poirotz

Level 1
Verified
I hear a lot of advice these days about the need of 'upgrading' to Windows10 as a measure of security,but i think all this fanfare is -perhaps- greatly exaggerated.
Personally i have my main desktop pc with Windows7pro 64, running with a wufuc git-hub software to cope with AMD Ryzen5 six processors,a pc which i have diligently updated almost to the

end, but avoiding the last update mainly dealing to install W10.

I have two other notebooks with Windows7, one 64 bit and the other 32 bit, another laptop with Windows 8.1 and also a Lenovo Ideapad300 which
came with Windows 10 three years ago.
The latter in the beginning gave me a really hard time with sudden, unavoidable updates leading to stoppage and losses,but i have learnt to tame it now and i admit it has become a little

better with latest editions.
Not enough to prompt me to 'upgrade' the various W7 machines i run very satisfactorily up to now,though, not even free of charge.

May I add that I use a lot the Windows10 notebook, but simply because in it I run VirtualBox with a couple of Mint editions that i use when i need either more security or privacy,both in

VPN fashion.

I dont feel the need to run any VB with my main Windows7pro pc,however, which has the following protections:
1-Imaging
2-Kaspersky Internet Security
3-NVT ExeRadar antiexecutable
4-Sandboxie
5-ShadowDefender

My idea is that, having 2,3,4 and 5 running -and using either Kaspersky SafeMoney or a special hardened sandbox of Sandboxie to make deals-plus a dedicated browser, from a security point

of view there's nothing missing in comparison to Windows10.

The only missing thing is the nuisance of forced updates and telemetry.

I plan to use Windows7 at least for another couple of years with no fuss as the aired warnings about the impending disaster of having no more updates seems to me like the fire holograms in

Planet of the Apes: i know people running Windows7 who never updated in five years and were never touched by malware simply by running one software- Shadow Defender.

With the mentioned protections in place,or similar in function, I didnt get any malware in the past 13 years.

I suspect (please dont correct me its a joke) that,security wise-if there still were programs for it,one could even use Windows98.....
 

Fuzzfas

Level 3
Verified
Planet of the Apes: i know people running Windows7 who never updated in five years and were never touched by malware simply by running one software- Shadow Defender.

Those programs are more than enough. I know people that run Win7SP1 without any updates, with just a free antivirus and they 're "clean" to this date. With the programs you mention, you will be far more secure than the vast majority of ordinary Win10 users...

The real threat to Win7 is and has been, the lack of new hardware support. I upgraded to Ryzen 2600 for the fact that it's the last officially supported AMD generation for Win7. Actually, Ryzen 3000 has been now supported through a hacked USB driver, so next year, i will probably go for 3700x. I did the same for a laptop (i bought it while it could still support Win7).

The other thing is some new software, like a new game, that will only support Win10 and you won't be able to live without it. Otherwise, security wise, you can make Win7 safe as Fort Knox, with 3rd party software.
 
Last edited:
F

ForgottenSeer 823865

I hear a lot of advice these days about the need of 'upgrading' to Windows10 as a measure of security, but i think all this fanfare is -perhaps- greatly exaggerated.
and you are maybe the first one that contradict himself in the same post.

Let analyze why:


The latter in the beginning gave me a really hard time with sudden, unavoidable updates leading to stoppage and losses,but i have learnt to tame it now and i admit it has become a little
which obviously has nothing to do with security. for example i use Win10 since day one, updating as soon as possible, upgrading even before the official build release, i never get your issues. so let discard this point.

better with latest editions.
Not enough to prompt me to 'upgrade' the various W7 machines i run very satisfactorily up to now,though, not even free of charge.
Again this pint has nothing to do with security. You are just annoyed by MS upgrade nags,

I
dont feel the need to run any VB with my main Windows7pro pc,however, which has the following protections:
1-Imaging
2-Kaspersky Internet Security
3-NVT ExeRadar antiexecutable
4-Sandboxie
5-ShadowDefender
NOW are talking. Look at all the security apps you needs to get Win7 secure enough to your needs ! amazingly OVERKILL !

