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General Security Discussions
Death of Windows7?
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Fuzzfas" data-source="post: 854824" data-attributes="member: 4553"><p>Umbra, maybe you must start reading what others say and what the topic is about. You have transformed the post of a guy who says "I intend to stay win Win7 + software and i think i am good" into "Win10 vs Win7, which one is more secure".</p><p></p><p>In post <a href="https://malwaretips.com/threads/death-of-windows7.97916/post-854573" target="_blank">#4</a> , you conclude: "</p><p>so you basically confirm that you can't use Windows 7 without additional 3rd party security tools. Unlike Windows 10 which requires nothing but itself.</p><p>And amusingly , you are the one telling people shouldn't upgrade to Windows 10 because it is fanfare, blablabla... but rather tell them to add half a dozen of security tools to their Windows 7...Really? "</p><p></p><p>Why, did he say that he will use Win7 without 3rd party security tools? And you say that he is "telling people that shouldn't upgrade to Win10". WHERE? He is saying what he intends to do in his PC! Where did he tell what you claim he told? More likely, you came guns blazing to "castigate" the poor fellow that wants to keep Win7 + 3rd party applications!</p><p></p><p>Why compare softwares with Win10 default??? Why not? If he was Win10 + WD, would you have come to tell him what you did? Didn't you write, always in post 4></p><p>"so you basically confirm that you can't use Windows 7 without additional 3rd party security tools. Unlike Windows 10 which requires nothing but itself. "</p><p></p><p>If a Win10 user is fine with running Win10+antivirus, why one couldn't compare it with Win7 + whatever he wants to run? The issue here is to run Win10 or whether one can stay reasonably safe?</p><p></p><p>Built-in security, is good on PAPER. Shame, that it's the only piece of security, that any malware writer HAS to defeat. If i am a malware writer, i may not care about defeating Vipre for example or ESET, but one thing i know that i will have to defeat, is the OS. In some years, Win7 will be history and you will be still here in the forum praising how secure the only OS, Win10 will be, however, do you think that malware will stop? If i were malware writer, my main concern would be the most common defenses: Win10, Avast, AVG, Kaspersky. You present Win10 as some kind of security miracle, yet vulnerabilites come out by the dozens and what only managed to do, is make malware more sophisticated than before. It's common knowledge, but doesn't hurt repeating. It's like you want to rob from a house. And the house might have various antithief contraptions but the only one you are certain that is present, is "Win10 burglar alarm", which you can practice how to defeat at the leasure of your own house.</p><p></p><p>There is NOTHING 100% safe. Especially if it's in Windows kernel. Yes, Appcontainer, is a sandbox and as all things Microsoft, it has been and will be compromised (<a href="https://threats.kaspersky.com/en/vulnerability/KLA11318/" target="_blank">Kaspersky Threats — KLA11318</a>). Anything in Windows kernel will be compromised, if attackers have the necessity to do so, for the simple fact that they have a lot of time to practice if need be and it's imperative to always find a way to infect Windows. While someone will think hard before spending his energies to bypass something like Voodooshield, Sandboxie, etc. Because it's not worth the effort. The patch will always arrive too late for some...</p><p></p><p>My brother didn't encounter that, because unlike unfirewalled corporate computers, i had taken care of useless processes listening for no reason. I gave him a quiet, simple security setup, that would cover him. And it did. You brought up EB in the discussion, not me and we are not corporations. The OP sure isn't. In the corporation, one unfirewalled PC with filesharing to others, was enough to spread the worm and this will probably happen AGAIN in the future, because such is the nature of worms and Win10 will succumb to a future worm too. It just happened that they found for "free" the NSA tool, that had the means and motive to spend the time to develop it. Ultimately, if NSA wants to get you, there is nothing you can do.</p><p></p><p>The problem is, you use SRP and AppContainer in Win10? Fine. I don't know SRP in WIn10, but in Win7, i don't like it. Because it's too much work when i want to change something and too many clicks to change policies. So i prefer 3rd party programs and give more flexibility and more quick possibility to revert something. But why can't the OP be safer than most Win10 users, even if he doesn't choose your way and he prefers to use 4 applications and Win7? That's the whole point of the debate, which, i think has derailed from the topic's scope. Even fileless malware, still needs a point of entry and it needs to run code on the machine. One may find ways to block powershell, WSH etc and even AVs are more aware now. So why can't he be happy with Win7 + other software? It's the end result that counts, not the theoretical discussion. Theoretically you may be targeted by NSA's next gen malware and you don't even know it. There is nothing 100% impenetrable. Especially Windows itself!</p><p></p><p>And pardon me if i have the idea of some anti-Win7 bias, but i can't help wonder. This setup here is "secure"</p><p></p><p>[URL unfurl="true"]https://malwaretips.com/threads/mrbananaxxs-security-config-2020.97923/[/URL]</p><p></p><p>Mine is at "risk". [USER=76297]@poirotz[/USER] 's earned a lesson about "you need some many extra programs while Win10 can do all alone". Is his setup less "secure" than the "secure" above? Because he runs Win7? If we go and test both configs against 0 day malware, will the "secure" from MrBanana's setup fare better?</p><p>Isn't this the whole issue of the topic? Sure, he wants to run an overkill config. It's his PC...</p><p></p><p>Windows is always secure... as long as you don't know about the next hole... And then hackers gather up in hacking events and own systems in 20 minutes. "Mysteriously"... They get "divine illumination" when they get there and suddenly in 20 minutes they discover holes that nobody had found before.