HarborFront

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#1
I'm thinking of getting one as there are cons in the using of my MS SP3 and MS SP4. I'm not saying they are bad but there are certain limitations after using them for about more than 2 yrs. In fact, being MS tablets, they do have a couple of pros that definitely outshine a laptop.

I would like some feedback on the model with core i7, 15 inch 4K touchscreen, 16GB RAM and 512GB SSD. FYI, I'm using it more for work and onboard gaming is not my priority. I hardly use the pen that comes with my current MS SP3/MS SP4

Anyone owns one or both of the mentioned laptop? Like to contribute your experience?

The specs for both are as follows

XPS 15 9560 High Performance Laptop with InfinityEdge Display | Dell

HP Spectre x360 Convertible Laptop 15-bl075nr | HP® Official Store


Below is what I have gathered from DELL/HP, reddit and notebookreview.com forums

Comparing HP to the DELL

Both have same commonalities

1) Both come with true 4K touchscreen and thin bezel
2) Both are about the same weight and size
3) Both the CPUs support hardware-accelerated AES encryption using Intel AES-NI instructions
4) Both boot up using BIOS and UEFI
5) Unfortunately, both the Samsung SM961(HP)/PM961(DELL) SSDs does NOT support hardware encryption since they are OEM SSDs

Advantages of the HP

1) Should be attractively cheaper since it's a duo-core
2) Looks sleeker and more aesthetically appealing in its dark color outlook with gold edges
3) It has better support for eGPU (like the Razor Core and ASUS ROG XG2). If I'm not wrong it is using the newer TB3 driver
4) It comes with a faster SAMSUNG SSD (SM961). Make sure you get the one which has a SAMSUNG SSD and not the slower TOSHIBA SSD
5) It has more stable INTEL 8265 wifi vs DELL's KILLER wifi (apparently KILLER just updated to a more stable WiFi driver - waiting more feedback)
6) Pen support
7) Its cooler and less noisy especially when playing games
8) Longer battery life. For work it clocks at about 8.5 - 9 hrs. (DELL is about 7.5 - 8 hrs)

...and of course it also comes with disadvantages

Disadvantages

1) Its screen wobbles more since it's a convertible
2) Its screen color accuracy is not as good as DELL
3) Its weaker dGPU means it can't play FHD games as well as the DELL
4) No external battery gauge
5) It charges using one USB port so it'll have one USB port less for use as compared to the DELL
6) HP does not come with many accessories like DELL's TB dock, fingerprint scanner etc
7) It comes with duo-core and lower speed RAM. DELL comes with quad-core CPU and higher RAM Speed

Unconfirm

1) DELL's TB3 port confirms output at 16Gbps (i.e. at TB2 speed) with 2xPCIe lanes. HP is still yet to be confirmed but looks like it can run at 32Gbps (i.e. TB3 speed with 4xPCIe lanes)
2) DELL's HDMI port is spec at 1.4 so can output only 4K@30fps. Not sure about the HP's HDMI port
 
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#3
BTW, PM series will not throttle at high temp than SM series. It all boils down to after sales support. If you aren't thinking of gaming, HP is good in terms of Portability and usability. TB3 port for connecting eGPU solutions would observe slight latency issues since PCie lanes are shared by CPU ,GPU and your NVMe SSD. For extreme performance using a port similar to AGA port in Alienware would serve the best if you are into eGPU.
 
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SHvFl

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#4
Don't do 4k screen on a laptop. Everything will be impossible to read.

Go see one in real life and decide if that is ok by you.

Also no gpu on a laptop will give you a good amount of fps to play a game at 4k so if you go with a 4k laptop thinking of games is not needed because it will be impossible.
 
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HarborFront

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#5
Ok, I supposed the HP 15-inch supports both UEFI and BIOS during boot up because the HP 13 inch (Kaby Lake) does support for both.

Anyway, I recently checked with HP and was informed that the Spectre x360 15-inch 4K would NOT be available in my country although there are other series and models available

So, no choice but to get the DELL since it's available in my country and with local support too

Don't do 4k screen on a laptop. Everything will be impossible to read.

Go see one in real life and decide if that is ok by you.

Also no gpu on a laptop will give you a good amount of fps to play a game at 4k so if you go with a 4k laptop thinking of games is not needed because it will be impossible.
If I want to play games on a laptop I'll go for a gaming laptop. There are laptops which supports dual dGPUs.

My comparison for laptops is for work but the TB3 ability to connect to an eGPU and a 4K monitor should be there.

