Whether this is even possible not knowing limitations of the forum software, or even desirable, as it may end up being a lot of work to implement and maintain, i still found the concept interesting...
Would it be possible to separate the main board into 2 sections, with a toggle somewhere on the main. The main, by default loaded board should be for new users/average users to intermediate. The toggle would lead you to the advanced section of the forum. Both should have their own security configuration threads ect.
New users/average users come in, and are immediately thrust into loads of software, and enthusiast discussions, further confusing them, and worse, many try to emulate the advanced users, causing who knows how much damage to their systems, as im sure most would be too embarrassed to state they did so.
So splitting of the forum into 2 sections would give new users a chance to come in and learn the basics, because a low level limit could be set to gain access to the advanced section. While this more then likely would be some work to do, think of the effect it would have on many new users and the knowledge that could be spread via both sections.
shower thoughts? I have only seen nightmares of this board
On topic: I can only see new accounts having some kind of posting limits to avoid trolling/ useless threads. But nowadays i can see alot worse communities on gaming side that are full of memes/trolling i dont think that even exist here...
You can see most of advanced people have tags like 'trusted' 'av-tester' etc. just take comments made from people with no tags as personal opinion instead of having full trust on them.
Im total noob, but i have learned alot from this forum...been lurking around for 2 months and im already at level 9( not bragging). What i have learned so far , i can use that information to help new people joining around.
I get your idea and there could be forum board for so called private discussion with some kind of requirement. Like there is one for malware testers and normal users cant post there, but they are allowed to read
shower thoughts? I have only seen nightmares of this board
On topic: I can only see new accounts having some kind of posting limits to avoid trolling/ useless threads. But nowadays i can see alot worse communities on gaming side that are full of memes/trolling i dont think that even exist here...
You can see most of advanced people have tags like 'trusted' 'av-tester' etc. just take comments made from people with no tags as personal opinion instead of having full trust on them.
Im total noob, but i have learned alot from this forum...been lurking around for 2 months and im already at level 9( not bragging). What i have learned so far , i can use that information to help new people joining around.
I get your idea and there could be forum board for so called private discussion with some kind of requirement. Like there is one for malware testers and normal users cant post there, but they are allowed to read
A section could be created that new users can only access until they learn thew basics and hit a certain level, this level could be quite low as to not suppress anyone there for a long period of time. I put emphasis on this and have came about this idea because of recent discussions.
An example...
In one thread, a AV test results thread where many average users go to peek at what supposedly is the best software out there at the time, one product scored well below the rest. While trying to point out that these are misleading especially for new users, the thought occurred that i should place that product on my machine for a full license year, to show that even though the labs state it is a poor product, that user with good knowledge and safe habits can utilize this and still remain infection free. Too much of the conversations are geared towards enthusiast/the highly paranoid and not enough conversations are being posted on the Basics, which not only new users need but long time members could use to refresh/ground themselves with...
It is just a thought, would love to see more input from other users.
Well, yeah. I think MalwareTips is a forum that is very beginner friendly because you get a lot of help at the beginning. I got help from silversurfer and Der.Reisende. If each of these two groups (beginner and expert) had their own forum, the other group would have the advantage of not getting annoyed and the second a disadvantage because it does not get help from experts.
Am I misunderstanding?
Every coin has two sides. Also, sometimes the guy with the Level 1, can be more advanced than the guy with level 30. Many posts have to be read to know somebody.
Higher levels would still be able to give them advice, if a section was created and new users directed towards it, like an introductory sub forum, where they are directed to rules and basics of computer security knowledge before being turned lose out into threads full of semi-to experienced users via obtaining a certain low level. If a user shows signs of understanding basics because they are new but above this, discretion would fully be upon the staff/moderator of that section to move them forward.
Many hop directly in as stated before, creating whats best threads, or jumping directly towards products like CIS when they do not fully understand basics. They also do so not reading forums rules... This could enforce both, also making moderation easier, as members can not claim to have not read the rules or know the basics. This could be modified anyway to make things easier and nicer for average users coming in...
I'm not sure I would agree with this idea because restrict access for the purpose of learning is the very opposite IMO. For example I seen several of the socalled advanced, experts and even developers that don't understand and can't grasp common basics and when those can't, I personal wouldn't lay responsibility or try to enforce that on beginners.
At the moment I'm satisfied with the layout of this forum.
All new signups aren't necessarily "n00bies"... I joined a hobbyist forum recently only to find I could not access certain sections because my post & rec count didn't meet their threshold. The sections I could access were of little use to me, so I haven't been back.
