Request An interesting thought i had this morning

[show-Zi]

In the forum where beginners and experts live together, I think there is a problem that the standard of 'minimum common sense' becomes ambiguous.
Even with specifications that make it possible to contribute to the forum after reading the blog first, I think that it will be a remedy though slightly.

 

[Deleted member 178]

The problem i see with it , is how will you differentiate a newly registered member being a noob or an advanced user?
a quizz? some questions? when i was moderator here, we ( @Jack and the other staff) thought already about it, and we discarded the idea, too complicated and the forum will gain nothing from it. Most people will get away from MT and go register to some other forums.
To survive, a forum needs active members to get more traffic, this is the reality, even if we don't like it.

If you put a toggle "noob" or "advanced", most noobs will choose "advanced" because it is human nature to see ourselves as better than we actually are, also curiosity will play a role.
When i started digging deeper in computer security at Remove-Malware.com , do you think i restricted myself to noob threads? no way , first thing i did is to follow discussion of advanced members to see what they know even if i didn't understood what they were talking about.
I learned the existence of various products (with HIPS, BB, etc...) then i start using them, learned a lot about Windows processes , it is how i evolved to what i am now.

not saying,lately some new members here are also knowledgeable members from Wilders who were looking for something new or different.
Do they deserve to be limited to some noob section ? No.

On many config threads i pushed the fact that "redundancy is not forcibly better security" , if people want layered security, fine, but they must do it properly; i even made here a guide about it.

Noobs need to be "oriented" to safe behaviors/security setups, but it doesn't mean they want to be.

If i really want to do something for noobs , i would restrict the security config thread replies/advices to "trusted" member and staff, so the new member posting his setup won't get silly advice from "not-so-knowledgeable" people.

 

[ForgottenSeer 72227]

If i really want to do something for noobs , i would restrict the security config thread replies/advices to "trusted" member and staff, so the new member posting his setup won't get silly advice from "not-so-knowledgeable" people.

A very fair and well balanced post

I think your suggestion for the security config section is sound. One thing I've noticed both before and after joining the forum was that every time someone new posts their security config, they automatically get bombarded with posts telling them to add these 5 extensions, add this and that and really at the end of it all their setup may be totally fine as it is, or maybe they just need to fill in a few minor things like a backup solution. Don't get me wrong, I am in no way against people recommending things, heck that's how I have learned about a lot of great pieces of software/extensions, but sometimes I feel like when they get bombarded with posts asking them to add a bunch of things, it could be overwhelming for them. Not to mention they may actually not need it.

 

[slash/]

If i really want to do something for noobs , i would restrict the security config thread replies/advices to "trusted" member and staff, so the new member posting his setup won't get silly advice from "not-so-knowledgeable" people.

While you're at it, throw out specific product recommendations entirely. There is a severe amount of advertisement going on in PC Configuration threads with zero evidence or justification for why certain things are being recommended. Want to recommend something? Make a list of software that the member can choose from. Don't outright force people to use a specific product. "You're using a backup solution that isn't Macrium? I recommend you use Macrium instead." There is no reason for this type of thing if we're trying to help people out.

 

[Deleted member 178]

but sometimes I feel like when they get bombarded with posts asking them to add a bunch of things, it could be overwhelming for them. Not to mention they may actually not need it.

Exactly my point.

Don't outright force people to use a specific product. "You're using a backup solution that isn't Macrium? I recommend you use Macrium instead." There is no reason for this type of thing if we're trying to help people out.

Here we tried almost all kind of software (even crap ones); so when a soft deserve its reputation as "top" product, it is obviously mentioned (like Macrium, Kaspersky, and many others).
Now the members have brains, recommendations are just recommendations but at least they will heard about the "top dogs" and maybe they will try them. Then if they don't want to use them, it is their rights.

Not so long ago, i asked about some privacy extensions, got lot of recommendations, what i did? i tried them all, get my opinion afterwards, kept those i found useful to me.

People recommend what they like, it is natural, but it is to the user to get his own opinion either by doing some research or by testing the said software. We are not you parents, we won't take your hands and tell you to blindly use the software. Only you can decide to use a product and if it is one many recommended, that is all good.

 

[slash/]

Not so long ago, i asked about some privacy extensions, got lot of recommendations, what i did? i tried them all, get my opinion afterwards, kept those i found useful to me.

That's my point. That luxury doesn't exist anymore, the list has already been narrowed down and is being spoon-fed to us. I'd prefer a large list of software rather than 2-3 being mentioned based on personal preference.

It also doesn't help that I've literally seen some people justify their tips with "a moderator said it was a good software". Think for yourself, or don't influence others.

 

[Deleted member 178]

It also doesn't help that I've literally seen some people justify their tips with "a moderator said it was a good software". Think for yourself, or don't influence others.

Which is understandable, mods here saw and tried plenty of software, unlike other forums, they aren't just policing, they all have serious knowledge in various areas; since im here, i can't remember any of them making bad recommendations

 

[slash/]

Which is understandable, mods here saw and tried plenty of software, unlike other forums, they aren't just policing, they all have serious knowledge in various areas; when i was mod here, i can't remember any of my colleagues making bad recommendations.

My gripe isn't with a moderator referring a specific software, it's with a regular member spewing the same thing with no knowledge of why that software is a good recommendation (other than a moderator saying it was good). If a recommendation is being made by a regular user, they should be able to articulately justify their recommendation.

 

[Deleted member 178]

My gripe isn't with a moderator referring a specific software, it's with a regular member spewing the same thing with no knowledge of why that software is a good recommendation (other than a moderator saying it was good). If a recommendation is being made by a regular user, they should be able to articulately justify their recommendation.

