Serious Discussion Will Using a 3rd Party Antivirus Reduce the Data Microsoft Collects About Me?

[lokamoka820]

As Microsoft tries hard to make users use Microsoft Edge as a default browser to collect more data about them, is the same goes on Microsoft Defender or windows will collect the same info whether I use Microsoft Defender or any other antivirus?

 

[Bot]

Microsoft Defender primarily collects data related to security threats, not personal browsing habits. Using a 3rd party antivirus won't significantly reduce the data Microsoft collects about you.

 

[Marko :)]

I could write an essay about this, but I'm getting ready for sleep (past 01:00 here). So just a quick answer...

Yes. Microsoft will get waaaay less data about you if you use 3rd party antivirus software. SmartScreen is the biggest culprit here because it sends Microsoft full URLs of every website you visit. It's also known that Microsoft, at least in the past, tied collected data to Microsoft accounts and Windows accounts, so they had a pretty good idea who visited what. Even though they claimed they never do that.

More info: Windows 10 SmartScreen Sends URLs and App Names to Microsoft

The less Microsoft products you use, the better for you.

 

[HarborFront]

You need to use antispy tool like O&O ShutUp10+ or similar software to minimize the data collection by MS

 

[TuxTalk]

This is M$ no matter what, they will collect.

 

[jackuars]

If you are using Windows, Microsoft will most definitely find different ways to collect data about you, just like any other software would that you use on the platform. It's not unique to Windows, but it's worth being aware of.

But let's be real. Microsoft is not going to find any exciting secrets in my online browsing history or digital footprint. It'll just be a bunch of forgotten bookmarks, abandoned shopping carts, or a lingering presence on social media. So, I say go ahead, collect all the data you want, I'm just over here living my best (and most unremarkable) online life, completely unbothered by digital snooping.

Once paranoia sets in, that's when the actual problem begins.

 

[RoboMan]

If you're worried about your "privacy" or data gathering, you're using the wrong ecosystem. Anything related to Microsft/Apple/Google (e.g. Windows, iOS, Android; and its related services) will mine your personal information and habits as deep as the law allows them (and sometimes, more).

If you're worried about your personal information, consider a linux distro (pref. not Ubuntu).

If you're decided to use Windows, use privacy tools like O&O Shutup10. They minimize data collecting but, of course, don't eliminate it entirely.

Take into account, besides fingerprinting you, the data collected is kinda useless in terms of your privacy. You're not compromising pictures, documents or private information like passwords or bank details. It's mainly statistics, analytics, information on what you do and how you do it. This helps create an indentity for you, and this is generally sold to create better targeted ads. But, again, they're not selling your nudes.

Spoiler

Or... are they?

 

[oldschool]

Once paranoia sets in, that's when the actual problem begins.

Indeed. Privacy is an overblown issue, because data collection overall is so out of our control. Today I received yet another notice of third party data breach. We're mostly helpless with regards to digital privacy.

 

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

When you already use a Microsoft operating system, why introduce a third party (AV) to share your data with?

 

[Marko :)]

You need to use antispy tool like O&O ShutUp10+ or similar software to minimize the data collection by MS

I strongly disagree with this one. People should stop using "telemetry blockers" because all they do is cause problems and slow down your PC–that's a fact!

Telemetry can only be disabled in Enterprise and Education version of Windows, all other Windows editions are required to send telemetry data to Microsoft. And no software or even hardware could help you to stop that. Microsoft owns billions of domains which are used for telemetry; there will always be a domain which you didn't block. And even if you managed to do so, your Windows installation will be unusable.

Every time you block telemetry domain, Windows tries another one until it reaches their server. This is where and why Windows becomes slow and eventually freezes/crashes. That's why my advice for everyone is to stop with this crap and give up because all you will get are the problems—nothing else. Either buy Enterprise (or activate it by using "you know!" methods) or just switch to Linux.

If you are using Windows, Microsoft will most definitely find different ways to collect data about you, just like any other software would that you use on the platform. It's not unique to Windows, but it's worth being aware of.

But let's be real. Microsoft is not going to find any exciting secrets in my online browsing history or digital footprint. It'll just be a bunch of forgotten bookmarks, abandoned shopping carts, or a lingering presence on social media. So, I say go ahead, collect all the data you want, I'm just over here living my best (and most unremarkable) online life, completely unbothered by digital snooping.

Once paranoia sets in, that's when the actual problem begins.

Are you saying privacy isn't important to you?

Then why do you keep your passwords secret? Just send them to us along with e-mail addresses. I mean, what's the difference if Microsoft or I have access to your account? None.

Privacy isn't the only problem with Defender and SmartScreen. SmartScreen collects full URLs of every website you visit. URLs are often known to collect private information and you can even sometimes access user accounts and private files just by having a URL. None of that would be a problem if Microsoft didn't send and store those on their servers in PLAIN TEXT. And if you know anything at all about security, you realize that it's a big NO-NO.

There's no security without privacy. These go hand in hand together.

Indeed. Privacy is an overblown issue, because data collection overall is so out of our control. Today I received yet another notice of third party data breach. We're mostly helpless with regards to digital privacy.

