Edward Snowden reveals that his life is in danger

[cptredsox]

Since it is apparent that this vehicle "debate" is hung upon it's frame, wheels spinning but gaining no traction, i will end this here.

You are entitled to your perspective the same as me, and i respect that. I also respect that we could have this debate without it turning nasty, "as a good debate" i enjoy.

It is with this, i will say thank you for providing, without becoming defensive, it was enjoyed!
Have a good day.

thank you too .. it was a pleasure

 

[aztony]

In all these debates i have had with people over this, one question i still get no response to is, can anyone out there show me solid proof that the NSA has gathered intel on them, from their phones to their emails, has anyone physically "SEEN" this proof of invasion of privacy, or do they just take it upon word it is happening, relying upon hearsay.

That is completely asinine. There is a reason why those actions/initiatives are called 'covert actions'. That being, these things/exploits are carried out without the target's/victim's knowledge. So the targets/victims would only know of it if they had the requisite training/skills/knowledge to identify the exploits, and or, if someone from the inside revealed it. That's precisely what Snowden did. And with his revelation other Privacy Rights groups have gone at it to see how extensive this spying really went. Now you can refute their finding all you want, that's your prerogative. But asking everyday people to provide personal proof of exploits is not only disingenuous, it is ridiculous.

 

[aztony]

"These people, and they are government officials, have said they would love to put a bullet in my head or poison me when I come out of the supermarket and then watch me die in the shower."

You should probably also worry about a drone strike, though it would, I think, be on the low end of the probability scale.

 

[illumination]

That is completely asinine. There is a reason why those actions/initiatives are called 'covert actions'. That being, these things/exploits are carried out without the target's/victim's knowledge. So the targets/victims would only know of it if they had the requisite training/skills/knowledge to identify the exploits, and or, if someone from the inside revealed it. That's precisely what Snowden did. And with his revelation other Privacy Rights groups have gone at it to see how extensive this spying really is. Now you can refute their finding all you want, that's your prerogative. But asking everyday people to provide personal proof of exploits is not only disingenuous, it is ridiculous.

exactly my point, but yet every day people claim they know exactly what is going on, they will even challenge you over it.. Such as now, have you seen these reports from Snowden? I didnt think so.. Now you can refute this all you want, but this is another two sided coin, where as evidence, from either way is not present, just people assuming...

 

[aztony]

exactly my point, but yet every day people claim they know exactly what is going on, they will even challenge you over it.. Such as now, have you seen these reports from Snowden? I didnt think so.. Now you can refute this all you want, but this is another two sided coin, where as evidence, from either way is not present, just people assuming...

I have not personally seen any documents Snowden brought of the NSA. What I have seen is published reports of what was allegedly turned over to various media outlets, and published for public consumption. And like any news article I read, regardless of topic, I trust that the company behind the news has properly vetted said report(s) for accuracy concerning content and source, unless there is a compelling reason to distrust it, and or, someone else comes along with evidence to discredit it. You can choose to believe what you want to believe, however errant it may prove to be. But your opinion alone is not sufficient to discredit anything that's been published. Nor is your opinion bolstered in the wake of NSA's subsequent actions at damage control.

 

[illumination]

I have not personally seen any documents Snowden brought of the NSA. What I have seen is published reports of what was allegedly turned over to various media outlets, and published for public consumption. And like any news article I read, regardless of topic, I trust that the story has been properly vetted for accuracy concerning content and source, unless there is a compelling reason to distrust it, or someone else comes along to discredit it. You can choose to believe what you want to believe, however errant it may prove to be. But your opinion alone is not sufficient to discredit anything that's been published. Nor is your opinion bolstered in the wake of NSA's subsequent actions at damage control.

if it was written on the internet, or in the media, it is gospel?

No thanks, i prefer my mind open, i prefer to look for answers instead of claiming i have those.

 

[aztony]

if it was written on the internet, or in the media, it is gospel?

No thanks, i prefer my mind open, i prefer to look for answers instead of claiming i have those.

Sounds very much like a closed mind punctuated by blind faith in government. All still your prerogative. So it's all good.

 

[illumination]

Sounds very much like a closed mind punctuated by blind faith in government. All still your prerogative. So it's all good.

