Yep, I'd used F-Secure for a few years and really liked it, then last summer when the license expired I decided to see how things went with using Defender. Late last year I started getting itchy feet/developed uncertainties about relying on MS for security (not based on anything in particular, just a long time lack of complete trust of MS). So I went on that same Scandinavian bus ride and installed F-Secure SAFE on this machine and did a detour to add BitDefender Total Security on another similar one. I like both so far, but F-Secure is winning out because it seems to be a bit lighter, surfing hardly seems to be affected by the AV at all. I agree with you, these Upnorth and Shadowra charecters seem to know what they're talking about, thank you my knowledgeable MT friends.