blackice

Level 12
Verified
Just got the promo email for the new Gryphon Guardian. Looks as if it’s going to be a lower spec version that is more affordable, but compatible with the original. A good call on their part.

$119 for
1800sqft coverage
2x2 mu-mimo
And I’m assuming a less powerful chip
 
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Kubla

Level 7
Verified
I like this "Gryphon® Guardian will be mesh compatible with your original Gryphon" it will make it less expensive to create a mesh network.

I signed up for that 40% discount so I can test this out.
 

DeepWeb

Level 25
Verified
I hope there will be a way to connect it to non-traditional modems. Need it to connect to my mobile hotspot which does not have an Ethernet connection. :cry:
 

Umbra

Level 11
Verified
this kind of router are useless in our modern days, most people (in decent modern countries) uses Fiber modem/box which have proprietary IPTV and other features, not even saying configurations settings, that this kind of router cant handle... unless you still uses ADSL lol .
And what the point of a uber-secured router if the modem can be compromised easily...
Another hyped toy for rich people.
 

Cortex

Level 12
this kind of router are useless in our modern days, most people (in decent modern countries) uses Fiber modem/box which have proprietary IPTV and other features, not even saying configurations settings, that this kind of router cant handle... unless you still uses ADSL lol .
And what the point of a uber-secured router if the modem can be compromised easily...
Another hyped toy for rich people.
I've always considered the UK to be reasonably modern, though partially due to having one of the if not the oldest phone networks in existence the majority of people still use a hybrid fibre copper system called BT Infinity. The concept actually is similar to ADSL but gives a much faster throughput.

Another system using similar idea is called G-Fast (bit of a stop-gap) which gives around 350 Meg or so - Because the last 100 metes or so is copper a decent router could be considered a must. New premises of course are using FTTP (up to a gig) & it's also being rolled out thorough the UK but for now a decent router is worthwhile - I use a Gryphon.
 
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Umbra

Level 11
Verified
@Cortex I thought UK would, like in France, went full fiber (at least in major urban areas). Even in the south-east Asian country im living now, we have fiber. In your case, it should be worthwhile. So you connect directly to the gryphon, not to a modem first?
 

oldschool

Level 37
Verified
I thought UK would, like in France, went full fiber (at least in major urban areas).
Not even in most of the U.S.. Rural areas suffer the most. Some high $$$ demographic areas have it. It's coming here slowly and is expensive. We're basically living in the an evolutionary variant of a 3rd world country. We were unable to stream video 2 days this week for some as yet unknown reason. Like 1999 all over again. (Sorry for the rip-off Prince! :LOL:)

Note: The term 3rd World is outmoded now as many countries formerly dubbed as such have surpassed U.S. in some (maybe many!) categories. Transportation, roads, infrastructure, etc. here pretty much suck unless you have loads of $$$.

Edits: in italics
 

Umbra

Level 11
Verified
Not even in most of the U.S.. Rural areas suffer the most. Some high $$$ demographic areas have it. It's coming here slowly and is expensive. We're basically living in the an evolutionary variant of a 3rd world country. We were unable to stream video 2 days this week for some as yet unknown reason. Like 1999 all over again. (Sorry for the rip-off Prince! :LOL:)

Note: The term 3rd World is outmoded now as many countries formerly dubbed as such have surpassed U.S. in some (maybe many!) categories. Transportation, roads, infrastructure, etc. here pretty much suck unless you have loads of $$$.

Edits: in italics
Yes I llved one year in US decades ago, and have some US friends, the current situation, at least technologically speaking is so bad. Unbelievably Limited phone/internet plan, overpriced hardware, etc...

In Vietnam, I just pay a one time 10usd for 2gb 4G plan a day, so 60gb for 1month. Internet is unlimited. Phones are all sold unlocked.

Sadly in US and some others, people are milked for what they shouldnt.
 
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Cortex

Level 12
@Cortex I thought UK would, like in France, went full fiber (at least in major urban areas). Even in the south-east Asian country im living now, we have fiber. In your case, it should be worthwhile. So you connect directly to the gryphon, not to a modem first?
Not direct the cable comes in the house as a copper twisted pair, then it's filtered to separate the phone from the higher frequency internet, this goes into a whats called a fibre modem but of cause it isn't a modem. This then gives an Ethernet output that goes to the Gryphon.

