Slyguy

Level 40
This is sort of a game changer. Phones are gathering intelligence even when not connected to data networks, no sim card and in Airplane Mode. They just keep scooping it up and the very moment they get any kind of connection that data is sent. This pretty much renders RFID bags less of a defense in some cases as there is still data being gathered that can identify you.

'It Knows When I Got Out of the Car!': Tucker's Special Report on How Google's Tracking You
Carlson sent Larson out and about to find out how much Google gleans from your cell phone, since many customers use Chrome or the Google Play Store or other applications. With no SIM card in either of two phones and one set on Airplane Mode, Larson took a black car around town. During that time, he was not connected to WiFi and only took photos at the cathedral.

Back at the Fox News Channel bureau, Larson hooked the phones up to a device that copied the data the phones sent to Google. He found it knew exactly where he was throughout the day. "It knows when I got out of the car!" he exclaimed, examining metadata in the report. He and Carlson discussed how complicated user agreements allow users to sign away their privacy "for nothing."
 
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Deleted member 65228

Laws on privacy should be stronger, and restrict what a company can legally do, even when disclosed in an agreed license agreement/privacy policy. That is the way all of this is leading to because some companies are taking privacy invasion to a ridiculous level, and breaking trust barriers between them and loyal, long-term customers.

I'll still use an Android device because I love them, but the privacy invasion can go to hell.
 

DavidLMO

Level 4
Rather alarming. Since it was Google, I am NOT surprised. Trouble is probably 90 % of users are totally clueless about this and clueless as to why is IS important.

And at least in both the case of M$ & Google they practically force you to set up "Accounts" that facilitate in tracking you across all devices and all apps.

I think that given Congress just recently not only extended but enhanced FISA, the likelihood of getting help from them is slightly below Nil.
 

Lightning_Brian

Level 13
Content Creator
Verified
Laws on privacy should be stronger, and restrict what a company can legally do, even when disclosed in an agreed license agreement/privacy policy. That is the way all of this is leading to because some companies are taking privacy invasion to a ridiculous level, and breaking trust barriers between them and loyal, long-term customers.

I'll still use an Android device because I love them, but the privacy invasion can go to hell.
@Opcode Couldn't agree more with your statements! I too have seen the issues that @Slyguy has mentioned above on our company phones. I'm not thrilled with it what-so-ever and the invasion on privacy appears to be getting only worse as time progresses on. Sadly, my end-users do not fully realize the amount of invasion that is occurring until I break it down to them in simplistic terms to the point that they too get up in arms about it. If more people fully understood what is happening to their devices more people would be demanding for a large change. Will change happen? I hope so! Am I optimistic? I like to say I am, but with Google doing the tracking....Lets just just it probably wouldn't change. Sad to say...

~Brian
 

Prorootect

Level 53
Verified
With this 'Phones tracking even in Airplane Mode' - why didn't they find Malaysia Airlines MH370?
- that disappeared on 8 March 2014.

Airplane mode from Wikipedia: Airplane mode - Wikipedia

"In a revised review in October 2013, the United States Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) made a recommendation on the use of electronic devices in "airplane mode"—cellular telephony is disabled, while Wi-Fi may be used if the carrier offers it. Short-range transmission such as Bluetooth is always permissible. The statement cites the common practice of aircraft operators whose aircraft can tolerate use of these personal electronic devices, but use may still be prohibited on some models of aircraft."
 

Telos

Level 14
Content Creator
Verified
It is spooky... Last December I got an email that well down in the text asked me to respond on some issues by January 10. On January 9 I got a pop-up on my phone reminding me that I had a response due on January 10. In a way that was handy... BUT... I had never set an alarm/reminder to notify me. In fact, I entirely missed the response requirement when I read the email. In a sense, nanny Google contextualized my email and created its own reminder. That's a bit too much...
 