Close minded would be, reading something, and believing it without further questioning, which sounds very much like what you are implying you did.

There is a reason why those actions/initiatives are called 'covert actions'. That being, these things/exploits are carried out without the target's/victim's knowledge.

I believe you wrote these.. "i sense a little contradiction, but maybe it is just me"

I have not personally seen any documents Snowden brought of the NSA. What I have seen is published reports of what was allegedly turned over to various media outlets, and published for public consumption.

The key word underlined.. Now, continuing what was a debate, that has turned into "obviously" a strong will to win, instead of a chance to broaden perspective, to maybe learn something, has become, a bore a best..

 

[aztony]

Close minded would be, reading something, and believing it without further questioning, which sounds very much like what you are implying you did.



I believe you wrote these.. "i sense a little contradiction, but maybe it is just me"



The key word underlined.. Now, continuing what was a debate, that has turned into "obviously" a strong will to win, instead of a chance to broaden perspective, to maybe learn something, has become, a bore a best..

Now you are being obtuse. There is no will to win, at least on my part. You offer an opinion and I counter with my own point of view.

There is a reason why those actions/initiatives are called 'covert actions'. That being, these things/exploits are carried out without the target's/victim's knowledge.

So it was already ignorant of you to even ask people for proof of possible exploit(s) in order to bolster your willful untenable position. If other nation government(s) with all the resources at their disposal could be breached without their knowledge, how would Jake and Jane living on Main Street know?

I have not personally seen any documents Snowden brought of the NSA. What I have seen is published reports of what was allegedly turned over to various media outlets, and published for public consumption.

I already explained this, but I'll do it again. Maybe the 2nd time will be a charm.

And like any news article I read, regardless of topic, I trust that the company behind the news has properly vetted said report(s) for accuracy concerning content and source, unless there is a compelling reason to distrust it, and or, someone else comes along with evidence to discredit it.

You bring me evidence that the documents leaked to the Press and published are anything but genuine and should be discredited, and we'll continue this conversation. Barring that the subject for me is close in this thread.

 

[illumination]

You bring me evidence that the documents leaked to the Press and published are anything but genuine and should to be discredited, and we'll continue this conversation. Barring that the subject for me is close in this thread.

Bring me evidence these published results are legit, and i will continue as well.. This road goes both ways, not one.

Speaking of insensitive, or slow, i do believe you could wear this crown as well.. I do believe you jumped in with the insult of being asinine,with your one sided opinion, completely over looking the reason i stated what i did.

Now sir, i am finished playing this intellectual game of cat and mouse.. Have a good day.

 

[Gnosis]

As Americans under the Constitution of the United States of America, certain aspects trouble us due to adjustments that the NSA and our government has made to counter homicide bombing demons and their supporters, which number in the millions, imho.
That said, illegal aliens and those outside these borders have no say unless their leaders want to got toe-to-toe RIGHT NOW.
This is a fallen world, and all humans, and esp. ALL governments, have many flaws. But save the double standards and hypocrisy for (an) ignorant fool(s) that hate America at any given opportunity because it feels good or it furthers their ulterior motive driven agenda.
These types don't fool me, and help me to realize why wars happen. I see them for the demonic serpents that they are.
It is a dog-eat-dog world. That is reality. Read your World War History, and pre-World War history, as I have, and you shall see the light.
Personally, I think it is time the gloves come off and we ALL just get it on. Posturing, political correctness, and whining gets that old really quick.
Sure, I crack on the NSA and my gov't a bit too, but that is because this is my home, and I am a legit citizen, not because I want to homicide bomb the world into submission as to gain more members for my pseudo-religious/judicial/societal cult. Wise men will understand this all to well.

 

[Gnosis]

Furthermore, I am all for drones if they are utilized to deal with the illegitimate enemy within, AND without. You would want the same for your backyard when encroaching scum wants to destroy your way of life. Just ask those in the Balkans.

 

[Gnosis]

He will get his book deal and movie, and then it will blow over.

 

[Gnosis]

Snowden's mistake was going to Russia for refuge. If he does not dot every "i" and cross every "T" there, the Russian Mafia will make him wish that he stayed home. It is not a game over there.