Chuck57

Level 4
Verified
The cloud is cool, and I'm sure it's secure and all that, but average citizen doesn't know what the cloud is, how it works, what it's for and, in some cases, how to even access it. They just want a computer they can turn on and use, and do whatever they're doing right there on their drive where they don't have to take an extra step to access it. The cloud and other things are for people a notch or two above their capability.

I use One Drive because it offers a few Gigs for free. I don't use anything else, and I don't store important or valuable data on it. Other people I know don't take advantage of even One Drive. Valuable data goes to my external. My brother in law won't use an external drive, and would never consider using the cloud.
 

brigantes

Level 1
brigantes,
You insist to follow the definition which is not widely accepted (even if you think so).

It is a widely accepted definition. In fact the definition comes from the OEMs and the hardware associations themselves. The definition just seems to be particularly unpopular and a trigger here at MalwareTips.


brigantes,
Of course, there is nothing wrong with the definition " old software or hardware that is still in use", but it is not especially precise (the wheel is a legacy technology?).

The wheel is legacy technology. Of course it is. An "automobile" that does not use wheels is not legacy technology.

The formal definition of legacy is that the technology is obsolete in one aspect or another. Combustion engines are legacy technology. It does not matter that they are used widely. The combustion engine is destroying our planet. Just because people refuse to pay for more expensive, innovative technology and refuse to change does not make combustion engines current technology.

LOL, everybody knows tape drives are legacy. They are in the same class as COBOL servers and systems that banks and financial institutions refuse to change due to costs and disruptions to business operations.

Don't confuse relevance and demand (use cases) as an indicator of current technology status. Use case is driven most by price. Despite all of the automotive engineer's best efforts, the combustion engine is still highly inefficient and a huge polluter. However, given the fact that nobody wants to pay for expensive bleeding edge innovative auto tech, the world is stuck with legacy.


Legacy or not, HDD will be around for a long time because they're cheap, they hold terabytes of data now, and your average computer user will buy them because of it. They look at Super Whiz Bang laptop with 8G RAM and 500G SSD for $899, and Average laptop with a 10 terabyte HDD and 8G RAM for $599. First, they ask what SSD means because they know nothing about computers or drives. Then they'll ask what is the difference because they don't know what gigabytes and terabytes are. Then, after being told, they'll buy the HDD because it holds more data than they'll ever need, and most important, it's $300 cheaper.

Exactly. HDD hangs on only because of cheap price. In UK or US try to find a whole bunch of systems with HDD. You will not find them except under 250 GB with the HDD as the primary OS drive. That is because OEMs consider HDD obsolete technology. As a courtesy to consumers, they offer really cheap HDD systems. Otherwise, very few consumers want HDD.


Yeah it won't be a legacy technology at least till optane can replace HDD on price per TB (probably a decade or half)

HDD is already obsolete technology.

Nobody is getting it. It has to do with age, not wide use or support. An obsolete technology is not one that is "dead" and nobody uses it. That is a completely wrong definition. Industry determines a technology with little or incremental improvements as obsolete and legacy.

If HDD was not so cheap, nobody would be using it. It's primary use case is as a backup storage and not the primary OS drive.
 
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Andy Ful

Level 64
Verified
Trusted
Content Creator
It is a widely accepted definition. In fact the definition comes from the OEMs and the hardware associations themselves. The definition just seems to be particularly unpopular and a trigger here at MalwareTips.
...
... and not popular for the UK government. :)
Be safe in your world.(y)
I wish that my world could be so simple (it is not):
 
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Tutman

Level 7
HDD is already obsolete technology.

Nobody is getting it. It has to do with age, not wide use or support. An obsolete technology is not one that is "dead" and nobody uses it. That is a completely wrong definition. Industry determines a technology with little or incremental improvements as obsolete and legacy.