BTW, PM series will not throttle at high temp than SM series. It all boils down to after sales support. If you aren't thinking of gaming, HP is good in terms of Portability and usability. TB3 port for connecting eGPU solutions would observe slight latency issues since PCie lanes are shared by CPU ,GPU and your NVMe SSD. For extreme performance using a port similar to AGA port in Alienware would serve the best if you are into eGPU.
AGA port on Alienware is a proprietary port. I rather go for the standard TB3 port instead for more choices of eGPUs
 
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_CyberGhosT_

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#6
If you have the money for one of those new, your best bet is here: Gaming Laptops by Digital Storm
Pre-fabs you can update only so far, a custom build is "forever" upgradeable therefore will last longer and
serve you better in the long run. I stopped buying pre-fab machines a long time ago ;)
Upgrade components every 3 yrs, and your investment outlives both of those options.
The 17.3" Harker would be a very good option
Here is a direct link to the Harker: Digital Storm Harker Custom Gaming Laptop


Specifications

Size:
  • 16.46" (Width) x 11.10" (Depth) x 1.52" (Height)
Weight:
  • 8.6 LBs with Battery Pack
Display:


  • NVIDIA G-Sync - 17.3 Inch (16:9) (Resolution: 1920 x 1080) IPS (Anti-glare) LED-Backlit
Keyboard & Touchpad:
  • Full color illuminated full size keyboard with numeric pad and anti-ghost keys
  • Fully programmable macro capability - customize individual key as hot key / multiple keystrokes in one key
  • Dedicated W/A/S/D gaming key set
Audio:


  • S/PDIF Digital output
  • Built-in Array Microphone
  • 2 Built-in 2W Onkyo Speakers
  • External 7.1CH audio output supported by headphone, microphone, Line-in and S/PDIF jack
  • Sound Blaster X-FI™ MB 3
  • ANSP™ 3D sound technology on headphone output

Connectivity:


  • 1 HDMI 1.4a output Port (with HDCP)
  • 2 DisplayPort 1.2 output Ports
  • 4 USB 3.0 Ports (One powered USB port, AC/DC)
  • 1 eSATA Port (USB 3.0 Combo)
  • 1 Headphone Jack
  • 1 Microphone Jack
  • 1 Line-in Jack
  • 1 S/PDIF output Jack
  • 1 RJ-45 LAN (10/100/1000Mbps)
Battery:
  • Removable 8 cell Smart Lithium-Ion battery pack 82Wh
Internal Camera:
  • Built-in 2.0M FHD Video Camera
Networking:


  • Killer DoubleShot™ Pro (Integrated Killer Gigabit Ethernet LAN + Killer Dual Band Wireless-AC 1535 + Bluetooth, M.2) with Smart Teaming
CPU Chipset:
  • Intel Z97 Express Chipset
Security:


  • Kensington® Lock
  • Integrated Fingerprint Reader
 
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HarborFront

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#7
@_CyberGhosT_

Thanks

But I need a laptop to carry around for work. 17.3 inch 8.6 lbs is just too heavy to lug around

Gaming is not important for me. The important thing is the provision of TB3 must be there for more eGPU compatibility in the event if gaming is required.
 
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#8
Gaming is not important for me. The important thing is the provision of TB3 must be there for more eGPU compatibility in the event if gaming is required.
You can add 1070,1080 Pascal GPUs with 10-15% loss in FPS and still game @60 fps. TB3 will observe huge latency and bandwidth issues with 1080 Ti. Yes, you can use Razer core and other eGPU solutions because a new firmware added the functionality to minimise latency and other issues from Dell.
 

HarborFront

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#9
You can add 1070,1080 Pascal GPUs with 10-15% loss in FPS and still game @60 fps. TB3 will observe huge latency and bandwidth issues with 1080 Ti. Yes, you can use Razer core and other eGPU solutions because a new firmware added the functionality to minimise latency and other issues from Dell.
From the threads below

Dell XPS 15 9560 + Asus ROG XG Station 2 = a tragic love sto...
How much bandwidth overhead does Optimus/X-connect accelerat...
https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?90858-Asus-ROG-XG-Station-2-my-experiences

There's encouraging effort to make the DELL XPS 15 9560 (with an older 1575 TB3 driver) to work with the ASUS ROG XG2 eGPU (comes with newer TI83 TB3 driver). Connection of the DELL to the RAZOR CORE eGPU is no issue.

Also, mentioned is that connection of the DELL via the eGPU to an external monitor does not affect the TB3 bandwidth hugely and, hence, fps of the games. The only concern is when you route the eGPU back to the DELL's 4K screen to play games then there's significant drop in bandwidth throughput affecting the fps of the games. That's where having 2x vs 4x PCIe lanes makes the difference. Of course any eGPU will have some frame drops as compared to playing games on a desktop PC

Anyway, if you really want to enjoy playing 4K games via an eGPU then have an external 4K monitor, say 32 inch, would give a larger picture with richer and better experience than using that small 15 inch 4K screen of the DELL, right?

For me

Work is with the DELL
Gaming will be DELL --> eGPU --> 4K monitor
 
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Vasudev

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#10
From the threads below

Dell XPS 15 9560 + Asus ROG XG Station 2 = a tragic love sto...
How much bandwidth overhead does Optimus/X-connect accelerat...
https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?90858-Asus-ROG-XG-Station-2-my-experiences

There's encouraging effort to make the DELL XPS 15 9560 (with an older 1575 TB3 driver) to work with the ASUS ROG XG2 eGPU (comes with newer TI83 TB3 driver). Connection of the DELL to the RAZOR CORE eGPU is no issue.

