Serious Discussion Microsoft Defender Antivirus and firewall = 100 % clean?

Vitali Ortzi

Level 23
Verified
Top Poster
Well-known
Dec 12, 2016
1,290
There is no way to check 100% but you can detect most malware with hitman pro + Kaspersky removal tool + Norton power eraser and then scanning and sending a Farber scan log in this fourm

But your system is already likely clean
 

pxxb1

Level 10
Verified
Well-known
Jan 17, 2018
471
I just wanted confirmation from pros / specialists, that my laptop / system is clean.
And the more I learn from all these great replies, the more questions also arise.

To be on the net and use the pc that little, but being so unsecure about getting contaminated means that you have to read up on how difficult it actually is to get malware.
Ms Defender is good enough for normal, and then some, usage, complement it with Comodo firewall with "Cruelsisters" config ( look it up on the net) and Sandboxie for the browser and you will have a fort.

You say nothing about your user habits with the pc, which is essential for the level of protection.
 

Oblivion99

Level 1
Thread author
Nov 6, 2023
55
To be on the net and use the pc that little, but being so unsecure about getting contaminated means that you have to read up on how difficult it actually is to get malware.
Ms Defender is good enough for normal, and then some, usage, complement it with Comodo firewall with "Cruelsisters" config ( look it up on the net) and Sandboxie for the browser and you will have a fort.

You say nothing about your user habits with the pc, which is essential for the level of protection.
I guess I just have trauma from the old WIndows XP days...

In regard of user habits, this is all it was online:

New laptop with Windows 11 pre-installed

The laptop was only online for a couple of minutes during initial setup and when downloading software from Microsoft Store

Only downloaded software from the Microsoft Store

Never visited any websites
 

Oblivion99

Level 1
Thread author
Nov 6, 2023
55
The online scanner is not better than the offline one, using the offline (signatures) is faster than uploading and downloading every single file it scans.
1.
Just to be sure, that we are talking about the same.
When I mean "offline scanner", I mean when MS Defender scans a file, and there is no internet connection.
Are you meaning the same?

2.
"the offline (signatures)"
How can local MS Defender on my laptop, contain signatures / bits of code, for all possible kinds of malware?
This I have never quite understood...
It makes sense to use and compare to an online cloud, since it has unlimited space / data.

No, if the offline says it is "OK", then no need to online scanner, online scanner just in case the offline find unknown file, it will upload it to the cloud to be tested.

3.
In regard of this test:
MS Defender has an online detection rate of 97.5% and offline detection rate of 63.1%.

3.
If the offline scanner clears a file / says the file is clean, and the online scanner don't scan it - then how come the detection rate of the online scanner is way higher / almost 100%?

4.
To me that is a problem, that the offline scanner that is worse / not good - can clear / say a file is clean, and let the file come into the system. Because with a detection rate of 63.1%, it is letting a lot of bad stuff get through. Or am I misunderstanding something?

Thank you again for all your great replies!
 

Oblivion99

Level 1
Thread author
Nov 6, 2023
55
The mentioned scenario will apply to any file crated/opened/copied/pasted/modified/etc. to your laptop/system, it is not about how the file downloaded or where it came from, it is about any file in the system new or old.
Also if the file was transfered via Bluetooth?

Also if the laptop was connected to a compromised Chromecast unit, and the Chromecast unit somehow transfered / tried to transfer a malicous file to the system?
 

Vitali Ortzi

Level 23
Verified
Top Poster
Well-known
Dec 12, 2016
1,290
I guess I just have trauma from the old WIndows XP days...

In regard of user habits, this is all it was online:

New laptop with Windows 11 pre-installed

The laptop was only online for a couple of minutes during initial setup and when downloading software from Microsoft Store

Only downloaded software from the Microsoft Store

Never visited any websites
99.9999999% you don't have malware and from your habits only way to even get malware is via a state sponsored targeted attack and I'm pretty sure they won't waste an exploit chain to attack you
 

Vitali Ortzi

Level 23
Verified
Top Poster
Well-known
Dec 12, 2016
1,290
1.
Just to be sure, that we are talking about the same.
When I mean "offline scanner", I mean when MS Defender scans a file, and there is no internet connection.
Are you meaning the same?

2.
"the offline (signatures)"
How can local MS Defender on my laptop, contain signatures / bits of code, for all possible kinds of malware?
This I have never quite understood...
It makes sense to use and compare to an online cloud, since it has unlimited space / data.



3.
In regard of this test:
MS Defender has an online detection rate of 97.5% and offline detection rate of 63.1%.

3.
If the offline scanner clears a file / says the file is clean, and the online scanner don't scan it - then how come the detection rate of the online scanner is way higher / almost 100%?

4.
To me that is a problem, that the offline scanner that is worse / not good - can clear / say a file is clean, and let the file come into the system. Because with a detection rate of 63.1%, it is letting a lot of bad stuff get through. Or am I misunderstanding something?

Thank you again for all your great replies!
Well the 63.1% is via local signatures and default settings but you can extend it's behavior monitoring with tools on this site add software restriction polices too etc and anyway it's not easy for malware to get to systems nowadays the browsers are sandboxed and hardened and you rarely see sandbox escape (browser is the main way most malware goes through ) so as long as you have good habits and don't execute executables that sites download well you should be Malware free

Btw if you want to protect against other web based attacks you can use a secure DNS like (DNS.eu , nextdns , quad9 )
,enable enhanced safe browsing , install extensions (extensions would increase attack surface and can be exploited but in my opinion specific ones are worth the added risk )
 
Last edited:

lokamoka820

Level 21
Mar 1, 2024
1,060
1.
Just to be sure, that we are talking about the same.
When I mean "offline scanner", I mean when MS Defender scans a file, and there is no internet connection.
Are you meaning the same?
Yes exactly, this is the offline scanner which rely on signatures.
2.
"the offline (signatures)"
How can local MS Defender on my laptop, contain signatures / bits of code, for all possible kinds of malware?
This I have never quite understood...
It makes sense to use and compare to an online cloud, since it has unlimited space / data.
The signatures are file containing hashes of known malware, it is just a kind of text files, and that makes their size very small on your laptop, so space is not a problem here, MS Defender signatures size around 160 MB, this can contain millions of signatures to deal with malware.
3.
In regard of this test:
MS Defender has an online detection rate of 97.5% and offline detection rate of 63.1%.
Yes this is because in tests they use new malware not old one, but in real world you will not face only new malware, if you are a target to the attacker mostly what you will find on the internet or in a USB stick and old malware, and old here not mean old for years, after 3 days of new malware it becomes old and most vendors will catch it.
3.
If the offline scanner clears a file / says the file is clean, and the online scanner don't scan it - then how come the detection rate of the online scanner is way higher / almost 100%?
Again this is about 0-day malware, so the offline scanner here didn't say these samples clear, it can't quarantine them because it doesn't have signatures about them, while the online scanner will test them in an isolated environment and get the result by testing.
4.
To me that is a problem, that the offline scanner that is worse / not good - can clear / say a file is clean, and let the file come into the system. Because with a detection rate of 63.1%, it is letting a lot of bad stuff get through. Or am I misunderstanding something?
Don't think about it as someone better than the other, look at them as each one of them compliment the other, in the end they are a security layers to close impossible gaps in security not to challenge each other, and this is the best to keep the performance lighter on the system and the procedure faster.

If you look at the image below, you will find the components on MS Defender, the "NisSrv.exe" is the online scanner, and the "MsMpEng.exe" is the offline one, see the difference in ram between both of them, this is because the offline is the base, and the online is when 0-day malware appear which is rear for home user.

1SYtmKNJbv.png
 
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