If HDD was not so cheap, nobody would be using it.
Dictionary definition:

ob·so·lete

adjective
adjective: obsolete

no longer produced or used; out of date.
"the disposal of old and obsolete machinery"
____________________________________________
So HDD are NOT "obsolete"!
 

Andy Ful

Level 64
Verified
Trusted
Content Creator
...
Industry determines a technology with little or incremental improvements as obsolete and legacy.
...
Now we know that whole Intel CPU technology is legacy. Thanks for proving it for the first time.;)
Let's go for quantum processors and Quantum Defender.:) It will fight the malware which can be in the superposition of the quantum state infecting/not-infecting. Furthermore, the quantum hardware can be in the quantum state legacy/non-legacy which will make the discussion about legacy more interesting.
 
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Vitali Ortzi

Level 20
Verified
It is a widely accepted definition. In fact the definition comes from the OEMs and the hardware associations themselves. The definition just seems to be particularly unpopular and a trigger here at MalwareTips.




The wheel is legacy technology. Of course it is. An "automobile" that does not use wheels is not legacy technology.

The formal definition of legacy is that the technology is obsolete in one aspect or another. Combustion engines are legacy technology. It does not matter that they are used widely. The combustion engine is destroying our planet. Just because people refuse to pay for more expensive, innovative technology and refuse to change does not make combustion engines current technology.

LOL, everybody knows tape drives are legacy. They are in the same class as COBOL servers and systems that banks and financial institutions refuse to change due to costs and disruptions to business operations.

Don't confuse relevance and demand (use cases) as an indicator of current technology status. Use case is driven most by price. Despite all of the automotive engineer's best efforts, the combustion engine is still highly inefficient and a huge polluter. However, given the fact that nobody wants to pay for expensive bleeding edge innovative auto tech, the world is stuck with legacy.




Exactly. HDD hangs on only because of cheap price. In UK or US try to find a whole bunch of systems with HDD. You will not find them except under 250 GB with the HDD as the primary OS drive. That is because OEMs consider HDD obsolete technology. As a courtesy to consumers, they offer really cheap HDD systems. Otherwise, very few consumers want HDD.




HDD is already obsolete technology.

Nobody is getting it. It has to do with age, not wide use or support. An obsolete technology is not one that is "dead" and nobody uses it. That is a completely wrong definition. Industry determines a technology with little or incremental improvements as obsolete and legacy.

If HDD was not so cheap, nobody would be using it. It's primary use case is as a backup storage and not the primary OS drive.
Other then tape (tape has too much flaws ) I can't find any current product you can technically buy with better TB per price then an HDD.
I really hope to see SSD prices go down but still since I have had so many SSD drives fail (I mostly bought the inferior QLC ones though) it's pretty hard to justify on a large scale at least till optane with it's endurance gets mainstream.
 

Chuck57

Level 4
Verified
Price and size will determine whether people move to SSD from hard disks. Your average computer user doesn't care about the latest and greatest storage device. They don't even know what one is, or how their computer does what it does, and they don't care that they don't know. They look at the price tag, read the propaganda about the computer, and if the price is good and it will do what they want, they buy it.

Eventually, if SSD becomes as inexpensive as a HDD, and begins offering as many gigs of storage as an HDD, people will begin buying computers equipped with them without even realizing they're getting an SSD.

The public doesn't care about drives. All they want is for the laptop/desktop to turn on when they push the button and to do what they want it to do.
 

mlnevese

Level 22
Verified
Price and size will determine whether people move to SSD from hard disks. Your average computer user doesn't care about the latest and greatest storage device. They don't even know what one is, or how their computer does what it does, and they don't care that they don't know. They look at the price tag, read the propaganda about the computer, and if the price is good and it will do what they want, they buy it.

Eventually, if SSD becomes as inexpensive as a HDD, and begins offering as many gigs of storage as an HDD, people will begin buying computers equipped with them without even realizing they're getting an SSD.

The public doesn't care about drives. All they want is for the laptop/desktop to turn on when they push the button and to do what they want it to do.

