Advice Request SSD vs HDD reliability

[Digerati]

EC-> Embedded Controller.

As always you use Desktops as a base whereas I use Laptops.

Ummm, actually I specifically said "the notebook's own heat" throwing the sensor reading off.

Much of my experience (and I run a computer repair business and have been a tech since the early 1970s) with computers is with mobile devices. And as you NOW say (previously, you said "most"), "some" laptop makers may label a sensor as "ambient". But it is my experience "most" don't. In fact, I don't remember ever seen it. And just checking a Toshiba, 2 Dells, a Lenova and an HP (and several other old notebook motherboards) in the shop now, we don't see any labeled as such. And running HWiNFO isn't showing any labeled Ambient either. Do you happen to have a model number of one that does?

I am not saying there aren't any - just that "most" don't for again, as Local Host noted, it would make no sense to put an "ambient" sensor in close proximity to any heat generating device. There's no way it could be anywhere near accurate and notebooks are just too small to locate any sensor far enough away. Any accurate sensor would have to be located outside the case and several inches (if not feet) away.

In doing some homework, I see what you mean about pollution and emissions standards in India. I knew it was bad, just not that bad. In fact, 13 of the world's 20 most polluted cities are in India. While rules and regulations and emissions standards were developed, it seems it took until 2010 for any to be truly implemented. So while cars made since then are "smart", there are millions and millions still on the road that are not. Plus it seems fuel standards are still lacking - not to mention actual enforcement resources are lacking.

But still, the point remains the same. Solid state electronics technologies have been used in vehicles located in virtually all environments around the world for decades, from hot and humid swamps in Louisiana and the Philippines, to unbearable heat in Saudi Arabia and Arizona, to extreme colds of Alaska and Siberia. And while vehicle computer systems fail, typically cars that make it to old age die due to mechanical failure.

 

[Vasudev]

Ummm, actually I specifically said "the notebook's own heat" throwing the sensor reading off.

Much of my experience (and I run a computer repair business and have been a tech since the early 1970s) with computers is with mobile devices. And as you NOW say (previously, you said "most"), "some" laptop makers may label a sensor as "ambient". But it is my experience "most" don't. In fact, I don't remember ever seen it. And just checking a Toshiba, 2 Dells, a Lenova and an HP (and several other old notebook motherboards) in the shop now, we don't see any labeled as such. And running HWiNFO isn't showing any labeled Ambient either. Do you happen to have a model number of one that does?

I am not saying there aren't any - just that "most" don't for again, as Local Host noted, it would make no sense to put an "ambient" sensor in close proximity to any heat generating device. There's no way it could be anywhere near accurate and notebooks are just too small to locate any sensor far enough away. Any accurate sensor would have to be located outside the case and several inches (if not feet) away.

In doing some homework, I see what you mean about pollution and emissions standards in India. I knew it was bad, just not that bad. In fact, 13 of the world's 20 most polluted cities are in India. While rules and regulations and emissions standards were developed, it seems it took until 2010 for any to be truly implemented. So while cars made since then are "smart", there are millions and millions still on the road that are not. Plus it seems fuel standards are still lacking - not to mention actual enforcement resources are lacking.

But still, the point remains the same. Solid state electronics technologies have been used in vehicles located in virtually all environments around the world for decades, from hot and humid swamps in Louisiana and the Philippines, to unbearable heat in Saudi Arabia and Arizona, to extreme colds of Alaska and Siberia. And while vehicle computer systems fail, typically cars that make it to old age die due to mechanical failure.

Take any new models from 7th gen kabylake and Nvidia optimus based laptops from Dell inspiron 15 5xxx or 7xxx or XPS and make sure EC support is checked off in HWINFO.

 

[Deleted Member 3a5v73x]

My 120GB Kingston HyperX SSD for over 4 years still running smooth like day one, replaced from main laptop to fathers, I stressed it much back then with VMware, so 50TB+/- written on its lifespan is already done I believe, so reliability is still top class. For my main laptop I use 250GB Samsung 850 Evo, love it, no signs of failures or problems. My suggestion is to pick one from reputable vendor and you should be good, make sure to have external backups of your valuable data as well.

I had very bad experience with HDDs, couldn't recover my external 500GB Seagate HDD with hundreds of family photos saved when it fell down on floor, it was sad.

 

[Digerati]

Take any new models from 7th gen kabylake and Nvidia optimus based laptops from Dell inspiron 15 5xxx or 7xxx or XPS and make sure EC support is checked off in HWINFO.

Ummm, what are you suggesting here? This has what to do with SSDs?

And I see no reason to ever turn off an embedded controller - unless there are stability issues. And if disabling it does not resolve the stability issues, enable EC Support again.

 

[Vasudev]

Ummm, what are you suggesting here? This has what to do with SSDs?

And I see no reason to ever turn off an embedded controller - unless there are stability issues. And if disabling it does not resolve the stability issues, enable EC Support again.

Not at all!
EC sensors wrecks havoc on some dell or HP or Toshiba PCs producing audio glitches and stuttering when you query EC sensor.

 

[Digerati]

Not at all!

Yes totally!

Those are rare problems that only happen on a few products. Therefore, it is bad and silly advice to suggest this be disabled on every one of those notebooks without first seeing if there are stability issues. If it ain't broke, don't mess with it!

 

[Vasudev]

Yes totally!

Those are rare problems that only happen on a few products. Therefore, it is bad and silly advice to suggest this be disabled on every one of those notebooks without first seeing if there are stability issues. If it ain't broke, don't mess with it!

Querying EC comes at a cost for some they'll see no issue and for others there are.
Usually querying EC provides in-depth info about your hardware just like proprietary SW from manufacturers does.

