Umbra, maybe you must start reading what others say and what the topic is about. You have transformed the post of a guy who says "I intend to stay win Windows 7 + software and i think i am good" into "Windows 10 vs Windows 7, which one is more secure".Comparing the incomparable...
And i can make my Windows 10 Enterprise as safe than your Windows 7 + softs , or i can make my Windows 10 Home + softs as safe or safer than your Windows 7 + softs, why?
Because Windows 7 is more vulnerable than Windows 10; no argument in that. So if we add the same 3rd party soft, my Windows 10 will always be safer, because it was made with a more secure architecture; especially if you use Windows 7 x86 which lacks of Patchguard.
I don't need you to say it , it is a fact. Only ignorants will say otherwise...
Why comparing Windows 7 + Softs with Windows 10 default, this is flawed, compare them both with softs then...
It seems you missed the point of the analogy...it was to demonstrate that having a built-in security was better than none...
Nobody asked you to be paranoid. I am among those here that recommend skills/knowledge over stockpiling security tools.
You can stop the dropper, not the kernel exploit itself, and now with fileless attacks, it is even easier to bypass security softs. Just saying...
i see you don't know what is Appcontainer...
Appcontainer is mostly used by Metro Apps (Edge browser, etc...), it is restriction sandboxing. Users don't have to enable it, they just need to use a metro app like Edge to gain the benefit of it.
Again flawed comparison, you should take Windows 10 with WD vs Windows 7 with MSE and EMET, that is the right comparison, everything else is wrong.
If you take Comodo or whatever , then i should also use it, and the result will still be Windows 10 safer than Windows 7.
Obvious again, my ex-employer was a security vendor, and i had "acquaintances" who were malware writers. So what you said doesn't surprise me...it is common knowledge.
Not being exposed to any malware, doesn't make your safe or your security softs awesome...EB targeted businesses because it is a network based kernel exploits, most victims were corporations and organizations, with some poor individuals get caught in betweeen because they probably were connected to the infected network. So obviously your brother wouldn't encounter it.
Same for me, i am one of the few here daring to bash paranoid setup while Windows 10 + one apps is more than enough.
Eventually, won't we all have to pass to Windows 10? The key word being "eventually". Or like John Maynard Keynes said "in the long run, we will all be dead".So, what would you do if someday those 3rd party vendors decide to drop support for Windows 7?
It's the OS you don't find in the release notes of software bugfixes. Latest Nvidia drivers (same story every time). Now in the nvidia forums there are also angry people that can't install the CP because they don't read the release notes.Sorry....but what is Windows7?
I thought Windows7 was a myth
Well you can use all of those, but it's way overkill IMHO. Kaspersky Internet Security does all of that, minus the sandboxing so really all the other stuff is redundant. For me the simple fact that W10 can do a lot of that by itself makes it more the reason to move to W10. Granted that you will have to take the time to enable/tweak some settings to get the same effect, but it's still there none the less.I dont feel the need to run any VB with my main Windows7pro pc,however, which has the following protections:
2-Kaspersky Internet Security
3-NVT ExeRadar antiexecutable
My idea is that, having 2,3,4 and 5 running -and using either Kaspersky SafeMoney or a special hardened sandbox of Sandboxie to make deals-plus a dedicated browser, from a security point
of view there's nothing missing in comparison to Windows10.
A lot of being malware feel has to do with the simple fact of how one uses their computer and surfs the web. If those people only go to sites like Facebook and they don't install any programs, etc... chances are they will be infection free, no matter if they are using W7 or W10. Like I said above, the simple fact that you have to add a bunch of 3rd party apps to "secure" windows 7 says you don't feel secure enough using it. 3rd party apps are not invincible and adding a ton of them overtop on another doesn't make you "more secure," in fact it can have the opposite effect. Just like the built in stuff within W10, hackers do take their time to bypass and get around 3rd party programs, so I wouldn't just assume that you are more secure using 3rd party programs, compared to what's built into W10. Your overall surfing computer habits usually will dictate that more so then what security setup you are using.Those programs are more than enough. I know people that run Win7SP1 without any updates, with just a free antivirus and they 're "clean" to this date. With the programs you mention, you will be far more secure than the vast majority of ordinary Windows 10 users...
