bribon77

Level 32
Verified
Let's see, I don't think anyone is against any country. There is talk about what happened with CCleaner and nobody is against the Czech Republic. I think that there are intelligent people in MT to get into those things.
 
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ForgottenSeer 85911

How is "inappropriate"? Do you seriously believe we are alone in here and that no one from outside ever crosses these posts? Or that new users never join that have never participated in these discussions?
the issue is over 2 years old and the typical person does not even know it happened let alone come to a place like this
Kaspersky is not going out of business despite "bad publicity"

sorry but i live in a former Soviet oppressed satellite nation
so you're not going to convince me what Russia is really like nor their intentions
if if could Russia would seize all the former iron curtain nations

I don't feel there is anti-US feeling on here, or Russian for that matter. When a major AV vendor has potentially been involved to some degree untoward politics it's interesting - None of the above will change my feelings that Kaspesky is among the best AV there is - However, it's still of interest especially when more information comes to light. If someone doesn't want to discuss issues to do with AV, maybe your in the wrong forum?
the point is that politics are involved and anything that broaches politics is inappropriate
it is silly to think that any govt will not use a domestic av for international intrigue
you don't put your enemy's software on your critical systems

that said, there are pro-Huwei\pro-China and pro-Russia\pro-Kaspersky that keep these kinds of threads alive
because there is vitriolic politics motivating these discussions they should be banned

none of us have all the facts as only the intelligence services do
all govts have intrigues against other govts even friends
all media are pawns of govt and they all lie
a child knows you cannot trust until you have all the facts

Let's see, I don't think anyone is against any country. There is talk about what happened with CCleaner and nobody is against the Czech Republic. I think that there are intelligent people in MT to get into those things.
that is because the US govt is not involved in CCleaner
however it is in Kaspersky and Huwei
there has been heated biased posting about Kaspersky and Huwei for years here merely because the US govt is involved
 
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ForgottenSeer 823865

Let's see, I don't think anyone is against any country. There is talk about what happened with CCleaner and nobody is against the Czech Republic. I think that there are intelligent people in MT to get into those things.
there is several factors why this affair became such a huge drama:

1- A security solution that blatantly upload private files, the docs shouldn't have been uploaded in the first place.
2- A leading security vendor.
3- A Russian vendor where the CEO is graduated from The Technical Faculty of the KGB Higher School...and served in the Soviet military intelligence service
4- A Russian solution uploading secret US files, during a sensitive political context from the involvement of Russia in the US election.

If it wasn't for 3 and 4, nobody would care.
 

Cortex

Level 20
Verified
Most (all) of the major decisions we make is life are done without all the information we would like, as I have four children a child trusts on instinct & often limited information as we do too, so does my Cat - Most people realise about the media, that's what makes life so interesting :):)
 

Tiny

Level 3
It doesn't really matter who is the victim.
The file shouldn't be automatically uploaded (if it is) without the consent but asking consent in a case by case basis, like after a scan. This is simple logic.
If they cared to do this, Kaspersky won't be in such a bad situation. Instead of whatever Eula or warnings, most people don't even read.
Yeah, I would think so. I am a long time Comodo user and despite all it's bugs, it does specifically ask before uploading files. Not sure why Kaspersky does this forced upload thing.
 
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ForgottenSeer 823865

I agree on this, but Kaspersky acts like this for everyone in.
sadly, it is unneeded for a security solution and serve more as an "acceptable" ("and i push it down your throat") data mining feature.
Just read the notice and you are wondering why so many kind of datas are included...Again the user is leeched.

And some found it ok, "they warned us" they say... :sneaky:
"hey, i warn you, by using our security guard services, we will post an employee in your house full time and he will collect everything we found suspicious, based on our criterias (not yours) without any interference from you, because we warned you right? so it is Ok !!!! Great"...

come...on...
 
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artek

Level 5
I still feel like almost every single other vendor is doing the exact same thing. From what I understand, the non-executable files were compressed with the actual malware inside of a 7zip document, which was subsequently uploaded because the data sharing option was turned on. That's not a whole lot worse to me than what Avast was caught doing, or if you go through almost any other vendors privacy policy you'll see some very invasive wording. And again, with most other vendors I've seen, if you allow the anti-malware system to upload samples it doesn't ask. When you couple this with statements like this:

"Treasury Department officials devised plans that would hit entire sectors of Russia’s economy. One preliminary suggestion called for targeting technology companies including Kaspersky Lab, the Moscow-based cybersecurity firm. But skeptics worried that the harm could spill into Europe and pointed out that U.S. companies used Kaspersky systems and software." (source)

It seems likely to me that this was retaliation for Russia's 2016 election interference.
 
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ForgottenSeer 85911

Most (all) of the major decisions we make is life are done without all the information we would like, as I have four children a child trusts on instinct & often limited information as we do too, so does my Cat - Most people realise about the media, that's what makes life so interesting :):)
the matters surrounding Kaspersky and its relationship with the Russian or US govt is not a major life decision
you don't use your enemy's soft on your critical system

that is why these discussions belong on Facebook and Twitter and not here
 
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ForgottenSeer 85911

It seems likely to me that this was retaliation for Russia's 2016 election interference.
that is an inflmmatory statment worthy of Facebook or Twitter

this place social media ?
 
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ForgottenSeer 85911

@georgann94

On this forum, there is an administrator. I think it is up to him and not you to decide whether the discussion can continue or whether it is appropriate to stop it.
if you do not like my opinion you have the right to ignore it
otherwise please do not address me
thank you
 

Lenny_Fox

Level 11
the point is that politics are involved and anything that broaches politics is inappropriate
it is silly to think that any govt will not use a domestic av for international intrigue
you don't put your enemy's software on your critical systems
I agree with you, but personally have learned something reading this thread. talking about a more than two year old controversy does not change anything on the outcome, so it has a high level of "you can stare a cow in its ass, but that won't change anything on the outcome" (as we say in Dutch)". When forum rules allow this topic to be discussed than every member has a choice to participate or ignore this topic.
 