Also, mentioned is that connection of the DELL via the eGPU to an external monitor does not affect the TB3 bandwidth hugely and, hence, fps of the games. The only concern is when you route the eGPU back to the DELL's 4K screen to play games then there's significant drop in bandwidth throughput affecting the fps of the games. That's where having 2x vs 4x PCIe lanes makes the difference. Of course any eGPU will have some frame drops as compared to playing games on a desktop PC

Anyway, if you really want to enjoy playing 4K games via an eGPU then have an external 4K monitor, say 32 inch, would give a larger picture with richer and better experience than using that small 15 inch 4K screen of the DELL, right?

For me

Work is with the DELL
Gaming will be DELL --> eGPU --> 4K monitor
Connecting your monitor via eGPU will get rid off optimus. Good Luck in balancing work & play.
 

HarborFront

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#11
Ok, just got something new with the same spec to consider besides the DELL XPS 15 9560

It's the LENOVO YOGA 720 15 inch 4K Kaby Lake model.

Spec (incomplete) is here

Intel Kaby Lake 7th Gen Processor Quad Core i7-7700HQ
Nividia GTX 1050 GPU
4K IPS slim touchscreen
Supports Pen input (optional)
16GB DDR4 RAM
72WHr battery to give 8 Hr UHD operation
Comes with MS Precision touchpad (same as the DELL) and the fingerprint scanner (DELL's optional)
1xUSB Type C/TB3/DP, 1×USB 3.1, 2XUSB 3.0, WiFi ac 2x2, BT 4.1, no SD card slot, no HDMI port
HD camera located on top side of screen (DELL's HD camera is loacted on the bottom side)
Size : 364 x 242 x 19.9 mm (DELL is 357 x 235 x 17 mm)
Weight is 2Kg (DELL is 2.05KG)

I believe the LENOVO will be priced much cheaper than the DELL XPS 15 9560 for the same spec

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017...gpus-and-more/

http://blog.lenovo.com/en/blog/lenov...rsonally-yours

http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops...s/yoga-720-15/

This LENOVO should be available in my country since the earlier 710 15 inch FHD model is selling now. I went to checked out the latter model this afternoon.

I'll probably start a new thread on comparison with the DELL once the LENOVO is released in April/May later when I gather more info on it.
 
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Vasudev

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#12
Ok, just got something new with the same spec to consider besides the DELL XPS 15 9560

It's the LENOVO YOGA 720 15 inch 4K Kaby Lake model.

Spec (incomplete) is here

Intel Kaby Lake 7th Gen Processor Quad Core i7-7700HQ
Nividia GTX 1050 GPU
4K IPS slim touchscreen
Supports Pen input (optional)
16GB DDR4 RAM
72WHr battery to give 8 Hr UHD operation
Comes with MS Precision touchpad (same as the DELL) and the fingerprint scanner (DELL's optional)
1xUSB Type C/TB3/DP, 1×USB 3.1, 2XUSB 3.0, WiFi ac 2x2, BT 4.1, no SD card slot, no HDMI port
HD camera located on top side of screen (DELL's HD camera is loacted on the bottom side)
Size : 364 x 242 x 19.9 mm (DELL is 357 x 235 x 17 mm)
Weight is 2Kg (DELL is 2.05KG)

I believe the LENOVO will be priced much cheaper than the DELL XPS 15 9560 for the same spec

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017...gpus-and-more/

http://blog.lenovo.com/en/blog/lenov...rsonally-yours

http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops...s/yoga-720-15/

This LENOVO should be available in my country since the earlier 710 15 inch FHD model is selling now. I went to checked out the latter model this afternoon.

I'll probably start a new thread on comparison with the DELL once the LENOVO is released in April/May later when I gather more info on it.
FYI, Dell XPS comes with 99Wh the same as AW ones. So the runtimes would be 10-12 hrs for general use.
 

HarborFront

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#19
Its overpriced, for that cash you can get alienware 15 or 17 with kaby lake along with 1070/80 and AW Graphics Amp with 1080 GPU. Hahahaa.
In my country the Alienware 15 with Kaby Lake and FHD costs more than the XPS 15 9560 with 4K

Also, it is much larger and weighs at 7.69lbs. Definitely not for one who only takes public transport like me. FYI, I don't have the size of Arnold Schwarzenegger, ok?

The Alienware 15 is a gaming laptop and is not suitable for working people on-the-go.
 
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BoraMurdar

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#20
If it's going to serve you as a business user, are you sure you'll gonna need a 4K resolution on 15,6 screen, with a touch? It is really hard to read on 4K laptop. In my opinion, 1080p is enough for 15,6 laptop screen.
Zenbook Pro crosses my mind only ASUS ZenBook Pro UX501VW | Notebooks | ASUS USA
except XPS, Spectre, ThinkPad X1 Carbon or willy-nilly wait for Surface Book 2
 
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