The real threat to Windows 7 is and has been, the lack of new hardware support. I upgraded to Ryzen 2600 for the fact that it's the last officially supported AMD generation for Windows 7. Actually, Ryzen 3000 has been now supported through a hacked USB driver, so next year, i will probably go for 3700x. I did the same for a laptop (i bought it while it could still support Windows 7).
The other thing is some new software, like a new game, that will only support Windows 10 and you won't be able to live without it. Otherwise, security wise, you can make Windows 7 safe as Fort Knox, with 3rd party software.
Agreed,which obviously has nothing to do with security. for example i use Windows 10 since day one, updating as soon as possible, upgrading even before the official build release, i never get your issues. so let discard this point.
You're right, it was never the end of malware and it never will be, but I don't think that was the point of W10. At the end of the day, W10 is still much more secure outside the box compared to W7. Like I said above, if you have to add a bunch of 3rd party programs to achieve the same benefit of W10, well then that answers your question. No one ever said that W10 would never be hacked, or malware free, but still doesn't mean that MS hasn't improved on it's overall security. Hacking/malware is always a cat an mouse game, so no matter what there will always be malware and security holes.If Windows 10 was so secure, it would be the end of malware. But it never is! The one PC i 've seen with ransomware, was running fully updated Windows 10 and was running an expired antivirus demo version (new laptop with WD disabled).
My own brother is computer illiterate (he uses the PC just for Word and websurfing) and has never been infected just with Win7SP1 (that i update once a year manually, because he is incapable of dealing with even the slightest "problem" that may arise after an update). Because he doesn't install anything on his own and only goes to "respectable" websites. His browser also gets udpated once a year by me (he once called me panicked because he had resized a window and he couldn't maximize it again, we are talking about such levels of computer illiteracy).
it is not the fact that he like to use Windows 7 + Soft, it is the fact he came with "I hear a lot of advice these days about the need of 'upgrading' to Windows10 as a measure of security, but i think all this fanfare is -perhaps- greatly exaggerated. "Why, did he say that he will use Windows 7 without 3rd party security tools? And you say that he is "telling people that shouldn't upgrade to Windows 10". WHERE? He is saying what he intends to do in his PC! Where did he tell what you claim he told? More likely, you came guns blazing to "castigate" the poor fellow that wants to keep Windows 7 + 3rd party applications!
He can but don't say upgrading to a safer OS is "Fanfare and exaggerated" , that was the exact reason i reacted. The rest i don't really care, it even amused me.But why can't the OP be safer than most Windows 10 users, even if he doesn't choose your way and he prefers to use 4 applications and Windows 7? That's the whole point of the debate, which, i think has derailed from the topic's scope.
You don't even get what is the purpose of the config section and what tags means.And pardon me if i have the idea of some anti-Windows 7 bias, but i can't help wonder. This setup here is "secure"
Mine is at "risk". @poirotz 's earned a lesson about "you need some many extra programs while Windows 10 can do all alone". Is his setup less "secure" than the "secure" above? Because he runs Windows 7? If we go and test both configs against 0 day malware, will the "secure" from MrBanana's setup fare better?
Isn't this the whole issue of the topic? Sure, he wants to run an overkill config. It's his PC...
You keep saying that, "there will be always vulnerabilities" OF COURSE ! you are wearing your keyboard, we all know that (or maybe you believe we are poor idiots thinking than Windows is invincible?)Windows is always secure... as long as you don't know about the next hole... And then hackers gather up in hacking events and own systems in 20 minutes. "Mysteriously"... They get "divine illumination" when they get there and suddenly in 20 minutes they discover holes that nobody had found before.