1- Imaging, this one is fair, i wont deny this.
2- KIS, full suite , probably the best one on the market, fair enough.

and now we enter in Paranoid Mode! :

3- NVT ERP...KIS had its own quite powerful default-deny components which makes KIS the top suite and the use of a simple Anti-exe redundant and worthless.
4- Sandboxie, ok, a sandbox is always useful, but Sandboxie development is dead, and survives only because Win10 didn't break it yet.
5- Shadow Defender, i used it for quite long time. ok Light Virtualization is useful.

So i guess, in the most extreme scenario,:
1- you enter Shadow Mode (which by itself will prevent the real system to be compromised) ,
2- then you browse in sandboxie (maybe to avoid getting some keylogger in your Shadow Mode session, SD cant block keyloggers to call home)
3- then KIS is still active, and will probably just by itself prevent 1 and 2...
4- but because you don't trust any of the other softs you use, you also have ERP to block the magic malware that will bypass 1,2 and 3...honestly the only reason i can see for you to use ERP is to create custom rules to block LOLbins/LOLscripts.

so you basically confirm that you can't use Win7 without additional 3rd party security tools. Unlike Win10 which requires nothing but itself.
And amusingly , you are the one telling people shouldn't upgrade to Win10 because it is fanfare, blablabla... but rather tell them to add half a dozen of security tools to their Win7...Really?

of view there's nothing missing in comparison to Windows10.
indeed, but with Win10 i have a secure OS out-of-the-Box. and i will be safer than you when it comes to Kernel Exploits (which will bypass any security softs because it runs as the name say "Kernel" level) because the vulnerability will be promptly fixed.

The only missing thing is the nuisance of forced updates and telemetry.
not security related.

I plan to use Windows7 at least for another couple of years with no fuss as the aired warnings about the impending disaster of having no more updates seems to me like the fire holograms in
because you seems to ignore what are kernel exploits delivered via fileless malware.

Planet of the Apes: i know people running Windows7 who never updated in five years and were never touched by malware simply by running one software- Shadow Defender.
try again without any 3rd party securty tools, will you do? i dont think so.

With the mentioned protections in place, or similar in function, I didnt get any malware in the past 13 years.
Since decades i used a computer, i never get infected, not because some security softs protected me, but because i never encountered any malware.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

poirotz

Level 1
Verified
I agree with you Fuzzfas.
In line with what you say ( the lack of new hardware support ) when i bought this desktop machine (Ryzen5) about two years ago in order to substitute a similar one which was stricken by a close thunderbolt, the vendor looked at me with compassion when i said i wanted Windows7.
He said he didnt have any so i installed it myself in the empty machine. I was greatly worried when Microsoft warnings that the OS was not
able to cope with the processors began to show up on the screen. Luckily,I found in github the answer and was able with a very tiny and simple
software to cope with both processors and updates.
I am also lucky i dont run games ,so no problems.
 

poirotz

Level 1
Verified
Umbra, I think you developed a hypercritic attitude lately.....
unfortunately i dont have the time to elaborate at this moment,but i must reject a few of your remarks:
1-i dont think i contradicted myself at all in my post.
2-i said i foresee at least two more years before a change might be mandatory.
3-i concede NVTExeRadar could be overkill with KIS, but they get along well.
4-Sandboxie is not overkill with Shadow Defender,as i dont always use the latter. Together they work fine.
5-Windows10 is secure 'as it is'?
Maybe you're talking about a special edition of Windows10,like the S edition?
 

dinosaur07

Level 9
Verified
I hear a lot of advice these days about the need of 'upgrading' to Windows10 as a measure of security,but i think all this fanfare is -perhaps- greatly exaggerated.
Personally i have my main desktop pc with Windows7pro 64, running with a wufuc git-hub software to cope with AMD Ryzen5 six processors,a pc which i have diligently updated almost to the

end, but avoiding the last update mainly dealing to install W10.