I had a few issues as my ISP uses a name/password ppoe & the Gryphon had issues connecting until it has the name/password to the phone so I ended up connecting the Gryphon to the old router/modem combined output then I could add the name/password in the app & used the fibre modem.
I could not get a connection any other way despite some time, maybe there is another way? I did use the option to add ppoe (2 million times) but it never did connect despite using different phones etc? Though OK now - Still sorting the options out as only had it a few days but far far more secure than the TP-Link 2800! - I put ESET on max, no issues yet. Government are really pushing FTTP now but it will be a couple of years here I think unless you have £££sss.

Not many years a close relative lived in Florida they & still used more or less the same system as I have though speeds were dreadful & unreliable despite the ISP guys coming out, who just replaced cables that were OK - And just last year in California system wasn't good, hard to believe that.

Edit: Gryphon quite brilliant I feel :)
 
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Umbra

Level 11
Verified
I expected the gryphon (for that price) to be more flexible and have easy setup to be used as a modem-router.
My point above was you can have a ubersafe router behind the modem but if the modem is compromised (aka MITM), the router become irrelevant.
I'm not a network specialist so I may lack some technicalities, but it is how I see it.
 

Slyguy

Level 43
Yes I llved one year in US decades ago, and have some US friends, the current situation, at least technologically speaking is so bad. Unbelievably Limited phone/internet plan, overpriced hardware, etc...

In Vietnam, I just pay a one time 10usd for 2gb 4G plan a day, so 60gb for 1month. Internet is unlimited. Phones are all sold unlocked.

Sadly in US and some others, people are milked for what they shouldnt.
It's called market based pricing. It's the same with anything. Grey Market Game Key Sellers just by from low priced markets, then re-sell them. Russia, Asia, some parts of Europe, keys (and everything else is cheap). However broadly painting the USA as a place of higher costs is not only silly, but it shows a lack of understanding of the size and variation of this country. For example I can go to the ghetto and buy gas for 25% less. I can go buy a pack of smokes in TN for 70% less than where I live. The market varies by city/county/state in some cases.

Also, as a rule, American's have more expendable income, in many cases, a lot more. This also drives up prices. When the minimum wage around here is $16.00US an hour, and the average person makes $60,000.00US a year, you might spend a couple bucks more for a tank of gas.

In Vietnam, the average person makes $148 a month. A cell phone bill BETTER be $10 a month or they aren't going to be afford it. That would mean a $10 a month phone bill is 8% of someones monthly salary. The average monthly pay in the USA is almost $4,000.00 a month. So 8% of that would be about $320.00 a month, I assure you nobody is paying $320 a month for a cell phone in the USA. There are plenty of $35-$50 a month unlimited plans out there. So actually, it's CHEAPER in the USA because the phone is going to be under 1% of your monthly salary, not 8%.

I expected the gryphon (for that price) to be more flexible and have easy setup to be used as a modem-router.
My point above was you can have a ubersafe router behind the modem but if the modem is compromised (aka MITM), the router become irrelevant.
I'm not a network specialist so I may lack some technicalities, but it is how I see it.
It doesn't work that way. Also developing a modem/router combination yields a product that generally doesn't sell well and offers little in the way of enhanced security. The purpose of a router is to NAT traffic. Traffic behind a NAT isn't vulnerable to traffic in front of a modem as the modem has no capability to render visibility on the traffic as it is passing raw tables (CMTS) and (PAT) via the cable modems. Modem/Router combinations don't perform security in the modem PAT/CMTS, they perform it after it is handed off to the NAT device on the secondary board.

No router is going to protect you from a pre-modem compromise such as quantum injections (real MiTM) anyway. Even a top end Fortinet or Cisco is only going to reduce the occurrences through TCP rejection systems.

The point of the Gryphon is to make a router hardened against all assaults, and to protect the nat devices behind the router as well as to ensure traffic is clean, not to mention best in-class parental controls and other aspects. Also Gryphon works great behind Fiber. Mine sits right behind an ONT/ONU without any issue and pushes Gig through without a problem.
 