This is what companies are making you think because it's in their interest. "Boo-hoo! Privacy on the web doesn't exist, give up!"
It does exist, you just have to find the path to it. And to achieve that, you need to look from the beginning to the end without any compromise.

Want an example?
1. step – buy your own router to get rid of ISP snooping on you and your devices
2. step – install physical VPN hardware (VPN router)
3. step – install private Linux distro on your PC
4. step – connect to another VPN service on the PC
5. step – use a private web browser with content blocker like uBlock Origin and make it clear all website data on exit

It can be done. It's just there aren't many people that will go through all of this just for privacy. Except criminals.

When you already use a Microsoft operating system, why introduce a third party (AV) to share your data with?

Just because Microsoft collects some data, doesn't mean we should give them absolutely ALL data about us. Also, it's never recommended to stick with just one company for everything.

 

[oldschool]

It can be done. It's just there aren't many people that will go through all of this just for privacy

You neglect the issue of all the personal data that 3rd party providers have, over which users have no control. Sure, you can use Linux, Tor, etc. but that's a drop in the bucket. Cars, modern streaming TVs, smart phones, ISPs, even VPNs, etc. all have and can use & abuse your info, and all of it is liable to hack jobs. So, users have to choose their approach to privacy as they see fit and do-able. In the end, unless one is a hermit, the hamster wheel goes round and round.

 

[Marko :)]

You neglect the issue of all the personal data that 3rd party providers have, over which users have no control. Sure, you can use Linux, Tor, etc. but that's a drop in the bucket. Cars, modern streaming TVs, smart phones, ISPs, even VPNs, etc. all have and can use & abuse your info, and all of it is liable to hack jobs. So, users have to choose their approach to privacy as they see fit and do-able. In the end, unless one is a hermit, the hamster wheel goes round and round.

I agree, but you always have the private option. If you care about privacy, you obviously won't use WeChat, you'll use Signal instead. And you won't use some cheap VPN, you'll use one that was tested and audited by independent researchers and the one that doesn't require any of your personal data. Mullvad is great example; you can literally send them cash with your randomly generated account ID in an envelope.

If there isn't any privacy on the web, then how it is possible for criminals to sell/buy drugs? Or distribute child pornography without any issues? They would all be arrested as soon as their started their illegal activities if privacy doesn't exist.

 

[Jonny Quest]

When you already use a Microsoft operating system, why introduce a third party (AV) to share your data with?

In my case, I'm okay in sharing non personalized data with F-Secure. I may be a bit naive, but F-Secure is one of those companies I trust, and hope that could help on their end somehow

 

[Marko :)]

In my case, I'm okay in sharing non personalized data with F-Secure. I may be a bit naive, but F-Secure is one of those companies I trust, and hope that could help on their end somehow
View attachment 285844

Take a look at their privacy policy to see what they really collect. Your "non personalized data" can greatly differ from their "non personalized data".

 

[Jonny Quest]

Take a look at their privacy policy to see what they really collect. Your "non personalized data" can differ from their "non personalized data" by huge margin.

Thanks, I have, and it seemed pretty "standard", but I'll take a second look just to be sure. I am not using their Total VPN, but Mullvad's for their privacy and security. The one I did have a problem with before all the US ban went down, was Kaspersky Plus on my phone when I received a privacy update notice, and it went on and on and on, and is when I said no thanks, I'll pass (about 8 or 9 months ago?)

edit: @Marko :) A lot of paper and ink...LOL but, I did print their privacy policy to review it in hand. At times I do better that way in reading from a hard copy, than from a PC monitor.

 

[jackuars]

I strongly disagree with this one. People should stop using "telemetry blockers" because all they do is cause problems and slow down your PC–that's a fact!

Telemetry can only be disabled in Enterprise and Education version of Windows, all other Windows editions are required to send telemetry data to Microsoft. And no software or even hardware could help you to stop that. Microsoft owns billions of domains which are used for telemetry; there will always be a domain which you didn't block. And even if you managed to do so, your Windows installation will be unusable.

Every time you block telemetry domain, Windows tries another one until it reaches their server. This is where and why Windows becomes slow and eventually freezes/crashes. That's why my advice for everyone is to stop with this crap and give up because all you will get are the problems—nothing else. Either buy Enterprise (or activate it by using "you know!" methods) or just switch to Linux.

Are you saying privacy isn't important to you?

Then why do you keep your passwords secret? Just send them to us along with e-mail addresses. I mean, what's the difference if Microsoft or I have access to your account? None.

Privacy isn't the only problem with Defender and SmartScreen. SmartScreen collects full URLs of every website you visit. URLs are often known to collect private information and you can even sometimes access user accounts and private files just by having a URL. None of that would be a problem if Microsoft didn't send and store those on their servers in PLAIN TEXT. And if you know anything at all about security, you realize that it's a big NO-NO.

There's no security without privacy. These go hand in hand together.

This is what companies are making you think because it's in their interest. "Boo-hoo! Privacy on the web doesn't exist, give up!"
It does exist, you just have to find the path to it. And to achieve that, you need to look from the beginning to the end without any compromise.