I have two other notebooks with Windows7, one 64 bit and the other 32 bit, another laptop with Windows 8.1 and also a Lenovo Ideapad300 which
came with Windows 10 three years ago.
The latter in the beginning gave me a really hard time with sudden, unavoidable updates leading to stoppage and losses,but i have learnt to tame it now and i admit it has become a little

better with latest editions.
Not enough to prompt me to 'upgrade' the various W7 machines i run very satisfactorily up to now,though, not even free of charge.

May I add that I use a lot the Windows10 notebook, but simply because in it I run VirtualBox with a couple of Mint editions that i use when i need either more security or privacy,both in

VPN fashion.

I dont feel the need to run any VB with my main Windows7pro pc,however, which has the following protections:
1-Imaging
2-Kaspersky Internet Security
3-NVT ExeRadar antiexecutable
4-Sandboxie
5-ShadowDefender

My idea is that, having 2,3,4 and 5 running -and using either Kaspersky SafeMoney or a special hardened sandbox of Sandboxie to make deals-plus a dedicated browser, from a security point

of view there's nothing missing in comparison to Windows10.

The only missing thing is the nuisance of forced updates and telemetry.

I plan to use Windows7 at least for another couple of years with no fuss as the aired warnings about the impending disaster of having no more updates seems to me like the fire holograms in

Planet of the Apes: i know people running Windows7 who never updated in five years and were never touched by malware simply by running one software- Shadow Defender.

With the mentioned protections in place,or similar in function, I didnt get any malware in the past 13 years.

I suspect (please dont correct me its a joke) that,security wise-if there still were programs for it,one could even use Windows98.....

Same opinion here, i don't see myself safe only by upgrading. So all the statement after this argument is erroneous.
 
F

ForgottenSeer 823865

Umbra, I think you developed a hypercritic attitude lately.....
unfortunately i dont have the time to elaborate at this moment,but i must reject a few of your remarks:
1-i dont think i contradicted myself at all in my post.
2-i said i foresee at least two more years before a change might be mandatory.
3-i concede NVTExeRadar could be overkill with KIS, but they get along well.
4-Sandboxie is not overkill with Shadow Defender,as i dont always use the latter. Together they work fine.
5-Windows10 is secure 'as it is'?
Maybe you're talking about a special edition of Windows10,like the S edition?
1- of course you did, you dismissed upgrading Win10 as security measure, while you keep Win7 boosted with 5 security apps.
2- it doesn't really matter as long it will last before before changing, when an OS will not get security patches for vulnerabilities, especially kernel ones, it won't worth be used. If you car constructor tell you that your engine is faulty and may explode but it won't be fixed, will you change the car or keep using it despite the risks? i already know your answer...
3- overkill and affording nothing much to the overall security, not saying its development is way slower than KIS, so 2 reasons not to use it. In a layered config, the additional softs are supposed to complement what the initial one is lacking, not as backup if it fails.
4- i know, i did in the past. but honestly, i don't even need any of them.
5-no, in Win10 Home, you have Windows Defender (AV), Exploit Protection (ex-EMET, true Anti-Exploit), Core Integrity (to secure critical process), Controlled Folder (to prevent files modifications), Secureboot (to prevent malicious drivers), Smartscreen (Reputation mechanism), etc.. What else do you need? i don't even talk about the Win10 Enterprise i'm using which add tons of security options to the point i run it naked (but tweaked).

To a beginner/classic user, Win10 is way more secure than Win7, no one can deny that.

When you compare stuff, you compare them at the same level, both out-of-the-box or both with additional tools; and with this in mind, in term of security, Win10 just relegate Win7 to a crap OS... Win7 Defender awesome anti-spyware...come on...

I bet you will never run win7 without any security tools, i can see you aren't foolish to do that and it just confirm that Win7 isn't secure by just itself and user who don't know about security must upgrade.
The whole "fanfare" as you claimed, isn't about security-aware/experienced users, it is about the total noobs who can't protect themselves; the best they can do to be safer is to upgrade.

