New Update F-Secure is negotiating a major agreement

[Zero Knowledge]

The very least a security company or any company/cooperation these days can do is create a subreddit or IG/FB/X account to receive issues and feedback.

And you know why some companies hate forums like these & reddit etc? Its because they are afraid of negative feedback and criticism. It shows you what drives some companies, they are more interested in protecting their image than engaging with their paying customers. You can have all the bull.##### marketing campaigns and media releases but people will decide their own opinion and the internet will always be the internet.

I'm actually very supportive of companies who have a subreddit where honest feedback can be given, yes their is moderation but you can't hide from the world forever.

People power still exists and people still do vote with their wallets thankfully

 

[bazang]

Since when did forums ever affected the bottom line of any company? The user % of ANY forum members is miniscule to the greater consumer base.

Correct. It would behoove certain developers to understand that use of forums, particularly MT, for self-promotion of their products that they are wasting their effort, time, and money - except that they use "beta" testers - which are those people who are willing to perform the testing that the developer is not willing to pay for themselves by contracting with or hiring a right proper QA\QC team or engagement.

Even though the user gets a "free" license, most don't realize that they're performing work valued at 30+ Euros per hour and giving it away to a developer that provides a license not even worth 1 hour of testing labor rate in return. That's a terrible bargain for the "beta" tester.

The problem is not the forum members, but the developer.

Forums and online promotions via social media are almost never profitable.

@Divergent you should chime in here.

 

[Trident]

But would Gen Digital want to buy out a company whose (now?) greater share and market is providing their rebranded AV software especially for ISP's? Would they want the headache of maintaining that market, unless they thought for some reason it was profitable?

They are not gonna allow them to buy F-Secure, even the Avast merger had hard time being approved.

 

[Divergent]

Correct. It would behoove certain developers to understand that use of forums, particularly MT, for self-promotion of their products that they are wasting their effort, time, and money - except that they use "beta" testers - which are those people who are willing to perform the testing that the developer is not willing to pay for themselves by contracting with or hiring a right proper QA\QC team or engagement.

Even though the user gets a "free" license, most don't realize that they're performing work valued at 30+ Euros per hour and giving it away to a developer that provides a license not even worth 1 hour of testing labor rate in return. That's a terrible bargain for the "beta" tester.

The problem is not the forum members, but the developer.

Forums and online promotions via social media are almost never profitable.

@Divergent you should chime in here.

It's definitely a cheap way to get visibility, but as you said, whether it's profitable is another question. Forum crowds are tough, they are the most critical and least likely to pay full price. Devs might get bug reports, but they also risk getting their product torn apart publicly by knowledgeable users if it's not up to par. It's a high-risk, low-cost marketing channel, but not a replacement for a real business strategy.

 

[Zero Knowledge]

Even though the user gets a "free" license, most don't realize that they're performing work valued at 30+ Euros per hour and giving it away to a developer that provides a license not even worth 1 hour of testing labor rate in return. That's a terrible bargain for the "beta" tester.

The problem is not the forum members, but the developer.

Rarely I agree with you but THIS 100%. People are being used by software companies for cheap Q&A testers. It happens a lot n cybersec forums and reddit's where companies give away worthless licenses or free seats and get back cheap testing and bug hunting for nothing. It's basically stealing and using people for cheap labor.

 

[simmerskool]

Rarely I agree with you but THIS 100%. People are being used by software companies for cheap Q&A testers. It happens a lot n cybersec forums and reddit's where companies give away worthless licenses or free seats and get back cheap testing and bug hunting for nothing. It's basically stealing and using people for cheap labor.

well I dunno, (I don't read reddit) and I have used Voodooshield (now Cyberlock) for 10+ years, and I don't feel "used" and if I provided any useful feedback, good. I suppose there are some software companies I would not beta test for...

 

[Zero Knowledge]

well I dunno, (I don't read reddit) and I have used Voodooshield (now Cyberlock) for 10+ years, and I don't feel "used" and if I provided any useful feedback, good. I suppose there are some software companies I would not beta test for...

Yeah sorry I used some very strong language there It's not black or white simmerskool

The thing with danb and Cyberlock is that he gives back to the community and participates through lifetime license giveaways and offers discounts on licenses and releases new tools for free. I really do support him and I hope he gets his pay day like WFC creator got with MB, I hope one day we will see him working @ Norton or CrowdStrike.

But there has been in the past a lot of freeloaders in the security and privacy industry, it's not just IT but many industries have used this model for too long without giving back to the people who have supported, developed and tested their products.

 

[simmerskool]

Yeah sorry I used some very strong language there It's not black or white simmerskool

The thing with danb and Cyberlock is that he gives back to the community and participates through lifetime license giveaways and offers discounts on licenses and releases new tools for free. I really do support him and I hope he gets his pay day like WFC creator got with MB,

No problem. I don't see @danb working for Norton, etc. -- I get the sense he likes what he is doing.

 

[Zero Knowledge]

No problem. I don't see @danb working for Norton, etc. -- I get the sense he likes what he is doing.

You would be surprised, makes the world go around. + I think incorporating danb's tech into mainstream applications would be a challenge that would drive you.

I just wish people who work hard and support the security/privacy industry well, they spend hours #####..talking with us on forums and testing code. Not an easy job!

