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Woodkid

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My Emsisoft license ran out 2 weeks ago and since then I am looking for a replacement. Let's say I just wanted to see what is going on on the security market.
I realized that it is hard to trust AV developers or to like them. Most of them sell crap. Sorry for that, but what's all about this overbloated junk they want to install on my system without a single question? And most of this junk doesn't even help to make your system more secure.

Bitdefender, per example, wins one test after the other. I don't doubt that its detection rate is very good, but who can live with that UI? It looks like I need a high end graphics card to render the UI. It reminds me somehow on the WINAMP days of Avast.
The AV might be ok but the IS is so full of features that I ask myself how a person not knowing anything about security find his or her way through this application. A friend of mine asked why the thing is blinking all the time. I looked at it and clicked on "fix everything". The program didn't tell me what it was what was fixed. It didn't tell me anything else than: "OK". Nice. -.- Why didn't you fix it yourself in the first place, you blinking 3d UI looking like the cockpit of a Tie Fighter.

Kaspersky may be one of the top players but I installed the trial and my PC was just slow. No, this wasn't something that would go away when all the files are whitelisted. Startup and everything was really slowing down. Then I got errors messages all the way. (I did try every program on a clean PC)
Looking at their forums told me that they have really serious problems right now. Their IS is overbloated like every other IS on the market. I'm a nerd, damned. I don't let my kids to the PC if I am not in the room. I don't need children protection or banking protection and so on.

The one that bugged me most was Avira. Whoa, it is really installing Ask toolbar. Bundling with toolbars is one thing. But Ask?? This is for most people malware. You even cannot uninstall that crap without going into the registry. Really? Ask??

AVG is the next candidate that nags you with toolbars. Click - click and you have everything in your browser changed to AVG stuff. Then they "warn" you, that something isn't right with your PC. "Do a system scan." I did. And then they tell you that to fix the problem you have to buy another software. What the hell? And when you uninstall the crapware again, they nag you again: "Do you really want to uninstall the toolbar, too? Keep it on your system!"
For sure.

Then there is the question of support.

When I write to microsoft USA, I get an answer, no matter in which country I live. When I write to Apple USA it is the same. When I write so some nice app developer all around the world everything is smooth.

When I write to ESET with a serious problem or a simple question, no matter what, they tell me I should write my local support. Seriously? I worked in customer service for 4 years. Rule number one: Even when others are selling your stuff it is still your name on the stuff so be kind to the customer and if you don't want to answer a single question then forward the mail to the local partner. Is that so hard? As a person who is in a country because of his job and who isn't good at all at the local language, is it so hard to get help from an English talking person?

The same goes for Kaspersky: I wanted to buy a license through a promotion of a magazine. 4€ for Kaspersky Pure 2.0. So I asked Kaspersky the simple question if there is a downside of this deal. I got the answer that they aren't responsible for this stuff I should write another department of their support. Really?
That is what you call customer support? I call it crap. Just forward my mail, please? Is it that hard? Do I have to look for 2 hours and mail to all your departments to get the right one?

Are there still good AV companies out there? Which one do you trust and why?
Someone posted this on another security forums and unfortunately because of their rules against A vs B it was closed. I am interested in this, too, and would like to hear your opinion. I think he is totally right about that.
 

simmy

New Member
Sadly it's all about the money these days :(.

Toolbars bring in extra revenue and AV companies believe that if people see more features in a product, then they are more likely to purchase it. As long as AVG keeps getting money for people using their Secure Search feature for example, they don't really care what it does to users systems.

Also, customers (apart from people like us on security forums) won't normally download a trial of the product. They will simply see the shining box on display with all these bloated features and purchase it.

Two keywords that are important to an AV company. Profit and shareholders :(.
 

Gnosis

New Member
The AV might be ok but the IS is so full of features that I ask myself how a person not knowing anything about security find his or her way through this application.
There are a lot of AV's with this issue. That is why I think Avast is one of the favorites for Grandma and Grandpa. :)

Most of the population can only handle default Avast on gaming mode for security. The rest are too troublesome for panicky, security noob people (most people). Regardless, most of the population still needs someone to set it up for them to begin with if they want good protection without being harassed by AV bots.

Talked to two people that work for a major defense contractor; They had a decent suite, but in the business they are in they should have had ESET--HIPS set strict--with Sandboxie covering its flank, or something like that. I would even add a BB to that if I have sensitive data in my computer and am constantly hopping public networks like they do (not to mention how many data thieves target them directly, due to their status). They acted like they had no clue what HTTPS Everywhere, KeyScrambler, HitMan Pro, or NoScript is.

It is a miracle that we have not had a catastrophic cyber attack yet.
If defense contractors are not pulling out all the stops, you know a sluggish, centralized, and bloated Federal Gov't is not doing so either.

In light of what was pasted in post number 1, I am really, really content with Sandboxie and TF L5, and a couple of wicked on-demand scanners.
Now if I had really sensitive data to hide, I would obviously add HIPS and maybe a light AV like F-Secure (AV only), and always keep HTTPS Everywhere, and NoScript turned on. Probably add KeyScrambler too. Heck, I might even stick Comodo Firewall in there too.
 
D

Deleted member 178

He should renew Emsisoft ^^

the software doesn't have useless toys/gadgets and the support forum is great (at least for English speaker) , their developer (Fabian Wosar) also come here sometime to discuss about some topics.
 

McLovin

Level 73
Verified
Trusted
Malware Hunter
Have to agree with simmy that it's all about the money. Just I see that not all AV's are like that. Some perform much better than others. Like Trend for example, I didn't just jump into and continue using it, I tested other AV's and see how they went and at the time (back in 2007) Trend seemed to stand out for me.
 

