New Update F-Secure is negotiating a major agreement

stonjean633 said:
They are out-classed. It's really going downhill for them.
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Both F-SECURE and WithSecure are niche players.

F-SECURE relies heavily on upon ISP/Telecom/bank partnerships for channel distribution of the consumer product. This model has limited growth.

WithSecure is focused on medium-sized businesses predominantly located within Europe. The strategy is cloud based security solutions, but that transition has been hampered by slow growth, poor execution, and personnel terminations.
 
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Funny when a company is announcing a major agreement, some members consider it as a funeral announcement, Just wondering what the facts are under statements.

For exampke the "low growth - high debt" claim. When companies take over another company (merger) it is common to finance this takeover (leading to high debt, but for a demerger needing cash to pay for the spilt? That is unusual, but could happen when transition of IP is involved, but others claim F-secure is using Avira code? So I am wondering what to belief.

Not saying those claims are false, just wondering what the factual basis is, because they seem contradictionary.
 
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LinuxFan58 said:
but other claim F-secure is using Avira code?
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Well they use the Avira SDK, they’ve been using it for a number of years now. It’s not a secret to anyone. They also use the Avira behavioural blocking SDK now. This was noted by users as Avira processes (SentryEye) have appeared.

F-Secure still uses proprietary user interface, web blocking and so on. Recently, a firewall “sensor” appeared that could be either a WFP callout driver or a user mode hook that monitors connect, WSASend, WSARecv, WinHttpSendRequest / WinHttpReceiveResponse, InternetOpenUrlW and so on APIs.

Whilst they are not an Avira white label, a fair portion of the software is indeed Avira.

These OEM partnerships still require generous revenue commitments, with the number of users F-Secure has, I doubt Avira is charging them less than 300-500k annually.
 
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Divergent said:
Fair enough. You got me on the "fan of AI" bit, I do enjoy the tech. I also enjoy cheap diner coffee, doesn't mean I mistake it for a balanced meal. [snip]
The fact you could not tell the difference in the first reply states much. Also the fact that you use AI like a search engine tells me a lot also.
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I roast green coffee beans striving for the perfect cup. & what you wrote as "fact" re "the difference" is NOT really a fact is it -- it's your supposition, & not factual at all :ROFLMAO:
(no offense)
 
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Trident said:
F-Secure still uses proprietary user interface, web blocking and so on. Whilst they are not an Avira white label, a fair portion of the software is indeed Avira.

These OEM partnerships still require generous revenue commitments, with the number of users F-Secure has, I doubt Avira is charging them less than 300-500k annually.
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Thanks for the explanation (y)

The OEM partnerships are based on contracts, meaning the 300-500k license fee should not be a problem (because they are probably negiotiated annually). As an example Ziggo a subsiduary of Vodafone in the Netherlands offers F-secure (for free one license in the past). Ziggo is an ISP in the Netherlands serving about 3.5 million households.

With one free license per household that would mean when Ziggo would pay 50 cents per lisence annually, F-secure would make a million Euro profit on the Avira SDK (alone for the Netherlands and all other ISP's using F-secure would add to F-secure profit margin, because SDK-license is already paid by Dutch ISP contract).

This leaves me wondering about the high-debt claim. Unless WithSecure ripped F-secure off by asking a gigantic IP-payment for the code they share (but other members have posted that DeepGuard has disappeared in the F-secure home user AV, making this a very unlikely scenario) :unsure:
 
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According to the financial report publishes by F-Secure, their debt is 157 million euro, down by 12.5% this year.


There isn’t much that WithSecure could charge F-Secure for.

Their number of patents is extremely low

I see no more than 10 patents there.

These are the WithSecure patents:

In comparison, Gen Digital debt is more than 7 billion USD.
 
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simmerskool said:
I roast green coffee beans striving for the perfect cup. & what you wrote as "fact" re "the difference" is NOT really a fact is it -- it's your supposition, & not factual at all :ROFLMAO:
(no offense)
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Roasting your own green beans? respect, i guess. Feels like a sisyphean effort for hot bean water but hey, we all have our rituals. I tried it once in a popcorn popper back in '14 and just set off the smoke alarm, neighbors loved that.

Regarding the fact vs supposition thing, semantics, really. Call it an educated guess if it makes you feel better, or a 'vibe based assessment. The epistemology of forum posting is shaky ground anyway, no offense taken. Just don't ask me to drink the light roast.
 