I observed many security-oriented people, bashing Win10 because "i can make Win7 very safe", sure, but does 99% of the users worldwide can do the same? not at all.
So yes , i'm hypercritic to those who mislead users stating upgrading to Win10 is not necessary, while they safely relax behind their security knowledge/tools and let Average Joe struggle and be victims of keyloggers and ransomware...
 
Last edited by a moderator:
F

ForgottenSeer 823865

i don't see myself safe only by upgrading. So all the statement after this argument is erroneous.
I can see why, your config: EAM/ESET NOD32 (alternatively) + SpyShelter Premium + WinPatrol...
2 HIPS simultaneously, great...Winpatrol ? i don't even know what it gives you that NOD32's HIPS or EAM's BB + Spyshelter's HIPS cant do...

both you and @poirotz are paranoids, you rely more on security tools than learning how to use and tweak an OS to make is safer.
 

Sampei Nihira

Level 6
Verified
Guys, if you still want to use W.7, do it as well, but you have to take some more precautions than before.;)

Switching to the Standard Account is mandatory.
In W.7 there are no usability problems that I would have with W.XP.

Install an Anti-Exploit, your last line defense.

Configure your favorite browser better than those who use W.10.
It is your first line of defense.
You have to take better care of privacy than others.
If we visit a dangerous web page that is not recognized by our defenses, the less "bad guys" know about our browser, system ..... and the better.
Better privacy is often synonymous with greater security.(y)
 
F

ForgottenSeer 823865

Guys, if you still want to use W.7, do it as well, but you have to take some more precautions than before.;)
Indeed, i never say the opposite, i just can't accept when someone dismiss advices for Average Joe to upgrade to a modern and safer OS is fanfare and exaggerated.
People are free to use their favorite even if obsolete OS, but don't dare to say it is as safe as the latest OS version.
That is my point.
 

dJim

Level 5
Verified
Thats too much drama... when i was uusing win 7 sp 2 im just desactivate the windows update complety, and never got any issue or problem with security, the common user never become a target for real hacker, just a good security products with responsible navegation on internet and you wont find any problem...
 
F

ForgottenSeer 823865

Thats too much drama... when i was uusing Windows 7 sp 2 im just desactivate the windows update complety, and never got any issue or problem with security, the common user never become a target for real hacker, just a good security products with responsible navegation on internet and you wont find any problem...
That was true during WinXP/7 era, but you didn't have much ransomware or credential stealers like now.
And indeed safe habits are recommended. but i rather having my safe habits while backed-up by default Win10 than default Win7 or older.
 

bribon77

Level 34
Verified
I don't think it's a fantasy to upgrade to W10.
The AV, they think, that the Operating Systems are up to date, and that part is not from the AV if it is not from the system, the refore, the AV it will not cover
what corresponds to the System.

The truth is that the topic is very recent but, sooner or later, W7 users will have to update.:)
 

RKRN3

Level 3
Verified
Thats too much drama... when i was uusing Windows 7 sp 2 im just desactivate the windows update complety, and never got any issue or problem with security, the common user never become a target for real hacker, just a good security products with responsible navegation on internet and you wont find any problem...
My friend just got infected by Ryuk ransomware in his Windows 7 PC. He is a common user just like me. Also, there was no SP2 for Windows 7. Also, the Average Joe wouldn't even think of moving to Windows 7.
 

dJim

Level 5
Verified
My friend just got infected by Ryuk ransomware in his Windows 7 PC. He is a common user just like me. Also, there was no SP2 for Windows 7. Also, the Average Joe wouldn't even think of moving to Windows 7.
dam thts a really bad luck, but you rigth in win 7 era ransom still into dev.. with sp 2 mean the last big update for win 7, anyway the ransomware will find they way to infect last win updates.
 

Fuzzfas

Level 3
Verified
That was true during WinXP/7 era, but you didn't have much ransomware or credential stealers like now.
And indeed safe habits are recommended. but i rather having my safe habits while backed-up by default Windows 10 than default Windows 7 or older.