Want an example?
1. step – buy your own router to get rid of ISP snooping on you and your devices
2. step – install physical VPN hardware (VPN router)
3. step – install private Linux distro on your PC
4. step – connect to another VPN service on the PC
5. step – use a private web browser with content blocker like uBlock Origin and make it clear all website data on exit

It can be done. It's just there aren't many people that will go through all of this just for privacy. Except criminals.

Just because Microsoft collects some data, doesn't mean we should give them absolutely ALL data about us. Also, it's never recommended to stick with just one company for everything.

The distinction between privacy and security often gets muddled.
**Privacy** is about keeping your personal and non-personal data—like your search history, location, and preferences—confidential. It's about who has access to your data and how it's used.

**Security** is about protecting your data from unauthorized access and breaches. It involves measures like strong passwords, encryption, and secure networks to keep hackers out.

Google excels at security; they protect your data from external threats very well. But their approach to privacy can be more controversial, as they use your data to enhance services, like improving search results based on your habits. Google remains the top search engine not just because of its talented developers, but also due to the data it collects to improve its services. If everyone in the world were to stop sending anonymous data to a particular software, I can confidently say that it would likely stagnate and fail to improve

It's a trade-off: to benefit from more personalized services, you often have to share some data. Even highly secure and privacy-focused software can get hacked, as nothing is completely foolproof. The ultimate way to ensure privacy is to disconnect entirely from the digital world, though that's impractical for most people.

It's all about finding the balance between convenience, usability, and how much personal data you're willing to share. Sharing our browsing habits and sharing our passwords are two entirely different things. They cannot be spoken in the same breath, as they carry vastly different risks and consequences.

 

[Marko :)]

The distinction between privacy and security often gets muddled.
**Privacy** is about keeping your personal and non-personal data—like your search history, location, and preferences—confidential. It's about who has access to your data and how it's used.

**Security** is about protecting your data from unauthorized access and breaches. It involves measures like strong passwords, encryption, and secure networks to keep hackers out.

I'm not confusing the terms, I know what each of them means.

Let's say a company has hacker attack in which hacker gains full access to their server, their logs and pretty much everything. Hacker will have access to the ALL data they have on users. If company didn't collect that much data about users, or at least let them opt-out of it, hacker wouldn't have many data about users.

This is why I say those two things go hand-in-hand. It really makes a difference if hacker found everything about you on the server or just your first and last name.

Google excels at security; they protect your data from external threats very well. But their approach to privacy can be more controversial, as they use your data to enhance services, like improving search results based on your habits. Google remains the top search engine not just because of its talented developers, but also due to the data it collects to improve its services. If everyone in the world were to stop sending anonymous data to a particular software, I can confidently say that it would likely stagnate and fail to improve

It's a trade-off: to benefit from more personalized services, you often have to share some data. Even highly secure and privacy-focused software can get hacked, as nothing is completely foolproof. The ultimate way to ensure privacy is to disconnect entirely from the digital world, though that's impractical for most people.

It's all about finding the balance between convenience, usability, and how much personal data you're willing to share. Sharing our browsing habits and sharing our passwords are two entirely different things. They cannot be spoken in the same breath, as they carry vastly different risks and consequences.

No system is secure. And Google can invest in their cybersecurity as much as it can, but there's always a chance everything can be compromised. There are a lot of companies who swore in their IT security and have suffered data breaches.

As Gene Spafford, American professor of computer science, once said:

The only truly secure system is one that is powered off, cast in a block of concrete and sealed in a lead-lined room with armed guards - and even then I have my doubts.

 

[monkeylove]

MS should only be collecting data on URLs that have malware, false positives, etc. That's part of security. But if it's collecting everything, then that's privacy intrusion.

 

[Sorrento]

I use DoNotSpy 11 (similar to O&O ShutUp) & it certainly does not slow my systems down It mainly uses Windows own security options.

 

[ifacedown]

If you're worried about your "privacy" or data gathering, you're using the wrong ecosystem. Anything related to Microsft/Apple/Google (e.g. Windows, iOS, Android; and its related services) will mine your personal information and habits as deep as the law allows them (and sometimes, more).

If you're worried about your personal information, consider a linux distro (pref. not Ubuntu).

If you're decided to use Windows, use privacy tools like O&O Shutup10. They minimize data collecting but, of course, don't eliminate it entirely.

Take into account, besides fingerprinting you, the data collected is kinda useless in terms of your privacy. You're not compromising pictures, documents or private information like passwords or bank details. It's mainly statistics, analytics, information on what you do and how you do it. This helps create an indentity for you, and this is generally sold to create better targeted ads. But, again, they're not selling your nudes.

Spoiler

Or... are they?

View attachment 285838

I believe though that when you use the browser's (Edge, Chrome, etc) Passwword Manager feature, they keep the passwords to their servers un-enrypted, and they will eventually play with it, logging in to your accounts and look up "everything". Then they will use your Bank Details (etc.) to buy grocery for them, or to transfer all your properties to them. By 2030, Agenda 2030, you will have NO privacy, and you will own NOTHING.