 

[simmerskool]

You would be surprised, makes the world go around. + I think incorporating danb's tech into mainstream applications would be a challenge that would drive you.

I just wish people who work hard and support the security/privacy industry well, they spend hours #####..talking with us on forums and testing code. Not an easy job!

I'm thinking Norton maybe working for @danb -- sure @danb's tech getting into mainstream apps, and getting big bucks for it

 

[Digmor Crusher]

I believe Dan asked Malwarebytes if they wanted a partnership and they declined.

 

[rashmi]

I believe Dan asked Malwarebytes if they wanted a partnership and they declined.

I believe it was Emsisoft!

 

[Digmor Crusher]

I believe it was Emsisoft!

Don't know, I could be wrong.

 

[Trident]

@Divergent you should chime in here.

He is "chiming in here" as who exactly? As a developer, as a beta tester, as a forum administrator, business owner? I just wanna understand...?

He did quite a lot of "30-euro an hour work" pro-bono for AppGuard back in the days, didn't he?

As well as quite a lot of promotion on this forum that supposedly isn't for promotion.

 

[bazang]

It's definitely a cheap way to get visibility, but as you said, whether it's profitable is another question. Forum crowds are tough, they are the most critical and least likely to pay full price. Devs might get bug reports, but they also risk getting their product torn apart publicly by knowledgeable users if it's not up to par. It's a high-risk, low-cost marketing channel, but not a replacement for a real business strategy.

People on forums being critical will never affect any software negatively. Just look at Windows, Office, and Bitdefender.

well I dunno, (I don't read reddit) and I have used Voodooshield (now Cyberlock) for 10+ years, and I don't feel "used" and if I provided any useful feedback, good. I suppose there are some software companies I would not beta test for...

Even if you do it willingly, you're still being exploited.

He is "chiming in here" as who exactly? As a developer, as a beta tester, as a forum administrator, business owner? I just wanna understand...?

Whomever they want to be. What does it matter? Is there a standard or criteria for participation or expression?

He did quite a lot of "30-euro an hour work" pro-bono for AppGuard back in the days, didn't he?

Who? What is AppGuard and how is relevant or pertinent to anything?

As well as quite a lot of promotion on this forum that supposedly isn't for promotion.

Promoting what exactly?

 

[Jonny Quest]

Is my thread starting to derail?

 

[simmerskool]

bazang said:
Even if you do it willingly, you're still being exploited.

...only in the most general broad definiation of exploited. I asked chatGPT 5.1 and it seems to disagree with your interpretation.

"If it’s intentional, willing, mutual, and you’re not being harmed or coerced, then it really isn’t “exploitation” in the usual sense.
Exploitation normally implies one-sided advantage + unfairness + lack of real consent.
Better words depend on the flavor you want:

Neutral/positive spin​

• Mutual benefit
• Exchange
• Arrangement
• Collaboration
• Quid pro quo (fancy Latin for “you get something, I get something”)
• Symbiosis (if you want to sound like a biologist)"

 

[Divine_Barakah]

People on forums being critical will never affect any software negatively. Just look at Windows, Office, and Bitdefender.

I disagree here. Your comparing products and services that people are either forced to use or don't know how or can't use anything else with a small product with a small user base in a fierce market.

Microsoft does not care about ordinary customers because it has a very huge market share. F-Secure on the other hand is a small company in comparison to Microsoft or Bitdefender and of course users negative feedback can affect them.

 

[Divergent]

bazang said:
Even if you do it willingly, you're still being exploited.

...only in the most general broad definiation of exploited. I asked chatGPT 5.1 and it seems to disagree with your interpretation.

"If it’s intentional, willing, mutual, and you’re not being harmed or coerced, then it really isn’t “exploitation” in the usual sense.
Exploitation normally implies one-sided advantage + unfairness + lack of real consent.
Better words depend on the flavor you want:

Neutral/positive spin​

• Mutual benefit
• Exchange
• Arrangement
• Collaboration
• Quid pro quo (fancy Latin for “you get something, I get something”)
• Symbiosis (if you want to sound like a biologist)"

Oh, this is rich. We’re citing the predictive text engine on moral philosophy now? That’s like asking a fox for a nuanced take on hen-house security.

Here’s the rub, and I say this as someone who’s agreed to plenty of terrible deals with a smile on my face, consent doesn’t erase exploitation. The bot is giving you the corporate legal defense, the "nobody held a gun to your head" argument. But that ignores the massive, looming specter of leverage.

If I’m drowning and you offer to sell me a life vest for the deed to my house, and I scream "YES", that is technically a "mutual arrangement." I was willing. I wasn’t coerced. But you’re still stripping me for parts because you have the upper hand. The choice was illusory because the alternative was sinking.

The machine isn't analyzing the ethics, it's just regurgitating the most statistically probable, safe definition it found in its training data. "Symbiosis." Please. I need another coffee before I can tackle that level of delusion.

 

[Jonny Quest]

I disagree here. Your comparing products and services that people are either forced to use or don't know how or can't use anything else with a small product with a small user base in a fierce market.

Microsoft does not care about ordinary customers because it has a very huge market share. F-Secure on the other hand is a small company in comparison to Microsoft or Bitdefender and of course users negative feedback can affect them.

I believe the negative feedback here as well as on the F-Secure forum has had a negative effect, especially after the v25 downgrade.

You're right, with their being a smaller niche company, it can take a greater toll.