Local Host

Level 19
Verified
Regardless of the cause, bug discovery is one of the reasons that Microsoft wants to force updates on everyone. And that's the purpose of these type threads - to inform the unwitting user as to what they might encounter with the post-apocalypse Microsoft update.

If something was working before a forced update and does not work after a forced update - whose fault is that ? It certainly ain't the 3rd-party's fault. And most definitely not the end-user's.
Third-party developers for lack of testing, Microsoft shouldn't be held back because of lazy developers. There's proper channels for testing and certificates for Windows, and it's each developer responsibility to go through them.

I still remember how NVidia refused to work with Microsoft during testing and they've been running into all sorts of issues on Windows 10 due to that, I don't pity NVidia at all.

We're talking of a huge ecosystem that is simply impossible to cover even with the Insider Program, there's all sorts of Software and Builds and any type of combination can have a negative effect.

Microsoft is more than willing to help any developer and will fix any issue on their side ASAP, I doubt they wanna drag any problems due to the media being constantly on top of anything negative towards W10.

Fact is the media is looking for a reason to hate W10 and will use any excuse they get, previous versions of Windows were more unstable and had their fair share of troublesome updates but they never got any traction like W10.
 
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509322

Microsoft is more than willing to help any developer and will fix any issue on their side ASAP...
That statement has no basis in reality. Just ask Eugene Kaspersky about the problems over the years he's had with Microsoft being uncooperative - and I am not talking about the recent disagreement over Windows Defender. His experiences are the norm and not the exception.

No one is holding Microsoft back. The behemoth that is Microsoft, for the most part, does what it wants regardless of what anyone else thinks, requests or wants. And as a matter of course Microsoft's engineering divisions routinely point the finger back at the party that brings a problem to them that is clearly the result of something they did or didn't do.

Microsoft has earned its own reputation in regards to Windows updates over decades. If lots of people think Windows 10 forced updates are garbage, well there's a ton of valid reasons for them to think as they do.

As far as developers being lazy, you must be referring to Microsoft because it is only there where one gets away with working only 40 to 50 hours per week.

It would be different if you phrased your statements as opinions, but instead you make statements of fact when they are anything but accurate.

You remind me very much of mekelek or ispx.
 

danb

From VoodooShield
Verified
Developer
Third-party developers for lack of testing, Microsoft shouldn't be held back because of lazy developers. There's proper channels for testing and certificates for Windows, and it's each developer responsibility to go through them.

I still remember how NVidia refused to work with Microsoft during testing and they've been running into all sorts of issues on Windows 10 due to that, I don't pity NVidia at all.

We're talking of a huge ecosystem that is simply impossible to cover even with the Insider Program, there's all sorts of Software and Builds and any type of combination can have a negative effect.

Microsoft is more than willing to help any developer and will fix any issue on their side ASAP, I doubt they wanna drag any problems due to the media being constantly on top of anything negative towards W10.

Fact is the media is looking for a reason to hate W10 and will use any excuse they get, previous versions of Windows were more unstable and had their fair share of troublesome updates but they never got any traction like W10.
I totally agree... MS has been a lot of help to VS over the years. Especially when it comes to VoodooAi. All I had to do was ask.

They were responsive immediately, and continued to be responsive for months while building our models, and even to this day are still extremely responsive.
 

Local Host

Level 19
Verified
That statement has no basis in reality. Just ask Eugene Kaspersky about the problems over the years he's had with Microsoft being uncooperative - and I am not talking about the recent disagreement over Windows Defender. His experiences are the norm and not the exception.

No one is holding Microsoft back. The behemoth that is Microsoft, for the most part, does what it wants regardless of what anyone else thinks, requests or wants. And as a matter of course Microsoft's engineering divisions routinely point the finger back at the party that brings a problem to them that is clearly the result of something they did or didn't do.

Microsoft has earned its own reputation in regards to Windows updates over decades. If lots of people think Windows 10 forced updates are garbage, well there's a ton of valid reasons for them to think as they do.

As far as developers being lazy, you must be referring to Microsoft because it is only there where one gets away with working only 40 to 50 hours per week.

It would be different if you phrased your statements as opinions, but instead you make statements of fact when they are anything but accurate.

You remind me very much of mekelek or ispx.
Kaspersky didn't try to contact Microsoft and went straight to the media, Microsoft itself that had to contact Kaspersky after seeing the article and the problem was solved.

By law in most countries you cannot work more than 50h a week, so calling Microsoft developers lazy when most of the time they take work home is wrong. Not to mention Microsoft is more than open to feedback to improve and simplify everyone life.

Microsoft forces Updates in the Windows 10 Home Edition cause most users are reckless and lack knowledge in IT to properly manage their computer.
 
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D

Deleted member 65228

Third-party developers for lack of testing, Microsoft shouldn't be held back because of lazy developers. There's proper channels for testing and certificates for Windows, and it's each developer responsibility to go through them.
Third-party software breaking after a forced Windows Update doesn't always mean that the developers of that third-party software lazy!