I 've read and partecipated in countless "internet wars" in the past about the same issue, every time there is a change in Windows. The thing is, the OP isn't a newb and the other thing, is that the OS will always have holes that get exploited before they are patched, because the attackers also have Win10 at home, so they have ample time to test their new malware against the "fully" patched system. If Win10 was so secure, it would be the end of malware. But it never is! The one PC i 've seen with ransomware, was running fully updated Win10 and was running an expired antivirus demo version (new laptop with WD disabled).

My own brother is computer illiterate (he uses the PC just for Word and websurfing) and has never been infected just with Win7SP1 (that i update once a year manually, because he is incapable of dealing with even the slightest "problem" that may arise after an update). Because he doesn't install anything on his own and only goes to "respectable" websites. His browser also gets udpated once a year by me (he once called me panicked because he had resized a window and he couldn't maximize it again, we are talking about such levels of computer illiteracy).

Win7 is now at 25% of marketshare. I doubt that malware writers are just weeping because they are now unable to infect the 75% of the machines around and in the next years malware will disappear... Or that they think "hey, it's ok, i will just write a malware that might hit the 25% of the dudes that run Win7. I can live without being able to hit the 75% of the market. I am a modest guy!"

The truth is, the in security forums, paranoia reigns supreme, where the latest and greatest exploit is waiting every second around the corner to infect the poor forum member. When at the end of they day, you go the topic of "when was the last time you got infected" and the vast majority there counts the last encounter in years.

And then the discussion continues: "Oh, but with this program you only block the exe after the exploit, but not the exploit itself! So get this program too!" .

And all is fine when you see it as a hobby, but at the end, if i had the minimum suspicion that something landed on my PC, i would just format. "Oh, but there are those that can infect the BIOS!". And this never ends. Or it does, after you take a break for a few years from forums and you just use your PC, instead of having your PC work for your antimalware applications and realize that this constant "risk" you thought you were subjected to, is maybe the same as the risk of being hit by a meteorite on the street. It exists, but it's unlikely. Of course, if all day, all you do is download cracks and keygens or files with double extension and you expect to see how lucky you are...
 

Fuzzfas

Level 3
Verified
My friend just got infected by Ryuk ransomware in his Windows 7 PC. He is a common user just like me. Also, there was no SP2 for Windows 7. Also, the Average Joe wouldn't even think of moving to Windows 7.

And yet, a simple google search shows that Ryuk ransomware can infect just fine Win10 PCs, not just Win7. Because if you were the ransomware's author and in conseguence a rather smart fellow, you would probably test it on your own Win10 at home before releasing it, to make sure it works on Win10 too, wouldn't you? Yes, you would...

Just like in every annual international meeting, where they compete on who will breach a system first, you read about successful exploits in less than 1 hour, because each group has its own list of undisclosed holes that uses that moment to win (and then you get the patches, but they had the exploit ready for months).
 

RKRN3

Level 3
Verified
And yet, a simple google search shows that Ryuk ransomware can infect just fine Windows 10 PCs, not just Windows 7. Because if you were the ransomware's author and in conseguence a rather smart fellow, you would probably test it on your own Windows 10 at home before releasing it, to make sure it works on Windows 10 too, wouldn't you? Yes, you would...

Just like in every annual international meeting, where they compete on who will breach a system first, you read about successful exploits in less than 1 hour, because each group has its own list of undisclosed holes that uses that moment to win (and then you get the patches, but they had the exploit ready for months).
I am not saying that Windows 10 is 100% secure, but it gets patched none-the-less. Windows 7 isn't going to get patched anymore. Remember WannaCry Ransomware in 2017? It infected mostly Windows XP. It had patches but organisations didn't bother to install them. This is one way in which Windows 10 is safe, as the updates keep getting installed automatically. Had they patched theirs before, WannaCry wouldn't have done so much damage.
 
Top