In hot pursuit of elusive threats: AI-driven behavior-based blocking stops attacks in their tracks

SeriousHoax

Level 47
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Well-known
Mar 16, 2019
3,634
Microsoft will never lock down anything. It caters to "Users that want to use stuff." Apple at least got it mostly right - which is to strictly limit what users can do.
I think if every OS starts locking down everything that wouldn't be appreciated. I would feel like I'm living in North Korea or something. There should always be options. Microsoft and Apple are two different companies with different mindset and goals. Microsoft at least gives the option to lock their system down. Similar things can be said for Android and iOS. iOS doesn't even give users some basic choices. You have to do everything according to their wish. Suppression of speech or what! The openness of Android made them successful. Most of apple products are ridiculously expensive too so not a valid choice for many people.
Anyway, here my main point is, every OS shouldn't go around and locking everything down. No one's going to blame Windows if they turn off their AV before running a malicious program.
 
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ForgottenSeer 823865

I will add my little salt and pepper on this discussion.
There is difference between being infected by a machine targeted by an attacker and a machine infected by negligence like disabling AV to install cracks .

The first case, I will be more merciful. The second, the dude must be sued and accountable for all the damages I got.

Like cars, you own something potentially dangerous, you are responsible for it, and obliged to keep it in good shape and use it the safest way possible.
If not and you kill someone, you are accountable, whatever you say.
 
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ForgottenSeer 72227

That is the problem expectation right there. Everyone thinks that they should be able to do what they want to do on their device. That way of thinking is an anchronism - way out of touch with the current realities of digital security. Wrong. Because what you do on your device clearly affects others. That whole userland way of thinking needs to be stopped. If you infect my system and cause damages, guess what ? I'm going to sue you. And I will win. If you are an employee, not only will I fire you, I will also sue you and win. You will pay for the damages. So it is in your best interests to have a device that prevents you from shooting yourself in the foot and then infecting others.

I hear what you are saying, but I wouldn't assume that you will win that court case you are speaking of. As an employer you will be questioned on whether you provided proper training and education, along with proper security measures. All the employee has to argue is that you didn't provide them with such info and quite frankly the case may not necessarily go the way you think it will go. Similarly you would have to prove intent that someone purposefully and knowingly did this to harm you, which would be very, VERY difficult to prove. You can't just use the argument that they should know better and quite frankly you would have to provide evidence that you did provide proper training, just saying yes I did won't be enough.

I get what you are saying about locking things down so these things don't happen, but at the end of the day, computers need to be used, software needs to be used. Whether it's at home, or an enterprise, stuff needs to get done. You can have a million security measures in place, but if they become so infuriating that they get in the way of simple things, then yes whats the point of using a computer? It's this approach that gets people to turn off their real-time protection, disable UAC, etc...There isn't some licencing exam people have to go through to own and use a computer like they would driving a car, so education on safe computing habits is paramount. Thing is, this part is often forgotten in all of this. I see it all the time, people say, well I put x product on my family/friends computers to keep them safe because they do x,y and z. That's great and all, but did you do any education on how to stay safe online (ie: don't open emails/attachments from those you don't know, or are expecting, don't click on ads and random links, etc...)? Usually the answer is no. So they have a better security suite, but they haven't changed their habits whats so ever, so at some point, no matter how good this program is, they will get infected, as we all know, no product is perfect.

As I've said I see where your coming from, but unfortunately the world isn't as black and white as you make it out to be. It would be very nice that everyone could be on the same page and infections are minimal, but unfortunately this is not how computers and networks have been setup/designed. Right or wrong, does there need to be a better approach, yes, but unfortunately this world that you speak of doesn't exist and I don't think it ever will.

There is difference between being infected by a machine targeted by an attacker and a machine infected by negligence like disabling AV to install cracks .

The first case, I will be more merciful. The second, the dude must be sued and accountable for all the damages I got.

Good point, but again it would be a hard case to win. As I've said above, the employer would have to shoulder some of the blame for not educating their employees and setting up proper security measures. As a business, employees shouldn't have access to change any settings, or disable any protection measures. If they do, then it's the employers fault for not setting things up properly. Again, proving intent to harm you would be difficult to prove. Saying that they should know better won't be a good argument, as the consequences aren't as dire (ie: death) and necessarily as well understood and unsafe driving is known for.
 