About this since i didn't cover it before. Fear not, there are other forums in the internet with very skilled people that don't run just anything and the "hack" consists in an edit in the deviceID, which makes Windows think (accept) that it's installing the USB driver of Ryzen 2000, while it's Ryzen 3000. The driver works just fine, it's just MS that pressed AMD not to issue the driver itself.Also, if you have to use "hacked" drivers to make hardware run is yet another reason to upgrade. I personally would never, EVER trust someone making a hacked driver to run newer hardware. First there's no guarantee it will run optimally, second how do you know it's safe? and third, good luck getting support from any vendor if something goes wrong. Like anything, things move forward, not backwards and like software, hardware will stop being supported aswell.
He even put "perhaps" in there, which is more than most can say. It's called an opinion, about his own self and configuration no less. Again, you are talking to yourself. WHO the hell is the average Joe that h e advised? He opened the topic himself to show his new config? Who is this Average Joe? Judging by the levels, it must be me. Or are the average Joes expecting to decided what to do by reading what some Joe Doe in a forum will say about himself? I just put "Death of Windows 7?" in google. I have the choice of reading "Techradar", "betanews", "PCWorld", "The Register", "Tom's Hardware", just to mention the first page, but the Average Joe instead will come to follow @poirotz in this specific thread? Please... Or are the "Average Joes" those in the help section that disappear with 5 posts, but now they will all pour in to learn from @poirotz ? Why don't the forum gurus make a sticky instead "Forum Reccomendation For Windows 7 EOL" and let the "Windows 7 plebeans" a corner to have a discussion too?it is not the fact that he like to use Windows 7 + Soft, it is the fact he came with "I hear a lot of advice these days about the need of 'upgrading' to Windows10 as a measure of security, but i think all this fanfare is -perhaps- greatly exaggerated. "
Come, on! exaggerated and fanfare to advise Average Joe to upgrade to a safer and maintained OS ! if you agree with that , then you have nothing to do in a security forum. Sorry !
He did add perhaps at least! How often do you see that in a forum?He can but don't say upgrading to a safer OS is "Fanfare and exaggerated" , that was the exact reason i reacted. The rest i don't really care, it even amused me.
Every forum has its quirks, i don't follow this one closely to have understood every rule. I just try to find some common logic in all this. At the end of the day, the proof is in the pudding, because everyone has an opinion. What you have keeps you clean? It works.You don't even get what is the purpose of the config section and what tags means.
Like many, who get their little feelings hurt because their "thought-to-be-awesome" setup is tagged as risky. Let me laugh...
The section and the tag are not meant to satisfy their little ego, they are meant to inform AVERAGE JOE (because MT is for Average Joe) what kind of setup are safe to use in case they want some inspiration to secure their own.
It has nothing to do with the user's skill on how he can handle his own unsafe system. Risky item = Risky tag.
Got it now?
You keep saying that, "there will be always vulnerabilities" OF COURSE ! you are wearing your keyboard, we all know that (or maybe you believe we are poor idiots thinking than Windows is invincible?)
What you said is true for every OS and software in this world. Stating the obvious again...
What i don't understand is this. Ok, i am not connecting to the web right now, but what bugs me is: This is a security forum, with a malware hub no less. In all other sectors, people make comparisons. How come nobody, instead of stating his opinions or ad hominem arguments (Ad hominem - Wikipedia), while at the same time asks not to mind the words of the speech, didn't ask to do, for the sake of the AVERAGE JOE (!!!) , who can't upgrade to Windows 10 for one or the other reason , a test, and recommend, IF POSSIBLE, IF IT EXISTS, some configuration, that is let's say roughly on par with Windows 10 + WD, which is what the "average Joe" would use with Windows 10 out of the box, so that the poor Windows 7 user that has unsupported hardware or no Windows 10 license or no will, can stay reasonably safe?If you don't want to connect to the web, Windows 7 is perfectly fine.
My concern is that less knowledgeable people will read and believe a post called "It's ok to protect windows7 with third-party software.". I ’ m guessing there are quite a few people out there looking for this kind of useful information, especially right after support was recently discontinued.