Littlebits

Retired Staff
Are there still good AV companies out there? Which one do you trust and why?
1. Microsoft (Microsoft Security Essential/ Windows Defender)-
Because they are including security features into Windows for free they are not asking for anything in return. They only focus on the most common and widespread malware instead of wasting time trying to detect all of the rare malware that most users will never come in contact with. Has one of the largest malware research centers and database with connections with many other third-party vendors to stop the spread of malware.

2. Avast-
Because they offer the best freeware antivirus with more protection features compared to many paid solutions. They don't bundle crapware within their installer, only display ads for their own paid products to support development. They respect user privacy and only collect data with your permission.

3. Fortinet (FortiClient/ FortiClient Lite)-
Offers free endpoint protection suite (commercial strength) with parental web control, and VPN. Has one of the best url filters, easy to configure, doesn't bundle crapware in their installer or display ads. Respects users privacy. Good company reputation with its users.

Of coarse you could pay for a solution and still not get fully protected.
None of the paid solutions can guarantee that they can protect you any better. AV testing sites are all BS controlled by money that is why you will never find the best security products at the top of their lists.

No solution will offer you 100% protection (paid or free), but if you learn how to safely download, install software and browse the web, a simple free antivirus is all you will ever need.

I have been dealing with malware since the days of Windows 95, I have been running my own home computer repair shop for 9 years. I can say the best way to protect your computer is to educate yourself, if you want to pay for security software it is never ending but if you choose to take some classes on computer security it is only a one-time fee and will stay with you.

Most of my customers can safely get by with only using Microsoft Security Essentials/ Windows Defender with Windows Firewall because they have learned how to avoid malware. These customers are basically novice users who really don't know how to do most of the tasks on Windows but do know how to avoid malware. Those who want to learn can learn but those who are not willing to learn, there is not one single antivirus or security software that can keep them safe from infections. So why pay money for a software that can not guarantee any better protection than a free solution?

Thanks.:D
 

Gnosis

New Member
3. Fortinet (FortiClient/ FortiClient Lite)-
Offers free endpoint protection suite (commercial strength) with parental web control, and VPN. Has one of the best url filters, easy to configure, doesn't bundle crapware in their installer or display ads. Respects users privacy. Good company reputation with its users.
That one sounds interesting.

I like what you said, Littlebits.
 

spywar

New Member
Umbra Corp. said:
He should renew Emsisoft ^^

the software doesn't have useless toys/gadgets and the support forum is great (at least for English speaker) , their developer (Fabian Wosar) also come here sometime to discuss about some topics.
"their developer (Fabian Wosar) also come here sometime to discuss about some topics."

Only one developer ? :p He should be the head of development ..

BTW, devs come a lot on Avast!'s forum Comodo's forum BitDefender's ...
 

spywar

New Member
MSE + SmartScreen filter + Windows Firewall + MBAM (on demand) + safe navigation

= You'll probably never get infected.
 

bitbizket

New Member
1. Microsoft (Microsoft Security Essential/ Windows Defender)-
Because they are including security features into Windows for free they are not asking for anything in return.
Not completely true. It's M$, believe it or not you're actually paying for the lifetime license unless you're using a pirated copy. Just kiddin :D
 
I

illumination

It is a business, like any other business, you have some decent companies that will work with you to keep you as a consumer, and you have the other companies, that bottom line is the price of their share. trust is no longer an issue in this arena, it is more of, how comfortable you are with a company, and just where you draw the line of being taken advantage of..

I may not like a companies ethics, but does not mean i do not like the product, if it works as intended.
 

Woodkid

New Member
Yea this is ok for normal companies but you trust your security, your files, your identity and what not else to AV devs.
And some of them thank it to you with Ask bar. I didn't believe it when I first saw this. Google has all my data, fine, there is no way around that. It would be silly to think you can hide from Google. But I really don't want some shady companies like those behind Ask collect my data, too.
This is all about trust, in my opinion. Sure, there is no black and white but a lot of grey in between.

The one company I trust a lot is Emsisoft, who were very honest about features working on 64bit in the past, were very helpful and had an open ear for every problem I threw at them.

Then Avast seems to be a good player amongst the evil bad but I didn't use it in the past because of its need for Adobe Flash for statistics which isn't the case anymore, so maybe a good time to try it.

Then there is Tsuk with Sandboxie, which is a nice program but just adds another layer of security. I wouldn't use it without any AV software.

TrendMicro and MSE I want to try next. :)
 

jamescv7

Level 61
Verified
Trusted
Actually its in our hands to judge and felt what will be the security measures on a computer, AV's needs a revenue so they can sponsor on some companies even though known for controversial as long it their partnership is ok.

Even competition becomes a revenue too.

IMO only.
 

Woodkid

New Member
No I don't think so. Because the fact alone that we discuss about that makes us some kind of nerds. Because the casual buyer is lured into buying by fancy features and nice boxes.
Most people aren't concerned about Ask toolbars and so on. Most of my colleagues use standard setup laptops, brand Acer, with Internet Explorer and 2+ toolbars.

So why do I bother at all, you might think. Because I have to work with them. Because I have to plug in their USB sticks filled up to the end with malware and spyware into my PC. Because I have to listen to their rants about their creepy slow machines and then I have to tell them again and again to not click on every blinking button. :D

This is so annoying. :)
 

Spirit

New Member
I think The Person which was quoted by OP is just looking at negativity on whole system and I didn't understand what he want to prove by criticizing almost each and every company.
If someone don't trust/like av better to not to use rather then bashing them unnecessarily.
 
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