I wished more people in technical forums understood this. A user who is not an IT professional or like computers as a hobby does not want or need to know how their computers/software work. That's why fully automated software with few tweaking options are popular in the consumer market.

That's more or less my relationship with cars. i know what fuel to use and what oiil and when I need to take it for a revision. Otherwise I dont know or care how it works as long as it turns on and takes me where I want to go.
 
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brigantes

Level 1
Now we know that whole Intel CPU technology is legacy. Thanks for proving it for the first time.;)
Let's go for quantum processors and Quantum Defender.:) It will fight the malware which can be in the superposition of the quantum state infecting/not-infecting. Furthermore, the quantum hardware can be in the quantum state legacy/non-legacy which will make the discussion about legacy more interesting.

You keep confusing wide-spread use or cost reduction as evidence that the technology is not outdated. OEMS still use Pentium single core chips in certain products because of the price point.

The only reason HDD are used today is for cost reduction. In data centers those cost savings add up to billions of dollars - a not insignificant savings.


Dictionary definition:

ob·so·lete

adjective
adjective: obsolete

no longer produced or used; out of date.
"the disposal of old and obsolete machinery"
____________________________________________
So HDD are NOT "obsolete"!

Please do not quote common dictionary meanings that support your agenda. You are deliberately using a definition that is outside the context of the relevant facts to IT hardware.

What is legacy hardware?



Image: slideshare.net

Term used to describe old software or hardware that is still in use. When referring to a legacy hardware device, this commonly indicates that the device contains older hardware such as jumpers or dip switches to configure the device. For backward compatibility, many software programs and computers commonly support legacy software or legacy devices. There is little or incremental technology improvement over time.

Like the image says, there is no formally established definition of a "legacy hardware." However, there is the OEM industry and then there is the definition that MalwareTips members want it to be.

Eventually, if SSD becomes as inexpensive as a HDD, and begins offering as many gigs of storage as an HDD, people will begin buying computers equipped with them without even realizing they're getting an SSD.

The public doesn't care about drives. All they want is for the laptop/desktop to turn on when they push the button and to do what they want it to do.

That day has been here for at least the past 5 years. It is difficult to find systems with the OS running on a HDD in either the UK or US.

OEMs continue to make HDDs due to their low cost - which is exactly what industry wants (very low cost) and consumers that want very low cost systems.

If SSD storage cost the same as HDD or tapes, almost nobody would use either one.
 

Chuck57

Level 4
Verified
Really? Hard to find HDD? Last week, wife and I were out at several stores, Best Buy, Staples, Office Depot, etc.....or she was. I just trailed along. Most of the computers I saw were HDD. I did see a few SSDs, but they were a tiny minority. We didn't visit a WalMart (thank God), but I'm sure all in that store All the laptops would have HDD installed.
 

Vitali Ortzi

Level 20
Verified
Really? Hard to find HDD? Last week, wife and I were out at several stores, Best Buy, Staples, Office Depot, etc.....or she was. I just trailed along. Most of the computers I saw were HDD. I did see a few SSDs, but they were a tiny minority. We didn't visit a WalMart (thank God), but I'm sure all in that store All the laptops would have HDD installed.
I want to the closest store that has some hardware parts in my country and it didn't have a single HDD or even sata cables to connect the 2.5 ssds had to spend 25% more for half the storage to just get an OS running on a computer I was setting up.
I really hope this practice won't get popular anyway it was a really tiny store .
Next time I would just buy a Seagate expansion or cheaper but slower easystore(just requires a piece of tape on v3.3 to get it properly working) an mass quantity to have some dam storage(gonna shuck it).
Just can't wait till black Friday to set up a decent server :(
And use leftovers for gaming with SSD+ cheapass ram as cache and running it at raid for huge performance increase.
 

Tutman

Level 7
Please do not quote common dictionary meanings that support your agenda. You are deliberately using a definition that is outside the context of the relevant facts to IT hardware.