 

[JakeXPMan]

No vote from me, but I hear SSD are MUCH more reliable in daily or heavy use... but maybe SSD are easier to break if not treated well ? (moving/adjusting/removing a lot)

I am sorta guessing on that 2nd because of the 22 percent votes being less reliable to HDD, but maybe I read it somewhere that the SSD needs to be treated more careful?

I'm going to read this topic soon to find out where the 22% SSD went wrong for them.

 

[roger_m]

but maybe SSD are easier to break if not treated well ? (moving/adjusting/removing a lot)

No, hard drives are much more prone to damage because they have moving parts.

 

[show-Zi]

Imagine a usb memory stick. There are many cases where a stick that was normally used until yesterday suddenly became unrecognizable and lost data. The ssd's assessment of unreliability probably includes one that expresses this characteristic.
The hdd breaks at the limit of physical strength, but the ssd loses data like a seizure. In other words, it may be said that the reliability is low in the sense that it is difficult to notice the signs.

 

[Cortex]

I've in the not to distant past worked in server rooms in power backup - Some of the hundreds of spinning hard drives in these rooms have been running for many years 24/7 - Most issues they had were on outages (shouldn't happen) or need to cold restart the system, from conversations with the guys running the servers the reason they usually get removed is to fit larger ones - The reliability factor pushed in selling SSD's is usually marketing - In 26 years I have had one spinner fail - I'm very happy with the Samsung SSD M.2 I'm using in this PC but I don't feel they are as reliable as spinners but have many advantages !

 

[JakeXPMan]

No, hard drives are much more prone to damage because they have moving parts.

Ah okay, makes sense... SSD, solid as a rock in other words.

 

[roger_m]

In 26 years I have had one spinner fail - I'm very happy with the Samsung SSD M.2 I'm using in this PC but I don't feel they are as reliable as spinners but have many advantages !

I've had a number of hard drives fail. One of them was just a few months old. I believe that in general that brand name SSDs will last longer than hard drives. One big difference, is that hard drives tend to fail slowly, whereas SSDs may fail suddenly.

 

[shmu26]

but maybe SSD are easier to break if not treated well ?

If you drop a laptop on the floor, two things are likely to break: the screen, and the HDD. If you have a SSD, it won't break when you drop the laptop.

As far as long-term reliablity goes, we must realize that no form of physical storage is reliable enough to guarantee our data. We must backup, or eventually we will face the consequences.

 

[mkoundo]

If you drop a laptop on the floor, two things are likely to break: the screen, and the HDD. If you have a SSD, it won't break when you drop the laptop.

As far as long-term reliablity goes, we must realize that no form of physical storage is reliable enough to guarantee our data. We must backup, or eventually we will face the consequences.

Interesting research project Silica for long term storage:

Project Silica proof of concept stores Warner Bros. ‘Superman’ movie on quartz glass

Microsoft and Warner Brothers collaborate to store and retrieve the 1978 'Superman' movie on a piece of glass roughly the size of a drink coaster.

news.microsoft.com

Not sure you can drop it in your laptop though....

 

[Ink]

Are SSDs more reliable than HDDs? On the face of it this would seem to be a no brainer. Of course something with no moving parts is going to be more reliable. But is that really the case once other factors such as write wear rate, transistor/capacitor failure, etc, etc, are considered?
SSD vs. HDD

Buy it and don't look back.

WD Blue is inexpensive.

 

[Digerati]

I've in the not to distant past worked in server rooms in power backup - Some of the hundreds of spinning hard drives in these rooms have been running for many years 24/7

I think it important to note most "server room" environments are constant - with temperatures and humidity maintained almost with precision accuracy. These rooms often have filtered air and the power supplied to the electronics is "clean" and regulated. The supplies are also mounted in sturdy cabinets that help isolate and suppress vibrations. All electronics, even electromechanical devices, tend to have better longevity in those operating conditions.

Having said that, I've seen hard drives in personal computers and notebooks last for many years too. But I have also seen MANY fail within their 1 to 3 year warranty periods too.

And while it may be my imagination (but I don't think so), it certainly is my opinion that hard drives made today have been made with so many cost-cutting measures that they do fail more often than drives made 10+ years ago.

It is also my opinion that the "no moving parts" aspect of SSDs is a valid point. I just know of a fair way to measure and compare SSDs to HDs today. Not all hard drives in a manufacturers lineup are created equal. Same with SSDs. And is it really fair to judge based on reliability/longevity alone when surely performance, heat, power consumption, even noise, weight and physical size are all factors too? And that's not even mentioning $/Gb.

All I know is this. All of my personal PCs in the last 5 years have been SSD only and none of those SSDs have failed. And all my future PCs will be SSD based too.

 

[mkoundo]

When looking to buy your next SSD it is worth considering the endurance, in addition to the read/write speeds normally quoted to distinguish different brands.

some more info here:

 

[Digerati]

With today's SSDs, I don't worry about endurance. It is important to note that reads have negligible impact on endurance. Typical use involves write once/read many action. And with today's SSDs, which don't suffer anything close to the write limits first generation SSDs did, along with their TRIM and wear leveling features, typical users will retire their computers long before their SSDs reach those write limits. This is why more and more data centers are using SSDs for their higher priority data. It is also why SSDs and Page Files are made for each other (source: Support and Q&A for Solid-State Drives and scroll down to, "Frequently Asked Questions, Should the pagefile be placed on SSDs?" While the article is getting old and was written for Windows 7, it applies to Windows 10 too and even more so today).

 

[Handsome Recluse]

And while it may be my imagination (but I don't think so), it certainly is my opinion that hard drives made today have been made with so many cost-cutting measures that they do fail more often than drives made 10+ years ago.

Has this happened on other parts too? laptops and desktops?