There are also lurkers who have in depth experience but rarely post unless the discussion merits their involvment. Those individuals would also be excluded under this proposal until they proved themselves.
Title says it all, was just a thought i had on trying to help new/average users learn basics. There is more contradiction in this forum as of now, that new users get lost and misguided from the very basics that make all the difference. Adding more and more layers is not the answer, adding more and more bugs/issues is not the answer, teaching them how to build safer habits is, just as it is needed in the corporate world as much as consumer. Unpatched systems and social engineering are the 2 most common methods of being exploited. Proper maintenance habits and safe surfing habits could negate a average users chances of getting infected expeditiously. While being enthusiast is definitely fun, do we not owe it to the newer less informed users to help guide them properly.
An example of something i have started spreading in the security configuration thread, it goes hand in hand with what my thought was when creating this thread. This is still as the subforum is titled, just a suggestion altogether, how it is taken and molded to something useful can be up to you all...
*Safe Habits*
-Knowledge: This should be the base of any good security configuration. Learning safer habits and utilizing your security as a "just in case" instead of trying to use many layers of applications to make up for lack of understanding.
-This should include the following aspects.
1. Be leery of clicking links especially in email or instant messages. Verify URL's, not only by manually looking at them, but also running them through URL scanners such as the one at Virus Total. If you are unsure still, the best course of action is to not click that link.
Bookmark important sites: A misspelled address could take you to a false site that mirrors the site you intended to go to. A book marked address will take you to the same site every time.
Passwords: In general you would be better off utilizing one of the many password managers, but as it often sometimes is, most average users do not, or can not, so keep this little bit of information in mind if this is the case.
Do not use the same password for all sites, if you are limited on what you can remember then please make sure to be careful and not use the same password for any of the sites you frequent as the ones you use for your email. If the site is to be breached, you would not want them to gain access to your email via same used passwords. Passwords should be strong, hard to guess or crack, password managers all have generators built in for building and storing strong passwords.
2. Updates/Patches:
Run maintenance on your system as you would a vehicle, consider it preventive maintenance. Always make sure to keep your system and applications patched. These patches and updates are for a good reason, they are plugging holes in your surface of attack. While i recommend keeping patched always, i would also state to do your research on certain updates for the OS/drivers/applications before applying, make sure there is not a fresh set of new bugs to contend with that are worse then what they are patching, this happens more often then most realize.
If you limit the amount of 3rd party applications on your system, you also limit the time doing maintenance, you limit the amount of freshly introduced bugs, and you keep your surface of attack smaller, and in the end, your machine will thank you for it by running better and being more enjoyable.
3. Back ups:
This is more important then security. No security out there can achieve 100% protection, if they could, they would already have a monopoly on the market and would have run all others out of business. Prepare for the worst, strive for the best.
Personal items are of the utmost important files on your system, once lost, they can not be replaced. Backing up externally or into the cloud "both recommended by me", so as to ensure you always have a copy of it obtainable. If something were to happen, you lose nothing this way, and can start freshly if needed.
Using images to create snapshots of your system works well for those who neither have the knowledge or time to repair/wipe a system. Windows has a built in option, although there are 3rd party options. It is a good idea also to keep on hand Microsofts media creation tool burnt to a flash drive, updated when needed. With this you can run repairs or wipe the system and build it from a clean install, which after a nasty infection, is always recommended to ensure you have eradicated the issue.
4. Security:
It has always been recommended for users to try applications for themselves. These products all have trials "most of them anyway", for this very reason. Test drive them for a couple weeks, does it fit your uses, is it running ok on your system and resources, are you comfortable with the settings and layout to get around and adjust it as necessary.
Learning the product is recommended here. Most throw them on with default settings and never venture in to settings to realize there is much more then meets the eye. Google search is handy for learning these, as are the manuals most of the products companies produce and are freely accessible. Watching youtube videos of a product will not help you decide what is best for you. You need to experience the product and settings to fully grasp it.
Understand you are a home user, and you are not targeted like corporations and businesses. The chances of you seeing sophisticated attacks and malware on that level are quite slim. There is no need for paranoia when you cover your basics, keep everything patched, backed up, use caution/safe habits when surfing.
Be careful what you divulge to websites "personal information", these as seen in the news are not as secure as they should be, once your information is in someone else's hands, anything can happen to it.
Know that the more security you pile on your system, the chances of incompatibilities/bugs arise and issues may occur. Finding a proper balance of application to knowledge ratio is fully recommended.
