Microsoft Support says Security Patches will not make your PC more secure!

Aura · Sep 5, 2016

Microsoft's Help Desk folks aren't even qualified to do their job, so I wouldn't take anything about what they say for the truth or else. I could probably apply for a Tier 2 job there, get it, and be promoted to Tier 3 quite fast because I know what I'm doing.

Personally, if I ever have an issue with my computer where I would need assistance in order to fix it, I would trust online forums more than Microsoft's Help Desk.

cutting_edgetech · Sep 5, 2016

hjlbx said:
You can get offline updates from a friend...

I'm not positive what you are referring to. I actually downloaded Microsoft rollup updates as suggested by someone at Wilders. I installed all the ones I knew I was missing, and the OS still reported that all the patches I had installed from rollup updates were missing. Eset Smart Security also kept informing me that the patches I had installed through MS Rollup Updates had never been installed. It became too much of a pain to keep up with what I had already installed. I also have Microsoft Office 2010 which I could not find rollup updates for; I don't even know if you can get them for Office.

It's been a learning experience, but it could also affect my grades in school. It's not worth the exchange of knowledge for bad grades. I have spent too much time trouble shooting this, and I have 14 hours of computer classes in my Major this semester. I hope i'm able to contact my professors tomorrow, and see what they recommend. Maybe I can get around using Windows 7 somehow, but it will make things more difficult for me since I'm not familiar with Windows 10 yet.

It would be nice to have about 2-3 months to play around with Windows 10 before having to use it for my Networking & Database Security Classes. I just started into this program of study, and all my classes are core computer classes for my degree. I only need a few more hours having my BA in Spanish so that's why I already have all my General Education, Electives, and Lower Level Computer Classes completed.

cutting_edgetech · Sep 5, 2016

Aura said:
Microsoft's Help Desk folks aren't even qualified to do their job, so I wouldn't take anything about what they say for the truth or else. I could probably apply for a Tier 2 job there, get it, and be promoted to Tier 3 quite fast because I know what I'm doing.

Personally, if I ever have an issue with my computer where I would need assistance in order to fix it, I would trust online forums more than Microsoft's Help Desk.

Yeah, I tried some online tech forums, including Windows Club, and they were unable to help. They informed me many users are having the same problem right now, including themselves lol

cutting_edgetech · Sep 5, 2016

Aura said:
Microsoft's Help Desk folks aren't even qualified to do their job, so I wouldn't take anything about what they say for the truth or else. I could probably apply for a Tier 2 job there, get it, and be promoted to Tier 3 quite fast because I know what I'm doing.

Personally, if I ever have an issue with my computer where I would need assistance in order to fix it, I would trust online forums more than Microsoft's Help Desk.

Aura, I just saw in your sig that you are a member of Bleeping Computer's Malware Response Team, and Sysnative Windows Update Senior Analyst. Do you know if they have gotten many complaints about Windows 7 not updating, and not being able to connect to Windows update server?

I have read a few complaints on Bleeping Computer, but I didn't take the time to see how many there were.

Edited 9/5 @11:20 pm

hjlbx · Sep 5, 2016

cutting_edgetech said:
I installed all the ones I knew I was missing, and the OS still reported that all the patches I had installed from rollup updates were missing. Eset Smart Security also kept informing me that the patches I had installed through MS Rollup Updates had never been installed.

That's a local Windows Update module\OS problem.

cutting_edgetech · Sep 5, 2016

hjlbx said:
That's a local Windows Update module\OS problem.

Yes, I think that's a completely different bug than the failure to connect with update server.

jelson · Sep 5, 2016

cutting_edgetech said:
I have been unable to connect to Microsoft update server for 3 months now, and when I install the MS rollup updates the OS still reports those updates have not been installed so it's impossible to keep up with what patches have already been installed. I have been having major problems with MS update since Windows 10 was released, but it was not until 3 months ago that I could not connect to MS Update Server at all.

It's almost unbelievable that one of Micro$oft's tech support reps would tell you that updates don't help make your machine secure!

And I'm scratching my head about why your machines can't connect to the M$ update server. But it has made me curious if you're tried applying the speed-up updates process that's been posted about at a couple of places. You probably have... but just in case it might help you... or others... here's what I posted elsewhere recently:

To avoid glacial waits for updating a fresh install of Win7 SP1 (base reference)

Download the updates below using Windows Update Catalog (requires IE unless you use this trick)

Disable internet access* -- unplugging your ethernet cable or turning off your WIFI

Stop WU service* -- "Start" > {type in} "Services" > {Enter} > "Windows Update" > {rt click} "Stop"

Install the following updates in order (either each one manually [requires reboots**] or as a batch)

KB2533552 (might be already installed)

KB3020369 - April 2015 servicing stack update

KB3138612 - March 2016 WUC update

KB3168965 - July 2016 Windows kernel-mode update

KB3164033 - June 2016 Microsoft Graphics Component update

KB3145739 - April 2016 Windows Graphics Component update

KB3109094 - Dec. 2016 Windows kernel-mode update

KB3078601 - Aug. 2015 update to fix TrueType / OpenType font vulnerability

NOTE: as of Aug 2016 Patch Tuesday, there's another update that looks like it needs to be installed too:

9. KB3177725 - Aug. 2016 Windows kernel-mode update

* If WU service is running and/or there's internet access -- manually installing an update will result in long wait times with this message being displayed: "Searching for updates"

** WU service will restart after a boot; stop it again after each reboot.Afterwards, re-enable your internet access and reboot. Windows Update should automatically start and quickly list all the available updates for your fresh Win7 machine.