A third-party developer could have written hundreds of thousands of lines of code (or millions depending on the language and how large the project is), focused greatly on efficiency for performance/resource usage, stability and dedicated months of testing. Everything can work perfectly fine on supported OS versions up-to-date; one forced Windows Update patch later it all goes downhill, requiring the developers to spend potentially extensive amounts of time debugging the code and identifying where the issue lies (and then patching it which may or may not be tricky depending on the scenario).

You can test any piece of software until your heart contents. However, one forced update is all it takes to potentially cause a problem. It can be out of control scope for the developer (e.g. they did not know about the upcoming update and/or the change-log details internally and how it may affect their software functionality). :oops:

Microsoft forces Updates in the Windows 10 Home Edition cause most users are reckless and lack knowledge in IT to properly manage their computer.
Do you have a link on where you found this out? I'm interested in reading the source if that's okay. :)
 

Local Host

Level 19
Verified
Third-party software breaking after a forced Windows Update doesn't always mean that the developers of that third-party software lazy!

A third-party developer could have written hundreds of thousands of lines of code (or millions depending on the language and how large the project is), focused greatly on efficiency for performance/resource usage, stability and dedicated months of testing. Everything can work perfectly fine on supported OS versions up-to-date; one forced Windows Update patch later it all goes downhill, requiring the developers to spend potentially extensive amounts of time debugging the code and identifying where the issue lies (and then patching it which may or may not be tricky depending on the scenario).

You can test any piece of software until your heart contents. However, one forced update is all it takes to potentially cause a problem. It can be out of control scope for the developer (e.g. they did not know about the upcoming update and/or the change-log details internally and how it may affect their software functionality). :oops:


Do you have a link on where you found this out? I'm interested in reading the source if that's okay. :)
I'm a developer myself, what I meant is the developers can test their Software on W10 Preview Builds to make sure it works and can contact Microsoft if any problem arises down the road.

Microsoft cannot be held responsible for third-party tools incompatibility, there's also documentation and tips for developers that warn about coming changes!

Microsoft promises Windows 10 auto updates are for our own good | TheINQUIRER
 

Andy Ful

Level 49
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Trusted
Content Creator
@danb, @Local Host, @Lockdown, @Opcode
That is strange, but I can agree with all of you. Automatic updates can be a pain in the ..., but on the other side, many home users are much safer. One can say that it is not Microsoft business, but that is not so simple. The new politics made criminals to focus on sociotechnical methods, because the investment in Windows 10 exploits is increasingly expensive.
The Insider Program is a good step for making the developer life easier. Also, when we bear in mind that Microsoft is a big corporation, it is not as bad as some other corporations.
I understand the complaints of many developers, because Microsoft decided to make a system security revolution with Windows 10. It evolves so quickly that is hard for developers to be on time.
It is true, that Enterprises have much trouble with automatical Windows Updates. In many cases, additional costs are required because old professional software stops working, and the new software licenses are expensive. Also, when the update breaks the computers, the company cannot work and lose money.
Edit.
I forgot about substantial costs of buying the new equipment, because the old one does not work after updates.
 
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DeepWeb

Level 25
Verified
I didn't check this. Too late. Had to run AOMEI Backupper for the first time to restore the entire system drive. Just uninstalling the update left it all broken. I highly recommend to avoid, skip, delete this update. If the update fails to install, be thankful. Someone up there likes you.

There are massive conflicts with my network connection and Comodo Firewall. It seems that whatever Microsoft updated changed Windows Firewall configuration because when I uninstalled the update, I got a notification that Windows Firewall was turned off (again).
 

DeepWeb

Level 25
Verified
This also makes me worry about Fall Creators Update two days from now... ugh. I'm not ready to deal with this again...
 
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509322

This also makes me worry about Fall Creators Update two days from now... ugh. I'm not ready to deal with this again...
If you are using Home, then disable Windows Update service for at least a week - so you can get the problem reports from others.

That's the whole point of such reports as this thread, but it got turned into something else by others.
 
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Andy Ful

Level 49
Verified
Trusted
Content Creator
I didn't check this. Too late. Had to run AOMEI Backupper for the first time to restore the entire system drive. Just uninstalling the update left it all broken. I highly recommend to avoid, skip, delete this update. If the update fails to install, be thankful. Someone up there likes you.

There are massive conflicts with my network connection and Comodo Firewall. It seems that whatever Microsoft updated changed Windows Firewall configuration because when I uninstalled the update, I got a notification that Windows Firewall was turned off (again).
I had problems with Comodo Firewall on earlier versions of Windows 10, even without making updates. Finally, I decided to stick with Windows 10 built-in security. No malware, no problems with OS and updates/upgrades.
 

venustus

Level 47
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Content Creator
This also makes me worry about Fall Creators Update two days from now... ugh. I'm not ready to deal with this again...
With the "official release" most of the major developers of third party apps have or are in the process of adding compatibility,however this does not assume you may not have issues!!
 

mlnevese

Level 16
Verified
I had even forgotten the new Edition of Windows 10 is out in two days... so that's why Kaspersky is rushing the Patch D distribution... it's the first time I got a Kaspersky patch less than two days after release...