Question Are third party consumer AVs a dying market?

motox781

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Thanks for all the replies. Please stay on the topic.

@JoyousBudweiser brought up a good comment about "Social Engineering".

I live in India and I can see a huge increase in financial fraud by making fraud phone call, identifying as bank call centre employee and asking for credit card/ debit card information, taking advantage of uninformed people, all these requires no programming capabilities and promises easy money. "Social engineering" is the buzz word nowadays. So all in all the focus has shifted i would say.

I guess he/she means (in general) phishing threats are much higher today than in the past, with the expansion of social media and cell phones in everyone's pocket. If that's case, then the core premise of an Antivirus does very little (unless that link contains malware, which going back to my original post...I make the case that infection rates have plummeted), considering how difficult it is to protect against ever changing phishing/scam threats (vendors seem to be struggling with phishing/infected link detection, at least on my devices ;)).

- Spam
- Hacked accounts
- Phishing calls/scams
- Phishing/infected links via texts/social media

So, should we focus on phishing/suspicious link protection more than malware detection rate, if the attack vector is shifting? If so, is static malware/firewall testing not as relevant today as it once was? And if that is true, why do we still place so much importance on it and less on phishing/suspicious link detection?
 
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MuzzMelbourne

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Mar 13, 2022
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Then why do you blindly trust( the one you can't verify even) the vpn provider with all your data? build your own vpn ( its not that complicated) if you don't trust anyone!

Do you happen to have the tools for me to do this for iOS on an iPad?

I don’t “blindly trust” Proton! I spent ages researching the subject and decided that Proton AG had the security credentials and business objectives that suited me. Also, there are quite a few reviews on the subject.

I do take you’re point though and guess you do have to trust someone in this game…
 

blackice

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MuzzMelbourne

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show-Zi

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The sector does seem to be tightening, with Norton gobbling up the competition. Vendors are being bought out, because consumers don't find value there were it once was.

But the main point I was trying to drive home is (outside of features), are we pushing people incorrectly...when we say: F-secure is awsome, Kaspersky is the best, Norton is trash, etc. Does it really matter? Do we really need to nick pick over 99% to 100% detection rates?
I believe there is competing software for the extravagant hobby of enjoying choices.
It can be said that security software is a field for enthusiasts. The topic of performance comparison is the same as the conversation between car and motorcycle enthusiasts.🚗🚕🚜

Third-party AV vendors may eventually find the enterprise sector to be more profitable.
I agree. Perhaps in the future, software developed for enterprises will be simplified and provided to home users.
 

bellgamin

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M$ Defender -- an AV developed to protect Windows OS, by the same outfit that developed Windows OS with integral security weaknesses & forced obsolescence. Hmmm.......................

I use AVG for 4 reasons: 1- it does the job, 2- it's feather light, 3- I like its colorful logo, & 4- it's not M$ Defender.
 

Shadowra

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Hello :)

Interesting debate.
For me it depends on the use.
Even if Windows Defender has evolved well, it will not be enough on its own for novices who download everything and anything, P2P etc.

I think the most important rule would be to do prevention.
 

ScandinavianFish

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Dec 12, 2021
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M$ Defender -- an AV developed to protect Windows OS, by the same outfit that developed Windows OS with integral security weaknesses & forced obsolescence. Hmmm.......................

I use AVG for 4 reasons: 1- it does the job, 2- it's feather light, 3- I like its colorful logo, & 4- it's not M$ Defender.
In what ways is it obselete?
 

blackice

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Hello :)

Interesting debate.
For me it depends on the use.
Even if Windows Defender has evolved well, it will not be enough on its own for novices who download everything and anything, P2P etc.

I think the most important rule would be to do prevention.
I don’t think any AV is going to save people who download everything and anything.
 

bellgamin

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In what ways is it obselete?
In several ways. I shall name just 3 ways of forced obsolescence. To wit: 1- Automatically installing Windows 10 over a previous version without notifying the user, 2- Ceasing to support older versions (I can still get parts for a '57 Chevvy of Ford, but not for Win7), 3- Spreading FUD that people who do not upgrade to the very latest Windows version will SURELY get hacked/infected (there are still several who vehemently spread such FUD at my "other" favorite security forum).
 