Umbra

Level 11
Verified
It's called market based pricing. It's the same with anything. Grey Market Game Key Sellers just by from low priced markets, then re-sell them. Russia, Asia, some parts of Europe, keys (and everything else is cheap). However broadly painting the USA as a place of higher costs is not only silly, but it shows a lack of understanding of the size and variation of this country. For example I can go to the ghetto and buy gas for 25% less. I can go buy a pack of smokes in TN for 70% less than where I live. The market varies by city/county/state in some cases.
I don't talk about necessary items like food, gas, etc... I. Talk about technology based stuff. How come in USA, from what I was told, you can't even have a unlimited internet fiber plan?



In Vietnam, the average person makes $148 a month. A cell phone bill BETTER be $10 a month or they aren't going to be afford it. That would mean a $10 a month phone bill is 8% of someones monthly salary. The average monthly pay in the USA is almost $4,000.00 a month. So 8% of that would be about $320.00 a month, I assure you nobody is paying $320 a month for a cell phone in the USA. There are plenty of $35-$50 a month unlimited plans out there. So actually, it's CHEAPER in the USA because the phone is going to be under 1% of your monthly salary, not 8%.
10$ is what i pay because I can afford it. most people uses prepaid cards for calls or datas, average price for 4g datas is 3$ for 9gb a month. You can even find cheaper. So since almost everybody in Vietnam has a smartphone (except in poor rural areas) they don't even need internet at home.
In France, not a cheap country, average 4g phone plan is 20euros a month for 60gb and unlimited calls. Way cheaper than in US i believe, That is what I meant by US people being "milked" .
I don't talk about primary necessities like food or gas which is probably cheaper than everywhere because USA is producing them. I talk about technology stuff/services which I observe are often more expensive.


It doesn't work that way. Also developing a modem/router combination yields a product that generally doesn't sell well and offers little in the way of enhanced security. The purpose of a router is to NAT traffic. Traffic behind a NAT isn't vulnerable to traffic in front of a modem as the modem has no capability to render visibility on the traffic as it is passing raw tables (CMTS) and (PAT) via the cable modems. Modem/Router combinations don't perform security in the modem PAT/CMTS, they perform it after it is handed off to the NAT device on the secondary board.

No router is going to protect you from a pre-modem compromise such as quantum injections (real MiTM) anyway. Even a top end Fortinet or Cisco is only going to reduce the occurrences through TCP rejection systems.

The point of the Gryphon is to make a router hardened against all assaults, and to protect the nat devices behind the router as well as to ensure traffic is clean, not to mention best in-class parental controls and other aspects. Also Gryphon works great behind Fiber. Mine sits right behind an ONT/ONU without any issue and pushes Gig through without a problem.
Thanks for the explanation.
So let say the modem is compromised by a backdoor/MITM/whatever (sure rare but let say it is, for the sake of the discussion), what the gryphon or other secure routers will protect me and my outgoing datas.
 

Slyguy

Level 43
Thanks for the explanation.
So let say the modem is compromised by a backdoor/MITM/whatever (sure rare but let say it is, for the sake of the discussion), what the gryphon or other secure routers will protect me and my outgoing datas.
Generally speaking, it shouldn't happen. The modem really doesn't have any capabilities for traffic inspection or redirection. There are some that claim the router/modem combinations from ISP's are actually far more insecure than distinctly different devices in use for both of those functions. Most ISP's also have protection from compromise, some ports are blocked, etc. This is at the node level, since the only thing that can generally be done with modems is firmware validation, error correction on the CMTS and signal strength monitoring from between the drop (demarc) and node. The big boys (govt, etc) will have compromised the network way before this. (Groundbreaker, PAxfire, Quantum, etc) So they don't really care about your modem as they're pulling way more important data from the node itself, in cooperation with the ISP.

Now this is not saying there isn't a lot of bad stuff hitting your modem. There is. A LOT OF IT. Including cross traffic from other DHCP leases on the same node, cross node port scans, etc. Modems are literally pounded day after day and that traffic DOES get past the modem, then it hits the router, which hopefully is secured, and all of the gear is nat'd behind it.

That's why a locked down, highly secure router like Gryphon is valuable. Here's the traffic passed by my modem and intercepted between the modem and router over a couple of weeks. (and it also explains why WEBGUI Admin on routers is a bad idea)

Modem.png