Who do you think is winning the cyber war?

  • The good guys

    Votes: 5 29.4%
  • The bad guys

    Votes: 12 70.6%
  • Total voters
    17

SpartacusSystem

Level 6
Verified
Cybersecurity as an industry has grown by more than 20 times in the past decade, going from being valued at $3.5 billion in 2004 to $78 billion in 2015. Experts say this is only the beginning, and project it will nearly double its value again by 2017. Yet the digital world has never been less secure. The number of hacks, ranging in size and scope — from ransomware attacks that can be carried out by the most novice cybercriminal to sophisticated breaches carried out by state-sponsored hackers in China, Russia, and the United States — increase each year. And despite the rapid increase in dollars spent on cybersecurity, those leading the industry say they are less sure than ever if it is even possible to stop the attackers.
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hjlbx

Bad guys are always on the offense; good guys are always on the defense.

Sooner or later, this "cyberwar" is going to result in the launching of missiles, dropping of bombs, sinking of ships, blasting of planes out of the sky, and armies advancing across borders.

It is just a matter of time - perhaps not any time soon, but it will happen eventually... one way or another.
 

SpartacusSystem

Level 6
Verified
Bad guys are always on the offense; good guys are always on the defense.

Sooner or later, this "cyberwar" is going to result in the launching of missiles, dropping of bombs, sinking of ships, blasting of planes out of the sky, and armies advancing across borders.

It is just a matter of time - perhaps not any time soon, but it will happen eventually... one way or another.
Would you say there's a massive imbalance between the good guys and bad guys? What's your opinion on the guys that are in the middle, like the grey hats? Were do they stand in all of this?
 
H

hjlbx

Would you say there's a massive imbalance between the good guys and bad guys? What's your opinion on the guys that are in the middle, like the grey hats? Were do they stand in all of this?
There is a massive imbalance - not in numbers of hackers vs governments, but instead in sheer inability for governments to cope.

You have nation-states with many trillions of dollars - and a complete willingness to throw billions upon billions of dollars at the problem along with the support of tens of thousands of personnel assigned to tackling the matter - who still cannot stem the tide of the never-ending onslaught.

On top of it all, just look at how desperate all these governments truly are in dealing with the issue - they are taking away all citizen's constitutional rights because they cannot cope.

@SpartacusSystem - I know you are from UK. UK is No. 1 in this matter - much more so than the Soviets of days old. My government - the U.S. - has cooperated very closely with the UK and now is building a model that is essentially the same as the UK's.

There is a long history of this that extends all the way back -- beginning with WW1.

I personally don't care if the US wants to put agents in my draws and socks - as I have nothing to hide - but it is uncomfortable and annoying to share such space... :D it's the principle of the matter. "Don't Tread on Me... as I haven't given you any reason to do so -- so bugger off... !"
 
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hjlbx

Like the man implied on TV... "Viceland" cyberwar series... "Four guys being bold... .... .... royally screwed over the 3 most (militarily) powerful nations on the face of the Earth."

The moral of the story... military might means nothing in this cyberwar - but that military might will no doubt be flexed and\or actually used to try and end it. I think it will not work...

And who is really going to be the people that pay (I don't mean only financially - but also in terms of all the bad fallout) for the cyberwar - you, me, our neighbors and all the other billions of innocent people. It's the same just as a physical war...
 

SpartacusSystem

Level 6
Verified
Like the man implied on TV... "Viceland" cyberwar series... "Four guys being bold... .... .... royally screwed over the 3 most (militarily) powerful nations on the face of the Earth."

The moral of the story... military might means nothing in this cyberwar - but that military might will no doubt be flexed and\or actually used to try and end it. I think it will not work...

And who is really going to be the people that pay (I don't mean only financially - but also in terms of all the bad fallout) for the cyberwar - you, me, our neighbors and all the other billions of innocent people. It's the same just as a physical war...
Do you think there is a way out of this vicious circle between good and bad? Or will it just continue on spiralling out of control? Is there a cure for this?

With regards to governmental pressures, in the UK, there's a high demand for cyber security specialists so the government have pushed out degree apprenticeships for young people as there's also a massive age imbalance as only 7% of cyber security specialists are under 29. What I like about this scheme you can learn the key skills required, get paid on the job and obtain a degree without having no debt. It's something I'm incredibly interested in too.
 
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hjlbx

Do you think there is a way out of this vicious circle between good and bad? Or will it just continue on spiralling out of control? Can anything be actually done? In the UK, there's a high demand for cyber security specialists so the government have pushed out degree apprenticeships for young people as there's also a massive age imbalance as only 7% of cyber security specialists are under 29. What I like about this scheme you can learn they key skills required, get paid on the job and obtain a degree without having no debt. It's something I'm incredibly interested in too.
Of course a prescient career choice. Just a FYI... if you are the "real deal" and can obtain a UK or US security clearance - which absolutely ain't no joke to qualify for - straight out of high-school\A-Level you can earn 100,000 BP working for NSA or GCHQ. If you are REALLY the "real deal" they might take you on as a minor...

We are still in the early stage of the cyberwar. Another closely related field is forensic accounting - those are the guys that work with the IT security specialists and police to trace the money and collect evidence.

Things are not going to change until after the first global, billion-pound whopper or a war - whichever comes first. And I wouldn't count on any changes that emanate from either scenario in stemming the tide.

