Do you really believe that what you believe is really real?

[VecchioScarpone]

No please don't, you are having a conversation with people, it's just me that can't get my head around it all. It isn't intended as a put down, i can't get my head around most things, lol.

I did not take it as a put down from neither of you. The comment was meant to be funny, I should have add a "he he after the .
As far as, i can't get my head around most things, join the caravan my friend.
The main reason to zip it is that, my experience dictate that I may get caught misunderstanding people when I cannot have a face to face conversation on such important topic for me.

 

[cruelsister]

And there are generally different sorts of Beliefs-

1). Public Belief
2). Private Belief
3). Subconscious yearning for the Truth.
4). Subconscious Realization that there is no Truth

 

[mlnevese]

The older I got the more I came to realize that people will believe either what they were raised to believe or whatever is the most comfortable for them to believe. It's a rare person that will ever question their beliefs and when questioned about their validity will often react badly considering it a personal attack.

To answer the OP I'm quite sure it's objectively impossible to know if one's beliefs are the truth or reality. They may be consistent and have an internal logic but to objectively know if it's the truth... I don't think it's possible.

 

[frogboy]

The older I got the more I came to realize that people will believe either what they were raised to believe or whatever is the most comfortable for them to believe. It's a rare person that will ever question their beliefs and when questioned about their validity will often react badly considering it a personal attack.

To answer the OP I'm quite sure it's objectively impossible to know if one's beliefs are the truth or reality. They may be consistent and have an internal logic but to objectively know if it's the truth... I don't think it's possible.

Wise, very wise my friend.

 

[bribon77]

St. Paul said: that faith is, therefore, the certainty of what awaits the conviction of what is not seen.
There will always be room for doubt, but that is believing or not believing. can not be corroborated with the scientist, but if there is a historical archeological scriptural logic. that all can investigate faith is not blind. If it would not be fanaticism, it has logic.

 

[plat1098]

What's beyond the scope of any of my five senses doesn't exist for the moment. Why should it?

Perception and Truth

 

[mlnevese]

What's beyond the scope of any of my five senses doesn't exist for the moment. Why should it?

Perception and Truth

That's an interesting article that raises an interesting question . Is there an objective absolute truth or is everything relative to one's perception of reality?

 

[codswollip]

What's beyond the scope of any of my five senses doesn't exist for the moment. Why should it?

So that would include your values? Your morality?

 

[plat1098]

@mlnevese.

@Telos: the invisible bonds of the herd: your tribe, your nation shapes your morality. You'd have to dive into philosophical depths that maybe others wouldn't want to follow. Thoughts are ephermeral; the reality of the wood floor under my feet keeps me anchored while my mind is free.

There was this psychology course that touched on a study where a subject was shown a picture with a blue sky. The members of the "herd" each claimed the sky was green. When/if/how long would it take before the subject caved and changed his answer to "green"?

 

[bribon77]

@mlnevese.

@Telos: the invisible bonds of the herd: your tribe, your nation shapes your morality. You'd have to dive into philosophical depths that maybe others wouldn't want to follow. Thoughts are ephermeral; the reality of the wood floor under my feet keeps me anchored while my mind is free.

There was this psychology course that touched on a study where a subject was shown a picture with a blue sky. The members of the "herd" each claimed the sky was green. When/if/how long would it take before the subject caved and changed his answer to "green"?

Easy Daltonians heran.

 

[Transhumana]

@mlnevese.

@Telos: the invisible bonds of the herd: your tribe, your nation shapes your morality. You'd have to dive into philosophical depths that maybe others wouldn't want to follow. Thoughts are ephermeral; the reality of the wood floor under my feet keeps me anchored while my mind is free.
There was this psychology course that touched on a study where a subject was shown a picture with a blue sky. The members of the "herd" each claimed the sky was green. When/if/how long would it take before the subject caved and changed his answer to "green"?

Interesting article in your previous post. I believe those invisible bonds of the herd which you mentioned is what Durkheim calls collective consciousness. It's an unifying force shaped by shared beliefs and moral rules set to maintain the social order. What we consider as moral is determined by our social context (though there are some cultural universals like incest, for example) and what is morally accepted in one society, it might be completely unacceptable in other.

 

[mlnevese]

The relativity and subjectivity of morality is easily demonstrated. Gladiatorial combat to the death was once considered a normal sport, for instance.

