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Video Reviews - Security and Privacy
Those Nasty RATS Part 4
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<blockquote data-quote="hjlbx" data-source="post: 518547"><p>[USER=7463]@cruelsister[/USER]</p><p></p><p>If I seem annoyed it is because I am.</p><p></p><p>The first completely legitimate reason is that I'm old - old and decrepit. Live long enough... and it happens...annoyed and grumpy most of the time.</p><p></p><p>The other legitimate reasons:</p><p></p><p>1.</p><p></p><p>Your video clearly demonstrates what myself and others have been saying to BRN for a long time now - at least a few years - that Protected mode is vulnerable under certain conditions. The BRN higher-ups think Protected mode is all that is needed - and if it were not for us at Wilders - Lock Down mode would have been completely removed by now.</p><p></p><p>When it was made known that Lock Down was on the chopping block, there was absolute bedlam... a sloppy and disorganized user-revolt, but it saved the day -- fortunately.</p><p></p><p>2.</p><p></p><p>I have repeatedly told BRN that System Space processes can access malicious files of various types in User Space and the end result can be modification of System Space in unexpected\undesirable ways. The bottom line is this - if malware does manage to execute with AppGuard installed - it might, or it might not, protect the system. It depends upon which Windows processes are abused and what the malicious objectives are - and Windows processes added to the Guard list is not complete protection against system modification. Specific parts of the registry and file system are protected, but services are not - as far as what I have been led to believe; AppGuard does not protect against services tampering. So, until proven otherwise, I think your video is just confirmation of this fact; according to AppGuard policy, unsigned User Space *.dlls are not supposed to be loadable - even in Protected mode. Obviously, it just ain't so... and there have been repeated user concerns directed to BRN about the potential for System Space processes loading User Space files during system boot.</p><p></p><p>To top it off - if I recall correctly - a macro can be crafted that abuses InstallUtil.exe (NET Framework) to create a service.</p><p></p><p>The argument from BRN is that malware can only manage to execute under a specific set of conditions. Malc0der targets AppGuard Protected mode - and it is lights out. Quite a trivial Protected mode bypass - don't you think ?</p><p></p><p>3. </p><p></p><p>I don't know the reason(s) - but BRN is extremely slow at fixing things - even ones that, no doubt are, relatively speaking, easy fixes. If it were not for Barb, I don't think anything would get fixed.</p><p></p><p>4. </p><p></p><p>Getting BRN to make improvements - both in terms of security and usability - often seems - no, not seems - it most definitely is a futile enterprise. To get something as relatively simple as an export\import setting - so that the policy & settings xml can be shared with novice users and for user convenience - might as well forget it.</p><p></p><p>There's more to it, but that is the gist of it...</p><p></p><p>Don't be like me... stay out the formaldehyde... you'll have to forgive me - you know - I'm not so good with the social graces.</p><p></p><p>So thanks for your video.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="hjlbx, post: 518547"] [USER=7463]@cruelsister[/USER] If I seem annoyed it is because I am. The first completely legitimate reason is that I'm old - old and decrepit. Live long enough... and it happens...annoyed and grumpy most of the time. The other legitimate reasons: 1. Your video clearly demonstrates what myself and others have been saying to BRN for a long time now - at least a few years - that Protected mode is vulnerable under certain conditions. The BRN higher-ups think Protected mode is all that is needed - and if it were not for us at Wilders - Lock Down mode would have been completely removed by now. When it was made known that Lock Down was on the chopping block, there was absolute bedlam... a sloppy and disorganized user-revolt, but it saved the day -- fortunately. 2. I have repeatedly told BRN that System Space processes can access malicious files of various types in User Space and the end result can be modification of System Space in unexpected\undesirable ways. The bottom line is this - if malware does manage to execute with AppGuard installed - it might, or it might not, protect the system. It depends upon which Windows processes are abused and what the malicious objectives are - and Windows processes added to the Guard list is not complete protection against system modification. Specific parts of the registry and file system are protected, but services are not - as far as what I have been led to believe; AppGuard does not protect against services tampering. So, until proven otherwise, I think your video is just confirmation of this fact; according to AppGuard policy, unsigned User Space *.dlls are not supposed to be loadable - even in Protected mode. Obviously, it just ain't so... and there have been repeated user concerns directed to BRN about the potential for System Space processes loading User Space files during system boot. To top it off - if I recall correctly - a macro can be crafted that abuses InstallUtil.exe (NET Framework) to create a service. The argument from BRN is that malware can only manage to execute under a specific set of conditions. Malc0der targets AppGuard Protected mode - and it is lights out. Quite a trivial Protected mode bypass - don't you think ? 3. I don't know the reason(s) - but BRN is extremely slow at fixing things - even ones that, no doubt are, relatively speaking, easy fixes. If it were not for Barb, I don't think anything would get fixed. 4. Getting BRN to make improvements - both in terms of security and usability - often seems - no, not seems - it most definitely is a futile enterprise. To get something as relatively simple as an export\import setting - so that the policy & settings xml can be shared with novice users and for user convenience - might as well forget it. There's more to it, but that is the gist of it... Don't be like me... stay out the formaldehyde... you'll have to forgive me - you know - I'm not so good with the social graces. So thanks for your video. [/QUOTE]
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