Eventually - years hence - you will need a license or some kind of government registration and all that sort of rubbish to purchase a digital device, software, etc.

All I see in the future is more and more crazy legislation, government regulation, life sentences, death penalties, etc - more and more draconian - to combat the unbeatable... it's just like the war on drugs.

Governments can essentially take a 98 % bite out of drugs - but they would have to destroy untold millions of lives within a short period of time in the process = unacceptable. Plus, the drug trade would eventually re-bound and governments would find themselves right back where they started.
 
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SpartacusSystem

Level 6
Verified
Of course a prescient career choice.

We are still in the early stage of the cyberwar. Another closely related field is forensic accounting - those are the guys that work with the IT security specialists and police to trace the money and collect evidence.

Things are not going to change until after the first global, billion-pound whopper or a war - whichever comes first. And I wouldn't count on any changes that emanate from either scenario in stemming the tide.

Eventually - years hence - you will need a license or some kind of government registration and all that sort of rubbish to purchase a digital device, software, etc.

All I see in the future is more and more crazy legislation, government regulation, life sentences, death penalties, etc - more and more draconian - to combat the unbeatable... it's just like the war on drugs.

Governments can essentially take a 98 % bite out of drugs - but they would have to destroy untold millions of lives withing a short period of time in the process = unacceptable. Plus, the drug trade would eventually re-bound and governments would find themselves right back where they started.
Forensic accounting seems interesting too! I can see licensing and registration taking place as well.

Do you think governments are tackling this issue of cyber-warfare in the best way? The cooperation with the US and UK you mentioned sounds like progress.

Are governments taking a 'holistic approach' to this issue?
 
H

hjlbx

Forensic accounting seems interesting too! I can see licensing and registration taking place as well.

Do you think governments are tackling this issue of cyber-warfare in the best way? The cooperation with the US and UK you mentioned sounds like progress.

Are governments taking a 'holistic approach' to this issue?
The assault is over-whelming = so you can see the desperation in governmental policies, ever-increasing governmental cybersecurity budgets, etc.

Holistic ? No... no one knows how to handle it. I'll tell you how they'll handle it - just like it has been handled for many years - subversive in-country actions\efforts to undermine governments and regimes. The whole theory being change from within... but the problem is that four guys living in four separate corners of the globe with no nation-state allegiance don't give a damn and are essentially immune to such tactics. So it will change much more to targeted manhunts. Back to the Mossad-style heyday of the 60s and 70s... back to the paranoid cold-war days of the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s - just without the wall.

The grande coupe would be military hardware hacks that cause real damage or a real threat - with the ultimate goal being taking control of live nuclear missile system(s), downing military satellites, etc.
 

SpartacusSystem

Level 6
Verified
Just a FYI... if you are the "real deal" and can obtain a UK or US security clearance - which absolutely ain't no joke to qualify for - straight out of high-school\A-Level you can earn 100,000 BP working for NSA or GCHQ. If you are REALLY the "real deal" they might take you on as a minor...
I'm sure I wouldn't have an issue with obtaining security clearances, I have GCSEs and A-levels too, I wouldn't mind at having a go at the application process maybe in a couple of years time.
 
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hjlbx

A government's inability to cope with serious issues always results in the same. History has proven it time and again:
  • Wars
  • Cracking down on its own citizens
  • Draconian measures
  • Censorship
  • Taking away of freedoms
  • Restrictions
It's always the same.

George Orwell here we come. Norse Fire rising...
 
H

hjlbx

I'm sure I wouldn't have an issue with obtaining security clearances, I have GCSEs and A-levels too, I wouldn't mind at having a go at the application process maybe in a couple of years time.
Personal debt that is too high is the No. 1 reason why people cannot obtain a security clearance - believe it or not.

The thinking being that if you have a lot of personal debt, then you are susceptible to bribery, corruption, enticement,...

GCHQ has solid recruitment programs. Working for such an organization means living life in a way that many find unacceptable. James Bond lifestyle is a bogus myth that sells theatre tickets... whereas the reality is you live work, divorce, have to be good at keeping secrets, etc. Some people can't handle it...
 
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hjlbx

Just understand what those people do... a soldier with a keyboard - and the full-weight of clandestine service requirements ever on your back. It ain't a trivial matter.

Civilian cybersecurity can be just as tough -- if you work for a defence contractor.

Working for a vendor like Kaspersky, Symantec, McAfee, etc is not the same. Completely different.
 

SpartacusSystem

Level 6
Verified
Just understand what those people do... a soldier with a keyboard - and the full-weight of clandestine service requirements ever on your back. It ain't a trivial matter.

Civilian cybersecurity can be just as tough -- if you work for a defence contractor.

Working for a vendor like Kaspersky, Symantec, McAfee, etc is not the same. Completely different.
I absolutely agree. I wouldn't mind applying for student summer placements etc though, it would be a good experience. Students, Graduates & Apprentices | GCHQ
 
H

hjlbx

Would they teach you enough knowledge for that?
The whole premise is that you are the "real deal" and they don't have to teach you anything. If you can manage to hack GCHQ all by yourself - or NSA for that matter - then the thinking is that they would rather have you working for them instead of someone else. This is how clandestine service deals are made...

Just don't do any espionage - otherwise no deal; only long-term jail time.