Title says it all, was just a thought i had on trying to help new/average users learn basics. There is more contradiction in this forum as of now, that new users get lost and misguided from the very basics that make all the difference. Adding more and more layers is not the answer, adding more and more bugs/issues is not the answer, teaching them how to build safer habits is, just as it is needed in the corporate world as much as consumer. Unpatched systems and social engineering are the 2 most common methods of being exploited. Proper maintenance habits and safe surfing habits could negate a average users chances of getting infected expeditiously. While being enthusiast is definitely fun, do we not owe it to the newer less informed users to help guide them properly.
An example of something i have started spreading in the security configuration thread, it goes hand in hand with what my thought was when creating this thread. This is still as the subforum is titled, just a suggestion altogether, how it is taken and molded to something useful can be up to you all...
*Safe Habits*
-Knowledge: This should be the base of any good security configuration. Learning safer habits and utilizing your security as a "just in case" instead of trying to use many layers of applications to make up for lack of understanding.
-This should include the following aspects.
1. Be leery of clicking links especially in email or instant messages. Verify URL's, not only by manually looking at them, but also running them through URL scanners such as the one at Virus Total. If you are unsure still, the best course of action is to not click that link.
Bookmark important sites: A misspelled address could take you to a false site that mirrors the site you intended to go to. A book marked address will take you to the same site every time.
Passwords: In general you would be better off utilizing one of the many password managers, but as it often sometimes is, most average users do not, or can not, so keep this little bit of information in mind if this is the case.
Do not use the same password for all sites, if you are limited on what you can remember then please make sure to be careful and not use the same password for any of the sites you frequent as the ones you use for your email. If the site is to be breached, you would not want them to gain access to your email via same used passwords. Passwords should be strong, hard to guess or crack, password managers all have generators built in for building and storing strong passwords.
2. Updates/Patches:
Run maintenance on your system as you would a vehicle, consider it preventive maintenance. Always make sure to keep your system and applications patched. These patches and updates are for a good reason, they are plugging holes in your surface of attack. While i recommend keeping patched always, i would also state to do your research on certain updates for the OS/drivers/applications before applying, make sure there is not a fresh set of new bugs to contend with that are worse then what they are patching, this happens more often then most realize.
If you limit the amount of 3rd party applications on your system, you also limit the time doing maintenance, you limit the amount of freshly introduced bugs, and you keep your surface of attack smaller, and in the end, your machine will thank you for it by running better and being more enjoyable.
3. Back ups:
This is more important then security. No security out there can achieve 100% protection, if they could, they would already have a monopoly on the market and would have run all others out of business. Prepare for the worst, strive for the best.
Personal items are of the utmost important files on your system, once lost, they can not be replaced. Backing up externally or into the cloud "both recommended by me", so as to ensure you always have a copy of it obtainable. If something were to happen, you lose nothing this way, and can start freshly if needed.
Using images to create snapshots of your system works well for those who neither have the knowledge or time to repair/wipe a system. Windows has a built in option, although there are 3rd party options. It is a good idea also to keep on hand Microsofts media creation tool burnt to a flash drive, updated when needed. With this you can run repairs or wipe the system and build it from a clean install, which after a nasty infection, is always recommended to ensure you have eradicated the issue.
4. Security:
It has always been recommended for users to try applications for themselves. These products all have trials "most of them anyway", for this very reason. Test drive them for a couple weeks, does it fit your uses, is it running ok on your system and resources, are you comfortable with the settings and layout to get around and adjust it as necessary.
Learning the product is recommended here. Most throw them on with default settings and never venture in to settings to realize there is much more then meets the eye. Google search is handy for learning these, as are the manuals most of the products companies produce and are freely accessible. Watching youtube videos of a product will not help you decide what is best for you. You need to experience the product and settings to fully grasp it.
Understand you are a home user, and you are not targeted like corporations and businesses. The chances of you seeing sophisticated attacks and malware on that level are quite slim. There is no need for paranoia when you cover your basics, keep everything patched, backed up, use caution/safe habits when surfing.
Be careful what you divulge to websites "personal information", these as seen in the news are not as secure as they should be, once your information is in someone else's hands, anything can happen to it.
Know that the more security you pile on your system, the chances of incompatibilities/bugs arise and issues may occur. Finding a proper balance of application to knowledge ratio is fully recommended.
I agree with everything you have said. Granted I'm still considered a new comer to this forum, but before joining I have been following this forum and learned a lot from the great members here. I would hazard to guess that all of us at some point were newbies when it comes to computer security and all went down similar paths, but since then we have all learned a lot and I can guarantee that our approach now is not the same as it was before.