Slyguy

Level 40
Rather alarming. Since it was Google, I am NOT surprised. Trouble is probably 90 % of users are totally clueless about this and clueless as to why is IS important.

And at least in both the case of M$ & Google they practically force you to set up "Accounts" that facilitate in tracking you across all devices and all apps.

I think that given Congress just recently not only extended but enhanced FISA, the likelihood of getting help from them is slightly below Nil.
Did you notice that now Google REQUIRES a phone number to activate accounts?

I've discovered a method to create unlimited anonymous, non-phone number identified Google/Gmail accounts. This method is quite simple, but doesn't request authentication of the accounts and simply authorizes it without a phone number. This is the method I used to create the 'fake' Google accounts for our Chromebooks. The method I found is to boot off a Neverware Live CD, which is basically opensource ChromeOS. Upon boot it asks you to create or login to a Google account. If you elect to create a new one it allows unlimited, non-authorized Gmail/Google accounts to be created. CloudReady by Neverware

So basically I 'pre-created' a long list of disposable Google/Gmail accounts using keygenerated account names.

x3Q3t7LU@gmail.com
qd7D1e06@gmail.com
t91UV4Ep@gmail.com

Etc... You get the message. This way there is no 'cross linking' by Google on various devices and it bypasses the requirement google now has to require a moblile device authorization for each Google Account.

So my phone might be: QC5n2t0Q@gmail.com while my Chromebook is E0x6yoyS@gmail.com.. Done deal!
 

Slyguy

Level 40
Airplane (Flight) mode is a software toggle. It doesn't physically disconnect the sensors or power supply.

Maybe a future Blackphone could have it, but I doubt it.
Silent Circle | Secure Enterprise Communication Solutions
4210 Fairfax Corner West Ave Suite 215 Fairfax, VA 22033
7134 Columbia Gateway Drive, Suite 150 Columbia, MD 21046

So they built a anonymity/privacy based, paranoid company in the middle of NSA and CIA central? Color me skeptical.
 
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Deleted member 65228

@Opcode and Lightning_Brian, we must not forget that we need to track all potential terrorists and criminals, as well.
Google isn't the CIA though.

Vendors like Google, Microsoft, Apple and others do comply when forced to do so via a court order however there has to be reasonable explanations for the court case to be won by the government agency, and they don't want to simply hand data over without it being enforced in court 99.9% of the time.
 
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Slyguy

Level 40
Google isn't the CIA though.

Vendors like Google, Microsoft, Apple and others do comply when forced to do so via a court order however there has to be reasonable explanations for the court case to be won by the government agency, and they don't want to simply hand data over without it being enforced in court 99.9% of the time.
I have no illusion of privacy with Google/Microsoft/Apple. I assume all of them are either funded, angel funded or joined at the hip with US Intelligence. At the same time I have a realistic approach to all of it without going overly paranoid. For example when possible I avoid using their products/services for anything I deem confidential, sensitive or private to 'limit' their ability to steal what I deem sensitive information. At the same time I treat these firms as firms, even though there are indications they are intelligence operations they are still accountable to some extent.

I'm under no illusion that their 'public' fights against turning over data are just theater for public consumption and have no substance at all. Apple's resistance to turning over data to the FBI was entirely a puppet show for the public to clap to and make them feel secure with their devices. Googles 'resistance' to turning over things is the same puppet show, replayed endlessly. Window dressing for the most part.

Anyone notice, each time all of these companies are busted they claim either; 1) It was a bug. 2) It was an oversight on their vetting. 3) An employee made a mistake. So when Google was scooping up WiFi SSID's nationally, it was 'a programming oversight'.. Yeah sure... Does anyone believe that nonsense?

I admit, I have an Android Phone. But I also will tell you I have Google almost entirely nerfed from that phone. Preferring third party apps, F-Droid, non-Google maps/email/browser, and strongly limited telemetry/permissions, in some cases down to the root level if necessary. Does this prevent 'all' spying on me? Of course not.. But it does limit what and how much is gathered. Chromebooks aren't a big worry, those things RARELY talk back to Google if you've disabled the 'Help Google with this OS' crap and tweak some of the privacy settings on it.