ScandinavianFish

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In several ways. I shall name just 3 ways of forced obsolescence. To wit: 1- Automatically installing Windows 10 over a previous version without notifying the user, 2- Ceasing to support older versions (I can still get parts for a '57 Chevvy of Ford, but not for Win7), 3- Spreading FUD that people who do not upgrade to the very latest Windows version will SURELY get hacked/infected (there are still several who vehemently spread such FUD at my "other" favorite security forum).
Those are choices of Microsoft, they are an private company that hold differenr opinions than you. Yes not everything they do benefits the users, however the points you raise dont reflect reality, its more difficult and expensive than you realize to maintaining multiplie operating systems, even for an company worth hundreds of billion.

System vulnerabilities are amomg the most common ways businesses get their networks compromised, just look at how much Exchange and Microsoft Servers are targeted due to how the amount of people that dont patch their systems
 

bellgamin

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Those are choices of Microsoft, they are an private company that hold differenr opinions than you. Yes not everything they do benefits the users, however the points you raise dont reflect reality, its more difficult and expensive than you realize to maintaining multiplie operating systems, even for an company worth hundreds of billion.

System vulnerabilities are amomg the most common ways businesses get their networks compromised, just look at how much Exchange and Microsoft Servers are targeted due to how the amount of people that dont patch their systems
I agree with your comments. I recognize that M$ must play the competitive "chess game". And I hope they continue to play it well. However, that does not oblige me (or anyone else) to be part of their game plan. After all, they are not the only game in town.
 
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show-Zi

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I don’t think any AV is going to save people who download everything and anything.
I believe that the basis of online security is not the technology of the software used, but the awareness of the users.
The riverside of the web is a very nice place, but you should understand that the river is inhabited by crocodiles and piranhas.🐊🐡🐡🐡🐊🐊🐊

However, there is also one aspect that the AV industry is supported by 'people who download everything'. It's ironic.
 

struppigel

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Apr 9, 2020
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Mergers from Norton, Windows Defender advancing, Windows 11 implementing a host of security features.... what is the future of consumer third party AVs?

For consumers, ...the AV industry has been suffering for years due to a host of reasons (from my bird's eye view). Windows Defender advancing and coming pre-installed as default is a big one. Usage patterns changing to mobile and tablets (safer forms of computing with tight app ecosystems. Pushing people to Appstore's that are heavily vetted). 2FA and Password managers (and requirements) ...securing accounts more safely.

Back in the early days of XP and Windows 7, there was good money to be made cleaning infected consumer PCs. I'd say the main reasons why would be:
Most AVs are made with the focus of infection prevention not for cleaning systems (the idea is that infection prevention is better than repairing the damage aftwards). I would definitely not put malware cleaners and antivirus software under one umbrella in the discussion because those have a different goal and focus.

The change to mobile and tablet does not mean it is now more secure. We just have more systems that AV needs to support and at least for Android there is plenty of threats and there are AVs that support it. Apple products have never been the primary market for AV software anyways, no matter if that is iOS or MacOS.

-----

But to get back to your original question. Yes, Windows Defender being the default on systems undoubtedly had an impact on the third party AVs. The market is far from dying though.
Firstly because the B2B market indirectly supports the B2C market. If you have your product already working in the business why not also sell a version of the same technology to consumers.

Secondly mass-targeting malware still exists plentiful and I do not see it going down any time soon. These do not care what systems they infect. They are spammed to all kinds of email addresses no matter what. Or use rogue software downloads in conjunction with search engine poisoning or any other method that works in mass targeting. Worms and viruses also do not care if they infect a business computer or something else.

Thirdly malware authors do not evade all of the existing antivirus products, they concentrate on the most wide-spread, because they weigh effort vs results. That means a default installed product like Windows Defender has a big disadvantage in that regard whereas products with less coverage have an advantage. A diverse landscape of security products and competing antivirus products are better for security on a global scale.

And the last point is: There will always be people with specific needs that the de facto product cannot fulfill but can be catered to by third party products. That can range from different functionality, to settings/tweaking possibility, the ability to be used, e.g., by blind people, the impact on the system, and also privacy concerns (different countries have different laws regarding privacy protection, some people make their decision dependent on where the AV company has their servers and customer data).
 

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