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Raiden

Level 17
Verified
Content Creator
that is an inflmmatory statment worthy of Facebook or Twitter

this place social media ?

Being neutral here, I don't think you can have a discussion like this without some form of political talk. There is definitely a technical aspect to this as well as a political aspect. I am not taking sides, but IMHO as long as the discussion stays friendly and respectful, I don't see any issues. Since this is a security forum and this involves a major security vendor, this topic will be discussed both technically and politically. As I've already said, as long as it stays friendly and respectful that's all that matters.
 
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ForgottenSeer 85911

Being neutral here, I don't think you can have a discussion like this without some form of political talk. There is definitely a technical aspect to this as well as a political aspect. I am not taking sides, but IMHO as long as the discussion stays friendly and respectful, I don't see any issues. Since this is a security forum and this involves a major security vendor, this topic will be discussed both technically and politically. As I've already said, as long as it stays friendly and respectful that's all that matters.
politics are inappropriate because that is all some people need to justify bashing
as i say much earlier, none of us have the real facts because only intelligence agencies have them everything in media is dramas

already people make many offensive posts in this thread - all politically motivated
there is more than one Kaspersky fanboy
there is more than one anti-US

there is no value in keeping discussion of irrelevant and inappropriate material
 

Raiden

Level 17
Verified
Content Creator
politics are inappropriate because that is all some people need to justify bashing
as i say much earlier, none of us have the real facts because only intelligence agencies have them everything in media is dramas

already people make many offensive posts in this thread - all politically motivated
there is more than one Kaspersky fanboy
there is more than one anti-US

there is no value in keeping discussion of irrelevant and inappropriate material
I hear what you are saying, but in all honesty I just had a quick re-read of this entire thread and I don't see anything offensive, or anyone bashing others politically. The only thing remotely close is some back and forth on the technical side of things, but nothing offensive. In all fairness you are the only one that seems to be worked up on this and you are the only one here that seems to be offended.

I am not trying to be mean, I mean this in the friendliness of ways, but you are the only one having an issue with this, no one else here is. This whole thread has been very friendly and respectful, so I don't see any reason it needs to change. People are free to discuss the politics of this, as long as it's done in a friendly/respectful manner. Which it has up to this point, so I don't see any issues. Like I said in my previous post, there is a technical side to this, but also a big political aspect to it as well. I'm not here to take sides, or tell others to take sides, but you cannot discuss this topic without some political discussion. You are right that we really don't know all the details for sure, but that doesn't mean we cannot discuss it.

At the end of the day, it's your opinion, but really it's up to the administrators/moderators on whether they deem this an issue. The fact that it's still open and they are allowing people to post means that they don't have an issue with it, as it has been a very friendly discussion.

Again I am not trying to come across as rude, or unfriendly, but if you have an issue with it, then simply ignore this thread, but I wouldn't be going around telling people what they should and should not discuss, especially when there hasn't been any major issues thus far.
 

Mercenary

Level 1
I have been following this topic for a long time, I have read many articles. Although I am from Ukraine and I work in security. I try to maintain neutrality in this topic and to reason only soberly and only with facts. Most of all, one thing is not clear to me - the fact that Israeli hackers broke into the Kaspersky network and stayed there for a long time is a fact that even Evgeny Kaspersky confirms. And these same hackers said that during the hack and subsequent surveillance, they watched as Kaspersky Anti-Virus searched for secret files by keywords and they have evidence that they can provide.
And now the question is - if America wanted to annihilate once and for all with Kaspersky, then they would have to get evidence from their allies from Israel and provide it to the public. This could destroy Kaspersky’s reputation forever. But no evidence, other than the words of Israeli hackers, was provided.
It seems to me that there is no evidence and I agree with @Umbra that this is a chain of circumstances and the US desire to avenge the disclosure of their secrets.
I’m sure that Kaspersky has his skeletons in the closet that we don’t know about, or maybe never will.
 
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ForgottenSeer 823865

In this affair, you have facts, i mentioned in several posts above with links, those can't be denied, especially when they come from Kaspersky itself.

Then you have theories, most based on an individual (biased?) interpretation of the same facts I mentioned, which doesn't help Kaspersky.
I admit than the political aspect is over-exaggerated.

You have to know that in our geopolitical world, there is no major corporations truly independent from their respective government, and if you have a product/service that is used worldwide even by your traditional adversaries, you will obviously make use of it. Would be foolish to not doing so.
 
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ForgottenSeer 823865

One aspect of the affair intriguing me is the "openness" of those Israeli hackers voluntarily disclosing their dirty deeds, if you have some knowledge of intelligence officine, you know this is not an usual behavior...
You usually avoid to expose yourself, you do your job, and remove traces of your presence, not showing off you breached a company network...

One point to note, is that Israel is quite upset towards Kaspersky exposing their Stuxnet malware and openly accusing them of the attack...
And in this affair, Israel are the ones who "discovered" that Russian spies were using kaspersky network and turned it into a spying tool.
And obviously, Eugene's past didn't help in this aspect...

US conspiracy? no so sure. Israeli one? more probable, Israeli politics are quite shady and preventing them to impact their enemies (Iran in this case) is a good reason to be target of some form of retaliation.

And as always, when intelligence services and government are involved, seeing the truth is as complicated as finding the Saint Graal...

One thing is sure, Cloud automatic uploads should be revisited LOL
 
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