So in my case, firms like Microsoft, Google and Apple get the 'scraps' of telemetry/intelligence from me. The real stuff they won't even know exists.. Zero Knowledge Cloud, High Security Email services, third party encryption tools, blah blah blah. Go ahead, have fun with endless streams of junk data and scraps, you'll never get the real stuff. I can't stop all of the leaking data, but I can stop the important stuff from dumping and limit what they do get. That's my goal in the modern age - to 'limit' the disastrous loss of privacy until the MORONS in Washington DC all get hammered by their own tools/systems and start rolling it back to protect their own corrupt rears.

How the CIA made Google – INSURGE intelligence – Medium
 

DavidLMO

Level 4
@Slyguy ... "Did you notice that now Google REQUIRES a phone number to activate accounts?" Yep. And that sucks. Supposedly for MY security. Yeah right. Sounds good - eh? But NOW they have YOUR phone number to tie in with all your other data. Eff them.

BTW - Thanks for the heads-up on Neverware!

But, But, BUT!!!!!

"Google named as an initial investor, with more investors to follow"
 
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DavidLMO

Level 4
Google isn't the CIA though.

Vendors like Google, Microsoft, Apple and others do comply when forced to do so via a court order however there has to be reasonable explanations for the court case to be won by the government agency, and they don't want to simply hand data over without it being enforced in court 99.9% of the time.
Nonsense. That is just BS "public face". Snowden proved this is false. NSA is the biggie - not CIA. Security the 17 or so "security" alphanet soups answer up to the NSA.

Skim this.

NSA has direct access to tech giants' systems for user data, secret files reveal
 

Slyguy

Level 40
@Slyguy ... "Did you notice that now Google REQUIRES a phone number to activate accounts?" Yep. And that sucks. Supposedly for MY security. Yeah right. Sounds good - eh? But NOW they have YOUR phone number to tie in with all your other data. Eff them.

BTW - Thanks for the heads-up on Neverware!

But, But, BUT!!!!!

"Google named as an initial investor, with more investors to follow"
Of course Google is an initial investor. Neverware is a fork of ChromiumOS, which is entirely opensource. Neverware's purpose is to make aging hardware usable again. As such, it was smart for Google to seed them some money. It helps promote ChromeOS, it helps to get more people looking at the code to find bugs. I was simply putting this out there as an alternative method to establish Google/Gmail accounts anonymously, and without attaching your phone number to it.

There are of course other methods, such as Bluestacks or AmiDUOS or one of the other ChromiumOS builds.
 

DavidLMO

Level 4
OK. Gotcha - makes sense. Thanks. Perhaps then I will burn to a CD and give it a spin on my old XP (aging hardware). Presumably it would be a secure as a Chromebook?
 

Slyguy

Level 40
OK. Gotcha - makes sense. Thanks. Perhaps then I will burn to a CD and give it a spin on my old XP (aging hardware). Presumably it would be a secure as a Chromebook?
Absolutely. Also you can use it to create legions of anonymous, backup Gmail accounts.
 
Reactions: DavidLMO

Prorootect

Level 53
Verified
In fact I don't care about all these telemetry or other spying on me, my privacy settings in my extensions are absolutely enough for me. This is not the end of the world, I pass by to enjoy my websites of news, science, security, pictures etc. on the web.
Microsoft with its svchost. exe, lsass. exe etc army is already taking care of what we do...
Privacy does not exist - for our own good.
Let's calm down and enjoy what the internet has to offer...

I sent the new pictures for you in the NEW Stunning Web Pictures Gallery topic... thank you all for more than 104,000 views!