I don't say anything about people with knowledge who continue to use wjn7 with confidence and responsibility. However, considering that other users may be affected, I think it should be denied.
Be careful not to be fooled by the tone of your @Umbra post. You need to read the meaning and contents of his speech, not the words.
When it comes down to OS and even more so, to OS+security, there's a lot of projection going on (i don't exclude myself either). To make an example, i was around, when the Vista users, where fighting with XP users that didn't wish to pass to Vista (in non security related forum). There was even a famous "Windows guru" journalist that at the time wrote accolade article about Vista's future success.@Fuzzfas
i am relieved at least one person got the gist of what i wanted to infer.
Best of luck to you among IT people wich didnt study logic at the University.
Other people over here either watched or lived too many
BRONX movies and try to transfer their lack of basic education into their posts.
Sometimes it's not a problem of concussion,but simply economical.
Sometimes fanboys become trolls.
I've done maybe a thousand posts in the last 20 years in the best forums in the world regarding security,both in the USA and
the UK,about complicated or unpopular topics since Windows95, but this is the first time i am dragged down to the level
of angry beasts talking.
Considering there's no point in having to reply to insidious idiocies everyday-got no time for it-and considering if we go on
like this i'd be surely banned for having ideas not in line with the herdleaders or for giving titles to persons, I decided to
quit right now with the forum.
So i beg the chief moderator to take steps to remove me from now on from the forum ranks.
I will remove my profile and deactivate.
Best of luck to the forum for the future.
Doc Oldschool,This is why Dr. @oldschool is here. I have created my Psyko-Emotional Scanner for diagnosing Security Forum Paranoia Syndrome, Security Application Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder, Privacy Invasion Panic Perversion and other info-tech related maladies - which are epidemic on many forums like MT.
The comparisons and analogies of show-Zi... and the way she phases things is SO cute. And on-target too.In order to maintain the Porsche of the air-cooled engine, wisdom and additional investment to maintain performance are essential. The new Porsche has increased safety and performance, and has less risk of failure.
We accept that enthusiasts stick to air-cooled Porsche, but we cannot recommend them to people who have just obtained a car license or want to go shopping.
I personally guess that it is a waste of time to worry about security and worry about os. Os is the foundation of the building. All you need is a program to build on it.
Yeah, exactly. Umbra can be brusque... but it's harmless. He's generally correct and often helpful. A good resource for us here at MT.
Cylance!There is more emotion in this thread.... than threads about AV tests when peoples pet AVs didn't do well.... than threads about whether Windows Defender is good or not.... than threads about the relative sucktitude of the Green Kool-Aid...
The doctor can only help those who realize their plight and request help*.
That's fair, but I would personally still upgrade. That's just my approach, but even for average users I would recommend the same.About this since i didn't cover it before. Fear not, there are other forums in the internet with very skilled people that don't run just anything and the "hack" consists in an edit in the deviceID, which makes Windows think (accept) that it's installing the USB driver of Ryzen 2000, while it's Ryzen 3000. The driver works just fine, it's just MS that pressed AMD not to issue the driver itself.
Personally I think it would be best practice for average users to keep up with the changes, which includes updating the OS to the latest version. They will continue to get security updates along with overall security improvements that will never be present in previous versions of the OS.I got it and will wrap up what one can read in this forum:
- If you have very little security with Windows 7, you are foolhardy, which means you should go to Windows 10.
- If you have a medium number of programs, you are at risk, which will go away with Windows 10, even with just out of the box security.
- If you have overkill, it means you are not confident enough, which means you should go to Windows 10.
And if you say otherwise, you will be castigated because some lurking "average Joe", might follow your bad example and be doomed.
Well, yes, it all makes sense now. Thank God, i have still the "Windows 7 clandestine forum" with the "hacked" drivers, where Windows 7 users can still say whatever they please. I will make a proposal to call it "Windows 7 Underground" now that Windows 7 isn't safe anymore.
Every software in the world, isn't the preferred target of every aspiring malware writer. We both know that.