I did this last month and it worked wonderfully well. After plugging my ethernet cable back in, "Check for updates" took less than 30 minutes to find all the MS Updates needed to make my fresh Win7 SP1 current.

FYI, the following was my primary source: Best way to get Windows 7 updated @ AskWoody However, but I couldn't document that in my post since the forum in question don't allow references to the site in posts (the domain name, "askwoody.com", was automatically replaced by "*******.com" when I tried to document my source.)

cutting_edgetech · Sep 5, 2016

I'm using the PC with the bad motherboard right now to make these post. It can only recognize 4 Gigs of memory. If I add anymore memory it BSOD's within a few minutes of using the PC, and the memory is good. I used the same sticks in another PC with the same MOBO using the same settings in the BIOS.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed hoping I don't get a BSOD anytime soon. I will also have to replace the Processor since I can't find a good MOBO with a 1366 Socket. It's a shame since it's a Core i7 3.2 ghz.

edited 9/6 @ 12:00

cutting_edgetech · Sep 5, 2016

jelson said:
It's almost unbelievable that one of Micro$oft's tech support reps would tell you that updates don't help make your machine secure!

And I'm scratching my head about why your machines can't connect to the M$ update server. But it has made me curious if you're tried applying the speed-up updates process that's been posted about at a couple of places. You probably have... but just in case it might help you... or others... here's what I posted elsewhere recently:

FYI, the following was my primary source: Best way to get Windows 7 updated @ AskWoody However, but I couldn't document that in my post since the forum in question don't allow references to the site in posts (the domain name, "askwoody.com", was automatically replaced by "*******.com" when I tried to document my source.)

No, I actually have not tried that. Thank you very much for the info! I will try the update catalog trick after the upper level support tech from MS calls tomorrow. I was informed not to trouble shoot my computer anymore in case I wanted to contact MS Support about the problem again. I convinced her to escalate my ticket, and expedite it. Their suppose to call me around 11:00 am tomorrow.

_CyberGhosT_ · Sep 6, 2016

Theres a lot of good posts here, but if you look at this realistically, Its MS choice its their toys and they are killing off Win7
so staying there like that on Win7 is asking for trouble and in your field of study you knew this (or should have) right ?
We will forever be at the mercy of MS as long as we are relying on their software, weather we like it or not.
I am patiently waiting for Linux to reach a certain point and I too am switching back, and trust me I am tracking its progress
closely.

PS: awesome avatar cutting_edgetech

Aura · Sep 6, 2016

cutting_edgetech said:
Aura, I just saw in your sig that you are a member of Bleeping Computer's Malware Response Team, and Sysnative Windows Update Senior Analyst. Do you know if they have gotten many complaints about Windows 7 not updating, and not being able to connect to Windows update server?

I have read a few complaints on Bleeping Computer, but I didn't take the time to see how many there were.

Edited 9/5 @11:20 pm

Nope. However, since these are fresh Windows 7 SP1 installation, did you install the Servicing Stack Update from April 2015, and then tried to install the Convenient Rollup right after? Not being able to find updates on a fresh Windows 7 SP1 install is a known issue now.

cutting_edgetech · Sep 6, 2016

_CyberGhosT_ said:
Theres a lot of good posts here, but if you look at this realistically, Its MS choice its their toys and they are killing off Windows 7
so staying there like that on Windows 7 is asking for trouble and in your field of study you knew this (or should have) right ?
We will forever be at the mercy of MS as long as we are relying on their software, weather we like it or not.
I am patiently waiting for Linux to reach a certain point and I too am switching back, and trust me I am tracking its progress
closely.
PS: awesome avatar cutting_edgetech

Thanks for the complement on the avatar. It has special meaning to me. It is the symbol Bruce Lee chose to represent his way of fighting, "Jeet Kune Do". I'm a former student of Dan Inosanto which was Bruce Lee's best friend here in the US.

In my line of work we have to know Windows 7, 8, 8.1, 10, and Linux Distros as well. Microsoft will continue to release security updates for Windows 7 until Jan. 14, 2020. Many Businesses, Hospitals, schools, etc.. have not upgraded to Windows 10 yet. Until Windows 7 is dead they will expect us to know it very well, and some of my course work is working with Windows 7.

I had already upgraded 2 of my PC's to Windows 10 Professional, I'm not sure if you missed that in prior post. I kept one of those PC's for my self, and I gave the other to my parents. The motherboard went bad on the one I kept. I want be able to replace it until I have the time, and "money" to do so. It has a nice Core i7 3.2 ghz processor, but it uses a 1366 socket. I can't find a good replacement MOBO due to the socket size so I will likely have to replace the processor as well. That will be a major strain on my budget at the present time.