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LinuxFan58 said:
@Trident thanks, for the info and debunking the high-debt claim (y)

@bazang a forum needs alternative visions and statements (otherwise it would be boring), you surely spice up discussion!. Hope you have no hard feelings. In the Netherlands we have a saying "when you throw balls at others, you also need to be ready to catch one yourself" ;)
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User, Role, Contribution, Data Quality.

Trident,Technical Analyst, Exposed the Avira Engine usage & Debt Risks., (Verified)

Bazang, Strategic Analyst," Identified the ""CSP Partnership"" & Financial Fix.", (Verified)

LinuxFan58, Hostile/Skeptic, Provided zero documents, demeaning behavior.,NULL (Noise)
 
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LinuxFan58 said:
Funny when a company is announcing a major agreement, some members consider it as a funeral announcement,
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Who said it was a funeral announcement? How could you even interpret anyone's words as meaning that?


LinuxFan58 said:
Just wondering what the facts are under statements.
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You do realize that both F-SECURE and WithSecure are public companies, right? The financial data is all publicly available. Research it.

Analysts agree with Gordon Geco - both are dogs with fleas. You think they're wrong? - then take it up with them directly.

F- Secure:
Revenue - 146 MM Euros
Debt - 164 MM Euros
EBITA - 52 MM Euros
Growth - 1.8% (declining)
Debt Leverage Ratio - 3.1X
Employees: 529 (terminations 33 with more planned to reduce expenses)
Profit per employee: 40,000 Euros (after taxes)

Gen Digital
Revenue - 3.92 BB USD
Debt - $8.3 BB USD
EBITA - $2 BB USD
Growth - 4% (accelerating)
Debt Leverage Ratio - 3.6X (down from 6.4X in late 2024)
Employees - 3,500
Profit per employee: $162,857 USD (after taxes)

Gen Digital - scale, profitability, cash generation, powerful connections within world financial centers
F-SECURE - niche growth, small margins, higher leverage

NOTE: Financial data is from market analysts. Think their data and calculations are wrong? - then take it up with them directly.
 
bazang said:
You do realize that both F-SECURE and WithSecure are public companies, right? The financial data is all publicly available. Research it.

F- Secure:
Debt Leverage Ratio - 3.1X

Gen Digital
Debt Leverage Ratio - 3.6X (down from 6.4X in late 2024)
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May be you should dive into your school books again.

For companies a debt leverage ratio below 2 is considered excellent, from 2 to 3 as conservative (good), from 3 to 4 as moderate, from 4 to 5 as elevated, from 5 to 6 as concerning and above 6 as risky.

In sectors with predictable income with subscription based revenues higher debt-ratio's are common and accepted (Gen Digital coming from 6.4x)

F-Secure with 3.1 does well (even better than Gen Digital with 3.6.)

You just debunked your own claim :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:

1764776350336.png
 
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Divergent said:
User, Role, Contribution, Data Quality.

Trident,Technical Analyst, Exposed the Avira Engine usage & Debt Risks., (Verified)

Bazang, Strategic Analyst," Identified the ""CSP Partnership"" & Financial Fix.", (Verified)

LinuxFan58, Hostile/Skeptic, Provided zero documents, demeaning behavior.,NULL (Noise)
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Ad hominem and other distracting attacks do not add anything useful to the conversation​

bailing out of this conversation :)
 
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Some people here ate a chocolate bar the size of a headstone.
LinuxFan58 said:
May be you should dive into your school books again.

For companies a debt leverage ratio below 2 is considered excellent, from 2 to 3 as conservative (good), from 3 to 4 as moderate, from 4 to 5 as elevated, from 5 to 6 as concerning and above 6 as risky.

In sectors with predictable income with subscription based revenues higher debt-ratio's are common and accepted (Gen Digital coming from 6.4x)

F-Secure with 3.1 does well (even better than Gen Digital with 3.6.)

You just debunked your own claim :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:

View attachment 293446
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I never made a single claim. I made all statements of fact.

F-SECURE and WithSecure are all Analyst rated SELL, SELL, SELL.

F-SECURE's 3.1 leverage ratio makes no difference since its growth is on the decline. Telecoms and Parter Channels are not renewing. In the latest filings and Shareholder Report, plus on the CEO conference call, the CEO stated the company is facing strong downward margin pressures and it expects more layoffs to happen.

Try harder.
 
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