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ForgottenSeer 823865

Computer security and safe practices should be taught at school at early stage, at the end, an exam should be imposed.
When buying a computer , you should sign a form saying you must follow safe practices. after signing, if you cause damages by negligence , you will be sued under the full extent of the law.
Also, companies shouldn't recruit those who failed the said exam.

By doing this you thwart most of the issues we discussed above.
 

blackice

Level 38
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Well-known
Apr 1, 2019
2,779
Computer security and safe practices should be taught at school at early stage, at the end, an exam should be imposed.
When buying a computer , you should sign a form saying you must follow safe practices. after signing, if you cause damages by negligence , you will be sued under the full extent of the law.
Also, companies shouldn't recruit those who failed the said exam.

By doing this you thwart most of the issues we discussed above.
This is a bit extreme, and negligence in tort definitely has unintended reach. But, I very much agree education on good digital hygiene and safe practices should be compulsory just as economics or government should be.

Anyway, this thread is well off the rails. To the original topic, I hope MS continues to improve WD, especially in the home editions as this will help in the fight against malware at large. Maybe one day MS will document what the hell is going on in the home editions.
 
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ForgottenSeer 823865

Anyway, this thread is well off the rails. To the original topic, I hope MS continues to improve WD, especially in the home editions as this will help in the fight against malware at large. Maybe one day MS will document what the hell is going on in the home editions.
That won't happen soon, because one department even doesn't know what the others are doing...
 

Handsome Recluse

Level 23
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Nov 17, 2016
1,242
People uses computers all the time. cant forget that.
People currently don't use safe practices all the time.
Assumption that people will use what they are taught enough to remember them.

All the court talks remind me of the minor who got persecuted from her own nudes.
Also the guy who sued his wife over a very convincing make up.
 
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ForgottenSeer 72227

Computer security and safe practices should be taught at school at early stage, at the end, an exam should be imposed.
When buying a computer , you should sign a form saying you must follow safe practices. after signing, if you cause damages by negligence , you will be sued under the full extent of the law.
Also, companies shouldn't recruit those who failed the said exam.

By doing this you thwart most of the issues we discussed above.


I agree that computing safety really need to be taught at an early age and constantly reinforced. Its really the big gap in all of this IMHO.

The rest of your point is a little extreme and while I fully understand what you mean, it will never happen. The issue in all of this is assessing damage, what does that mean in all of this?, what are the consequences of said damage? So on and so forth. As I said previously, proving that they did it with full intent of harming you, which will be next to near impossible to prove, would be the only way of successfully winning any court case. If the damage is that you have to reformat your computer, but you suffered no financial harm, or none of your personal data was harvested in anyway, I don't know what you aim to get of of it, hypothetically speaking.

The difference between owning/driving a car, owning a gun, etc.. and this is that the former has the very well understood notion that someone, or someones can die from irresponsible use. Hetting infected with malware doesn't have that consequence, so in essence it gets put on a different pedestal. If we do this with computers, might as well do it with stove tops, bbqs and such as fires happen all the time when they are left on and unattended for an extended amount of time.

Anyways, this has gone off topic too much, it was a great friendly discussion. :)(y)
 
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Lenny_Fox

Level 22
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Well-known
Oct 1, 2019
1,120
I don’t need the hassle of default deny since I am cautious about what I . . .
My girlfriend already finished university and got a nice job. Because she needed to commute to a city with inefficient public tranport, we bought a car. She wanted a specific model. We (she) had two options a more luxury version with parking assist and a little more mileage or a less gadgets filled version with less mileage. Since she has to drive she had the last call and she choose the model with less options (because she liked the color). I asked do you really . . . yes, she told me I will be cautious when parking . . .

Two weeks ago was the first day she had to work late (until dark). In a hurry she drove backwards making an L-turn . . . and you can image no beep, no warning for the large stone the landscapers had placed to mark the beginning of the nice garden before the office where she works. I am sure she was careful and cautious with her 1.5 year old car. But she did not see the rock.

Malware has no visible malware tags and often comes disguished. So I would prefer a default deny over risking shoot in the foot errors, no matter how careful you are. With OS-armor and Hard_Configurator as available freebies even on windows Home versions, it is worth to spend to get a grip on default deny.

P.S. Now you know the reason why I am using a 80 euro 9 year old laptop :) We spend the money I earned with my part time job as a cook on the repair of her car :cry:
 

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