I tried upgrading a few of my other machines to Windows 10, but they failed for two different reasons. One did not meet the hardware requirements (HP Laptop), and 3 Windows 7 machines never could connect to Microsoft's Server during the upgrade process (Sony Vaio, HP Desktop, and 1 custom build). I will actually need to call Microsoft to see if by some chance the key was converted for the Sony Vaio. When I ran the GWX tool it said checking for updates, but never did progress past that. This undoubtedly is due to the Windows 7 update bug. I tried using ISO, but that did not work either. I didn't have anymore free time to keep trouble shooting it.

It seems that Microsoft has surpassed Google as being the World's largest data collector with the release of Windows 10. IMO, the amount of data they are collecting from their users is ridiculous. How much more intrusive will they become. I can't wait for the day when Linux Distros like OPENSUSE catch up on driver development. If that were to occur I would prefer Linux over Windows 10 then.

cutting_edgetech · Sep 6, 2016

Aura said:
Nope. However, since these are fresh Windows 7 SP1 installation, did you install the Servicing Stack Update from April 2015, and then tried to install the Convenient Rollup right after? Not being able to find updates on a fresh Windows 7 SP1 install is a known issue now.

Yes, I still was unable to connect to Microsoft update server after that.

cutting_edgetech · Sep 7, 2016

Well, guys I spent about 2 hours on the phone today with the next level of Microsoft Support Staff, and she was unable to fix the problem. Microsoft has effectively made Windows 7 unusable, and I doubt it was by accident. I had no choice other than to ask for an extension on the upgrade to Windows 10. Not surprisingly, they gave it to me. I'm sure that's what they wanted all along. So much for their promise to support Windows 7 with Security Patches until Jan. 14, 2020.

Deleted member 178 · Sep 7, 2016

Tatatatatatatata you all are mistaken ! (except for @Logethica)

Indeed security patches don't increase security , they fix vulnerabilities; so you don't increase the level security, you decrease the level of vulnerabilities; it is totally different thing.

Using my favorite anologies:

- by fixing the failing airbag of your car , you don't add security; you put the level of security of your car as it should be.
- however, adding bullet-proof windows to the car is an increase of security.

So patching holes is a decrease of vulnerabolity , adding an AV is an increase of security.

And we know MS is bad for names , they shouldn't name them "Security Patches" but "vulnerability patches"

Ok, now you can all bow to me and worship me, because i close this thread with a single post

_CyberGhosT_ · Sep 7, 2016

Jack, come get Umbra, hes done lost his mind lol

LabZero · Sep 7, 2016

I consider computer security as a structure consisting of many levels.
User, security apps, operating system, security patches are part of this structure.
But we must see this structure in its globality.
If a layer is weak then the whole structure falls, but if everything works, then our security is strong.
The security patches are important as the other levels but no patch can fix a vulnerability that a criminal has discovered before of others and in this moment, he is exploiting with a targeted attack (APT for example).
And malware infects patched and unpatched system at the same time.

The statistics are not relevant when you are infected.

cutting_edgetech · Sep 7, 2016

Umbra said:
Tatatatatatatata you all are mistaken ! (except for @Logethica)

Indeed security patches don't increase security , they fix vulnerabilities; so you don't increase the level security, you decrease the level of vulnerabilities; it is totally different thing.

Using my favorite anologies:

- by fixing the failing airbag of your car , you don't add security; you put the level of security of your car as it should be.
- however, adding bullet-proof windows to the car is an increase of security.

So patching holes is a decrease of vulnerabolity , adding an AV is an increase of security.

And we know MS is bad for names , they shouldn't name them "Security Patches" but "vulnerability patches"

Ok, now you can all bow to me and worship me, because i close this thread with a single post

If security patches do not increase security then it would be a waste of time, and money developing them. The more vulnerabilities you have that can be exploited the less secure you are. It's really very simple.

The probability may not be high that you will land on an infected site targeting your particular software/OS, but try telling that to the unfortunate few that do.

Aura · Sep 8, 2016

It's funny because now I'm seeing reports on Sysnative and BleepingComputer of Windows Vista users that cannot install updates because it is stuck on "Searching for updates". No reports for Windows 7 users though.

Aura · Sep 8, 2016

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Microsoft Support says Security Patches will not make your PC more secure!

Aura

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cutting_edgetech

Level 3

cutting_edgetech

Level 3

cutting_edgetech

Level 3

hjlbx

cutting_edgetech

Level 3

jelson

Level 2

cutting_edgetech

Level 3

cutting_edgetech

Level 3

_CyberGhosT_

Level 53

Aura

Level 20

cutting_edgetech

Level 3

cutting_edgetech

Level 3

cutting_edgetech

Level 3

Deleted member 178

_CyberGhosT_

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LabZero

cutting_edgetech

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Aura

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Aura

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