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Fuzzfas, post: 854824, member: 4553"] Umbra, maybe you must start reading what others say and what the topic is about. You have transformed the post of a guy who says "I intend to stay win Win7 + software and i think i am good" into "Win10 vs Win7, which one is more secure". In post [URL='https://malwaretips.com/threads/death-of-windows7.97916/post-854573']#4[/URL] , you conclude: " so you basically confirm that you can't use Windows 7 without additional 3rd party security tools. Unlike Windows 10 which requires nothing but itself. And amusingly , you are the one telling people shouldn't upgrade to Windows 10 because it is fanfare, blablabla... but rather tell them to add half a dozen of security tools to their Windows 7...Really? " Why, did he say that he will use Win7 without 3rd party security tools? And you say that he is "telling people that shouldn't upgrade to Win10". WHERE? He is saying what he intends to do in his PC! Where did he tell what you claim he told? More likely, you came guns blazing to "castigate" the poor fellow that wants to keep Win7 + 3rd party applications! Why compare softwares with Win10 default??? Why not? If he was Win10 + WD, would you have come to tell him what you did? Didn't you write, always in post 4> "so you basically confirm that you can't use Windows 7 without additional 3rd party security tools. Unlike Windows 10 which requires nothing but itself. " If a Win10 user is fine with running Win10+antivirus, why one couldn't compare it with Win7 + whatever he wants to run? The issue here is to run Win10 or whether one can stay reasonably safe? Built-in security, is good on PAPER. Shame, that it's the only piece of security, that any malware writer HAS to defeat. If i am a malware writer, i may not care about defeating Vipre for example or ESET, but one thing i know that i will have to defeat, is the OS. In some years, Win7 will be history and you will be still here in the forum praising how secure the only OS, Win10 will be, however, do you think that malware will stop? If i were malware writer, my main concern would be the most common defenses: Win10, Avast, AVG, Kaspersky. You present Win10 as some kind of security miracle, yet vulnerabilites come out by the dozens and what only managed to do, is make malware more sophisticated than before. It's common knowledge, but doesn't hurt repeating. It's like you want to rob from a house. And the house might have various antithief contraptions but the only one you are certain that is present, is "Win10 burglar alarm", which you can practice how to defeat at the leasure of your own house. There is NOTHING 100% safe. Especially if it's in Windows kernel. Yes, Appcontainer, is a sandbox and as all things Microsoft, it has been and will be compromised ([URL='https://threats.kaspersky.com/en/vulnerability/KLA11318/']Kaspersky Threats — KLA11318[/URL]). Anything in Windows kernel will be compromised, if attackers have the necessity to do so, for the simple fact that they have a lot of time to practice if need be and it's imperative to always find a way to infect Windows. While someone will think hard before spending his energies to bypass something like Voodooshield, Sandboxie, etc. Because it's not worth the effort. The patch will always arrive too late for some... My brother didn't encounter that, because unlike unfirewalled corporate computers, i had taken care of useless processes listening for no reason. I gave him a quiet, simple security setup, that would cover him. And it did. You brought up EB in the discussion, not me and we are not corporations. The OP sure isn't. In the corporation, one unfirewalled PC with filesharing to others, was enough to spread the worm and this will probably happen AGAIN in the future, because such is the nature of worms and Win10 will succumb to a future worm too. It just happened that they found for "free" the NSA tool, that had the means and motive to spend the time to develop it. Ultimately, if NSA wants to get you, there is nothing you can do. The problem is, you use SRP and AppContainer in Win10? Fine. I don't know SRP in WIn10, but in Win7, i don't like it. Because it's too much work when i want to change something and too many clicks to change policies. So i prefer 3rd party programs and give more flexibility and more quick possibility to revert something. But why can't the OP be safer than most Win10 users, even if he doesn't choose your way and he prefers to use 4 applications and Win7? That's the whole point of the debate, which, i think has derailed from the topic's scope. Even fileless malware, still needs a point of entry and it needs to run code on the machine. One may find ways to block powershell, WSH etc and even AVs are more aware now. So why can't he be happy with Win7 + other software? It's the end result that counts, not the theoretical discussion. Theoretically you may be targeted by NSA's next gen malware and you don't even know it. There is nothing 100% impenetrable. Especially Windows itself! And pardon me if i have the idea of some anti-Win7 bias, but i can't help wonder. This setup here is "secure" [URL unfurl="true"]https://malwaretips.com/threads/mrbananaxxs-security-config-2020.97923/[/URL] Mine is at "risk". [USER=76297]@poirotz[/USER] 's earned a lesson about "you need some many extra programs while Win10 can do all alone". Is his setup less "secure" than the "secure" above? Because he runs Win7? If we go and test both configs against 0 day malware, will the "secure" from MrBanana's setup fare better? Isn't this the whole issue of the topic? Sure, he wants to run an overkill config. It's his PC... Windows is always secure... as long as you don't know about the next hole... And then hackers gather up in hacking events and own systems in 20 minutes. "Mysteriously"... They get "divine illumination" when they get there and suddenly in 20 minutes they discover holes that nobody had found before. [/QUOTE]
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