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

"When pollsters ask Americans about privacy, most say they are concerned about losing it. An MSNBC.com survey, which will be covered in detail on Tuesday, found an overwhelming pessimism about privacy, with 60 percent of respondents saying they feel their privacy is “slipping away, and that bothers me.”

People do and don't care
But people say one thing and do another.

Only a tiny fraction of Americans – 7 percent, according to a recent survey by The Ponemon Institute – change any behaviors in an effort to preserve their privacy. Few people turn down a discount at toll booths to avoid using the EZ-Pass system that can track automobile movements.

And few turn down supermarket loyalty cards. Carnegie Mellon privacy economist Alessandro Acquisti has run a series of tests that reveal people will surrender personal information like Social Security numbers just to get their hands on a measly 50-cents-off coupon."
- from here: Privacy under attack, but does anybody care?

______________________

Bruce Schneier Quoting: 'The Internet is a surveillance state. Whether we admit it to ourselves or not, and whether we like it or not, we're being tracked all the time. Google tracks us, both on its pages and on other pages it has access to. Facebook does the same; it even tracks non-Facebook users. Apple tracks us on our iPhones and iPads. One reporter used a tool called Collusion to track who was tracking him; 105 companies tracked his Internet use during one 36-hour period. ... This is ubiquitous surveillance: All of us being watched, all the time, and that data being stored forever. This is what a surveillance state looks like, and it's efficient beyond the wildest dreams of George Orwell. Sure, we can take measures to prevent this. We can limit what we search on Google from our iPhones, and instead use computer web browsers that allow us to delete cookies. We can use an alias on Facebook. We can turn our cell phones off and spend cash. But increasingly, none of it matters. There are simply too many ways to be tracked."
- from: Schneier: The Internet Is a Surveillance State - Slashdot
 
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Slyguy

Level 40
Privacy still exists. It just depends on what level of privacy you enjoy based on your efforts to secure it.

Also, many people have largely moved attempting to plug all privacy leaks to securing 'important' things only because the effort to secure privacy across the board is so great that they can't or don't want to keep up so they focus on privacy for absolutely important things. What is important varies from person to person. Some people video family photos important, so they bulk EXIF clean them and drop them into a Zero Knowledge Encrypted cloud and call it a day. Easy. Their important things are secure, and private.

I sort of think it's been broken down into three types of people and three levels of privacy.

1) No privacy. These people just don't care.. All of their stuff is sprayed across the internet. They're largely hacked, compromised or totally exploited by datamining firms. Many consider these type of people idiots but they are just average joes for the most part that care about things like their blinds on their windows more than privacy.
2) Semi-Private. These people spend a small amount of time but virtually no money on privacy. They probably still use Gmail, but may use a more private search engine, maybe some privacy extensions and a password manager. They might even 'dabble' in encryption here and there but nothing serious.
3) Super private people. (same level as #2 BUT) They scrub the internet of as much as possible. Use privacy tools. Maybe VPN's.. Zero Knowledge services, secure email, maybe even alternative search engines. They think about privacy quite regularly, and it concerns them. They DO spend some money on privacy here or there.
4) Privacy Enthusiasts. These guys do 2,3 but also take it to a higher level, think about privacy almost daily, and utilize the latest privacy tools, paid privacy services and regular privacy audits. They also broach counter intelligence realms, actively working to obscure their activities not for criminal endeavors, but to assert their rights to privacy when possible.

Depending on your efforts, finances and knowledge probably depends on where you sit on the list.. Maybe you sit between two areas or something. Contrary to what people say it is still possible to have significant, impressive levels of privacy in this day and age. It's achievable with effort, money and knowledge. People do it every single day under your radar and you just don't know it because you not knowing is part of their privacy scope!

So we have some choices here.. Pick between 2, 3 and 4 or just throw up your arms, give up and be like a regular joe, enjoying ignorant bliss 'until' that day arrives when you realize why that bliss was a myth and can cause some big problems.
 
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