I agree with that. Hence my idea to restrict advice to those with real knowledge.

 

[ForgottenSeer 72227]

Personally I think the same can be said for A vs B threads. I am in no way suggesting we get rid of them, but IMO they become more of a popularity contest with some people not really offering any sound reasoning of why they would recommend that product over the other. I mean when you see comments like “x product hands down” how is that helpful? Also, can you please elaborate as to why you choose that product, instead of saying “x product hands down.” That’s why I fell like aside from people giving recommendations or feedback, we need to not only justify said recommendations, we also need encourage people to try it for themselves and come to their own conclusion, because what may work for us, may not work for them.

 

[Deleted member 178]

I mean when you see comments like “x product hands down” how is that helpful? Also, can you please elaborate as to why you choose that product, instead of saying “x product hands down.” That’s why I fell like aside from people giving recommendations or feedback, we need to not only justify said recommendations

It is in the rules, but people rarely read rules ^^

 

[ichito]

I can uderstand the need of some criteria...quiz or someting like that...but such talk is about members of MT...what about people who aren't members but need to read some content? That can be basic or quite advanced problem which user want to know and maybe use. Who is honestly able or want to limit information that such "passerby" want gain? If no it could be a paradox when user without logon could read more than after logon.

 

[stefanos]

With members posting in this forum from all over the world but in only one language there will be anomalies in translation, in both directions, big and small, I know you know this. You are well liked and respected here Mr. Illumination.

You just correctly commented. My mother language is Greek. My language is very difficult to translate correctly. I often want to comment on a number of issues, but I do not. Why some people are mocking. And I have written many times that my English is not good. I saw your comment and ι reply because I am one step than to get out of the forum. First, there should be respect among the members. After all the other things.

 

[illumination]

It seems many have over looked the part where i stated to take this thought and mold it to work. It is obvious there is a problem that needs addressed to help new/average users.

This, being a security advising forum, should be above all else pushing the basics, as they are the very foundation of security, without them, no amount of security will protect users. Everyone has focused so far on "restrictions/limitations" these words strike fear instantly and lead to the word censorship floating, which in turn generates heated debate, and the original thought process of the thread gets lost in this every time.

@Umbra, you brought a few good points to the table, but one thing over looked, is that limiting the ability to post advice to trusted members and staff will not fix this problem, there are many trusted members that are the ones advising users to pile security on their rigs that are essentially not needed. Trusted member status does not mean the member has good security knowledge, it may just mean they have put in time here, and not caused problems and been active correct?

I do appreciate everyone's feed back, a problem does not get solved by ignoring it, or addressing it just enough. Just the thought that it has been brought to this level of awareness is good for the new members that will be coming in. If all users here are really doing this to help advise others, should it not be done as close to correctly as possible.

This was never about hampering anyone's abilities and freedoms, it was about helping those that truly need it. Mu suggestions over the years were never to step on toes or to belittle anyone, i have been honestly just trying to help. I have known enough users outside of internet land that have been effected by lack of basic knowledge, and the remedy i found worked the best, was not advising them to use this product or that, it was to teach them the basics, of which i did for all those users around my area, they no longer get infections or into trouble now. Many of them can run any product and be fine now and are... I have been thanked by many of those users, for taking the time to teach them correctly, of which it does not take much to do so.

Once a person removes their ego, and realizes it does not matter who takes credit for what, or how they may look, if you want to excite change, these aspects need to be suppressed, and the facts presented, and allow them to grab hold. The resolution can be brought on by everyone, with agreement on what is best, all ideas could be combined to come to the conclusion, either way, something needs to change for these users, and trend set, raising the bar, teaching correctly.

The only problem is, most will fight change, as they are not comfortable with it, but this, in life, is the only true constant, change will always happen, and if it were not for change, we would all still be living like we were off grid, and technology would not even exist. As Technology reaches further into our lives "smart homes" should we not pushes basics, help users build solid foundations, as this in turn helps everyone.


This will be my last post here, and on this subject, i really do hope it is not like other suggestions and buried under excuses of why it can not be accomplished, as there are many ways to address this problem that needs it.

 

[Deleted member 178]

@Umbra, you brought a few good points to the table, but one thing over looked, is that limiting the ability to post advice to trusted members and staff will not fix this problem, there are many trusted members that are the ones advising users to pile security on their rigs that are essentially not needed. Trusted member status does not mean the member has good security knowledge, it may just mean they have put in time here, and not caused problems and been active correct?

I don't know how trusted members are selected now, but at my time, it was those who had some decent security and technical knowledge, gives good recommendations, have proper forum behavior and are helpful to other members.

 

[slash/]

I can't understand the point to discuss further the topic without to know the opinions from Staff...

There's 4 days worth of discussion in here. Members seemingly want to share their opinions on some matters, with or without the opinion of staff. There was never a guarantee that this thread would change anything to begin with, but more people are being heard this way through discussion.
Edit: Seems the post I replied to was removed very shortly after I posted.

 

[ng4ever]

This forum is still good but I been slowly seeing the quality dropping recently. I expected it to happen though. It always does once they invade it.

 

[Deleted member 178]

This forum is still good but I been slowly seeing the quality dropping recently. I expected it to happen though. It always does once they invade it.

It dropped even more than before, but it is logical and expected when a forum becomes popular. Noobs join, experienced members leaves because they stopped learning, some noobs becomes experienced, etc... It is a necessary cycle.