What is legacy hardware?



Image: slideshare.net

Term used to describe old software or hardware that is still in use. When referring to a legacy hardware device, this commonly indicates that the device contains older hardware such as jumpers or dip switches to configure the device. For backward compatibility, many software programs and computers commonly support legacy software or legacy devices. There is little or incremental technology improvement over time.

Like the image says, there is no formally established definition of a "legacy hardware." However, there is the OEM industry and then there is the definition that MalwareTips members want it to be.
I did NOT say anything about "Legacy" I quoted that in reference to you saying it was OBSOLETE. Please don't quote standard IT dictionary terms about a DIFFERENT word.
 
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Andy Ful

Level 64
Verified
Trusted
Content Creator
...
What is legacy hardware?
...
You have probably noticed the fragment: "There is no formally accepted definition of LEGACY SYSTEM". So, this definition is only the author's proposition and it is not better than other definitions (as I already noticed in one of my posts). Furthermore, it contains another interesting fragment: "is deemed not to satisfy current regulatory expectations."
This definition has nothing to do with your statements and rather confirms that HDD is not legacy yet.

I have a proposition. If you want to continue the discussion about legacy systems, legacy technology, and legacy HDDs then it is not appropriate here. Please open a separate thread, because this long discussion is off-topic here.(y)

Edit.
It is possible to move the off-topic posts about a legacy to the new thread.
 
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brigantes

Level 1
This definition has nothing to do with your statements and rather confirms that HDD is not legacy yet.

The system OEMs and IT industry use the definition I have provided for legacy hardware. The reference to regulatory compliance is not relevant within the context of this discussion.

If HDDs were not legacy, then all systems would ship with them today. But they do not because HDD is obsolete technology for ages. HDD is old technology and it is problematic technology because modern OSes and applications do not run all that well on them. SSD is the current state of the art technology. That is why OEMs ship virtually all SSD systems.
 

Chuck57

Level 4
Verified
I just have to ask this. Whether it's legacy or not...........Who Cares?

The people, the consumer, if you ask a thousand of them what means of storage their computer uses, 995 won't know. They don't care. It works for them, and that's what matters. And, I include myself in that number. I know I'm running a 1T HDD, but I've never looked to see who made it, and I don't care. It does fine.
 

Andy Ful

Level 64
Verified
Trusted
Content Creator
The system OEMs and IT industry use the definition I have provided for legacy hardware. The reference to regulatory compliance is not relevant within the context of this discussion.

If HDDs were not legacy, then all systems would ship with them today. But they do not because HDD is obsolete technology for ages. HDD is old technology and it is problematic technology because modern OSes and applications do not run all that well on them. SSD is the current state of the art technology. That is why OEMs ship virtually all SSD systems.
You noted some good points (although your reasoning can be easily questioned in some other important points).
But, please stop the legacy nonsense here.:((y)
 

brigantes

Level 1
I just have to ask this. Whether it's legacy or not...........Who Cares?

The people, the consumer, if you ask a thousand of them what means of storage their computer uses, 995 won't know. They don't care. It works for them, and that's what matters. And, I include myself in that number. I know I'm running a 1T HDD, but I've never looked to see who made it, and I don't care. It does fine.

Sure, but we are talking about MalwareTips members and what they have posited in this thread.

The relevance of HDD is that there are a number of members who are perturbed that Microsoft has not put any effort into improving WD I\O and other performance issues on HDD. The argument is that HDD is still widely used and therefore Microsoft owes it to all those that still use HDD to improve performance on said drives. Well, Microsoft has moved on from HDD technology. The issue of poor WD performance on HDD has been overcome by other events. That is namely SSDs.

But, please stop the legacy nonsense here.:((y)

It isn't nonsense. An HDD is the equivalent of a percolator you place onto the stove to brew coffee. It's obsolete technology. Whereas the current technology is a Keurig. It's a pretty simple concept.

Please stop being triggered over truth and facts.
 
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