 

[VecchioScarpone]

What's beyond the scope of any of my five senses doesn't exist for the moment. Why should it?

Perception and Truth

Trust not the past that sleep, the future that might come, live the present. Not a quote of mine, just read it somewhere.
We have six senses, that include the mind, which as you said in your second post can free you. Also can lead you astray, take you places and do some far out things that cannot be explained, but are documented.
You can do things far behind your 5 senses. Fly you wonderful, fly...
Don't mean to be a smart Alec

 

[ForgottenSeer 58943]

Interesting quote from the movie the "Truth Project".

"Do you really believe that what you believe is really real?"

Far from discriminating people by religion or thoughts, do you trully believe in what you practice? Can you really affirm that your thought is true and you're not living it by fear or just to make sure to get access to "eternal life", if believe so? Are your convictions so firm on your beliefs that you have no doubts and you give in to your faith or thoughts?

I'm wide open to hearing you from a logic robot point of view

Buy the Truth Project DVD: The Truth Project

As a scholar of the metaphysical, for me since belief is largely what formulates the reality delivered to is I don't allow anyone or anything to formulate my beliefs because in the end that gives vastly too much power to anyone outside of myself. I'm not prepared to relinquish power over my reality and free will to that extent.

That's not to say our beliefs actually 'construct' reality in which we share a consensus with between others. However it can be readily demonstrated that our beliefs FOCUS that reality into quantification by our physical senses. For example, have you ever purchased a new car then suddenly you see that same car everywhere? Your perception and belief was altered by the arrival of new information to help formulate the reality your brain perceives. That's not to say those vehicles weren't there before, but now they are pushed to the forefront of your awareness.

If you believe you are surrounded by evil then you will largely be delivered a multitude of ongoing issues that seem to reinforce the perception of evil surrounding you in this world. One can argue or choose not to argue if this formulation is purely physical, metaphysical or a combination of both, that's an entirely different discussion.

To be a true master of reality one must cast aside rigid doctrines, learned traits and educated beliefs and 'know nothing', then the true nature of reality will present itself to you. If you are ready to view it. This of course takes tremendous self responsibility because the realization that what you have delivered to yourself was delivered by yourself can be a daunting (but empowering) realization.

 

[Deleted member 178]

@ForgottenSeer 58943 how you doing, busy with DUHK ? (just teasing you ^^)

 

[ForgottenSeer 58943]

@ForgottenSeer 58943 how you doing, busy with DUHK ? (just teasing you ^^)

Fortunately, I haven't seen a Fortinet running 4X firmware in almost 3 years. Any IT allowing 4X on a FGT should be fired immediately.

 

[RoboMan]

Nice discussion you created here guys! Keep it up

 

[karthic1998]

I believe my religion i.e Hinduism and it gives me more peace and love others

 

[VecchioScarpone]

As a scholar of the metaphysical, for me since belief is largely what formulates the reality delivered to is I don't allow anyone or anything to formulate my beliefs because in the end that gives vastly too much power to anyone outside of myself. I'm not prepared to relinquish power over my reality and free will to that extent.

That's not to say our beliefs actually 'construct' reality in which we share a consensus with between others. However it can be readily demonstrated that our beliefs FOCUS that reality into quantification by our physical senses. For example, have you ever purchased a new car then suddenly you see that same car everywhere? Your perception and belief was altered by the arrival of new information to help formulate the reality your brain perceives. That's not to say those vehicles weren't there before, but now they are pushed to the forefront of your awareness.

If you believe you are surrounded by evil then you will largely be delivered a multitude of ongoing issues that seem to reinforce the perception of evil surrounding you in this world. One can argue or choose not to argue if this formulation is purely physical, metaphysical or a combination of both, that's an entirely different discussion.

To be a true master of reality one must cast aside rigid doctrines, learned traits and educated beliefs and 'know nothing', then the true nature of reality will present itself to you. If you are ready to view it. This of course takes tremendous self responsibility because the realization that what you have delivered to yourself was delivered by yourself can be a daunting (but empowering) realization.

You are making some very good points here. I particularly like the pass were you emphasize that, to be a true master of reality one must cast aside rigid doctrines, learned traits and educated beliefs and 'know nothing', then the true nature of reality will present itself to you.

 

[VecchioScarpone]

Nice discussion you created here guys! Keep it up

Thanks Robo.