I think illumination does bring up a very good point in that we need to find a way to help educate new comers/newbies without feeding into the same types of threads over and over. Maybe instead of locking out certain sections of the forum until a person reaches a certain level its up to us as the community to try to put a stop to it (in essence) and educate rather than answering a newpoll (a vs b thread) with our favorite product(s). I am not against a vs b threads at all, I think they can be quite useful to a degree, but sometimes people are just filling out the polls and answering the question with things like "x product hands down", that is neither educational or helpful. I find these threads often turn into fanboy-ism of their favorite product rather than it being educational. Maybe instead of automatically voting or stating what product we feel is best, we get the new comer to answer some basic questions to that we can help guide/educate them in the right direction.
For example:
Whats your knowledge with regards to windows and how it functions ( basic, intermediate, advanced)?
How powerful is your computer?
What would your typical day of using the computer consist of (read email, facebook, youtube, or download torrents, test malware, etc...)?
The questions don't have to be exactly like these, but I think something along these lines may help us guide them better. For example, if someone has very basic knowledge of Windows and its subsystems, then suggesting a security solution that involves HIPS and or SRP may not be the best solution for them, however if they are more advanced, than it can be a consideration. I also think we really need to start pushing people to make use of the trial periods, learn the program and come to their own conclusion of which is best for them. We all have different needs and uses hence why we all have difference security configurations, but I think we need to start helping them find whats best for them, not us.
Personally I really like what illumination has been posting in the configuration threads as it is educational and (to me anyways) forms a very good base to start when it comes to security. I think we need more of this! If we can instill good basic computer/security habits, I think people will be better off in the long run, compared to constantly relying 100% on software. I think listing off more and more programs and extensions in the configuration section of the forum again is not really teaching them good habits, its still creating a system where we are getting them to rely on the software rather than using their brain in-conjunction with the software. Don't get me wrong, I am in no way against people making recommendations on software, heck its helped me in my security journey, but I think we need to balance recommendations and education if we are to truly help them become more aware of how to protect themselves.
The level of MT is only level on MT and nothing more... and absolutely doesn't mean how in fact advanced/wise/experianced is newly comming user so I'm absolutely agree with @Andy Ful ul (#5) and @ticklemefeet (#6).
The propose of OP sounds like censure.
This is not about blocking users or censorship, how this was perceived from all my post above is beyond me. It was about helping new, less informed users before they are thrusted into advanced software and tons of it. It is about teaching them basics to help them.
How this conversation turned quickly, is one such example of what they face coming in.
It is up to you all, it was a suggestion, either like it or do not, no personal attacks need to take place.
With members posting in this forum from all over the world but in only one language there will be anomalies in translation, in both directions, big and small, I know you know this. You are well liked and respected here Mr. Illumination.
I think if we all take a step back for a moment and ignore the whole "reaching a certain level to access certain parts of the forum" part for a moment I think all illumination was trying to say (please correct me if I am wrong, I am not trying to put words in your mouth illumination ) is that we have to balance education of safe computing/surfing habits along with recommending software/extensions/setups, as its not always about software
Whether this is even possible not knowing limitations of the forum software, or even desirable, as it may end up being a lot of work to implement and maintain, i still found the concept interesting...
Would it be possible to separate the main board into 2 sections, with a toggle somewhere on the main. The main, by default loaded board should be for new users/average users to intermediate. The toggle would lead you to the advanced section of the forum. Both should have their own security configuration threads ect.
New users/average users come in, and are immediately thrust into loads of software, and enthusiast discussions, further confusing them, and worse, many try to emulate the advanced users, causing who knows how much damage to their systems, as im sure most would be too embarrassed to state they did so.
So splitting of the forum into 2 sections would give new users a chance to come in and learn the basics, because a low level limit could be set to gain access to the advanced section. While this more then likely would be some work to do, think of the effect it would have on many new users and the knowledge that could be spread via both sections.
This is not about blocking users or censorship, how this was perceived from all my post above is beyond me. It was about helping new, less informed users before they are thrusted into advanced software and tons of it. It is about teaching them basics to help them.
How this conversation turned quickly, is one such example of what they face coming in.
It is up to you all, it was a suggestion, either like it or do not, no personal attacks need to take place.
With members posting in this forum from all over the world but in only one language there will be anomalies in translation, in both directions, big and small, I know you know this. You are well liked and respected here Mr. Illumination.
I think if we all take a step back for a moment and ignore the whole "reaching a certain level to access certain parts of the forum" part for a moment I think all illumination was trying to say (please correct me if I am wrong, I am not trying to put words in your mouth illumination ) is that we have to balance education of safe computing/surfing habits along with recommending software/extensions/setups, as its not always about software
