Advice Request Is antivirus software necessary in 2020?

[brigantes]

google "my bitcoin disappeared from my wallet". now read the forums. there are literally thousands.

You are quoting IT security news click-bait. The people on forums could have configured their wallets incorrectly or incorrectly exposed the address.

What you are referring to is not any evidence of what I asked. Please provide 5 reports from credible sources where a hack or malware on a consumer's local system is explicitly attributed to their finances being wiped out... as in their checking and savings accounts, 401K accounts and so on. If it is as you say it is, then you should have no trouble producing such reports.

Any quoted reports need to be from credible sources with rigorous journalistic fact checking. Forum and aggregator reports do not count as credible sources as there is no way to establish the veracity of what the parties are saying.

your quote actually undermines your position. if someone drives a 200 dollar rust bucket, then they don't have to lock their door when they park it. such a person will consider auto insurance a scam. heck, they can leave their bloody keys in the ignition and no one will steal it. now if you drive a Ferrari, your car would be gone in 10 minutes. people with skin in the game will have insurance. so if all you do online is watch youtube, you have nothing to steal and will have trouble understanding this conversation.

My claim about security software is accurate. A person that is penniless does have valuable personal data that can be stolen and used illicit financial gain that shall become the burden of the individual whose identity was stolen. Just because a person watches only Youtube does not mean that they're invulnerable to financial losses, either directly or indirectly.

 

[plat]

Since the browser is the primary gateway for malware and other security threats, that's my current focus. My antivirus may be the core, but for me, not the end-all be-all. At times, I've clicked on seemingly innocuous links and buttons that I thought were trustworthy (from my power company, just recently eg) and a tiny uBlock filter would steer me clear of yet another data mining/phishing/privacy invading page.

There's this unspoken thought that "hey, I've never gotten infected; therefore, I will not be infected in the future." You can make a mistake. That's what effective security programs are for: to have your back. Yes: security programs are necessary.

The user is the weak link, it's been said before.

 

[brigantes]

I think that the general picture of home user malware infections can be very different as compared to enterprises. Most articles and news about malware attacks are related to enterprises and the enterprise environment is totally different from the environment of home users. Also, the attack surface is much bigger in enterprises due to not patched systems & software, local network vulnerabilities, server vulnerabilities, device vulnerabilities, etc. Many attacks on enterprises are targetted and based on lateral movement.
Most malwares that were used in the attacks on enterprises can be reused in the widespread attacks. So, sophisticated malware is not related only to enterprises. But, it is probable that most of the new methods can happen first in the attacks on enterprises.

90+ % of the most serious attacks resulting in financial losses is due to hacks and attacks on 3rd party enterprise systems that store valuable personal data. If one has the funds, there are really expensive statistical reports that clearly show the reality of attacks on systems and the cumulative results.

IT security news needs ad revenue to make money. Ad revenue is dependent upon the number of clicks. Nothing generates more clicks than sensationalism, dis-information, fake news, extremism, embellishing the facts, and outright lies. The IT security news has a vested interest in blowing everything out of proportion and fear mongering.

Meanwhile the numbers do not substantiate most anything that gets hyped out there in the IT security news.

 

[LDogg]

Yes, and so are backup solutions.

~LDogg

 

[Vitali Ortzi]

I only see a few use cases were you don't need any AV.
Those that come in my mind:

1. Computer is never connected to the Internet and usually doesn't share any files with any other system
2. Computer has an OS that is not well supported by AV programs (I don't mean outdated OS like Win XP, in that case you have entirely different problems)
3. Computer is used to run and analyse malware (in that case it should preferably not be connected to the internet as well)

I do wonder about people saying they are smart enough to never get infected. How do you know that you never get infected if you don't have an AV to tell you about the infection? Infections are not always noticable. You might go on for years with an infection on a system. If an AV is installed, it will eventually find it, even if it slipped through initially.

I think most people overestimate themselves.

Usually most people who start not using an AV is because they have or had a very low end computer that an AV made sluggish and might even caused programs to crash from IO or ram limitations .
I have one very old laptop myself Wich currently runs advanced IPS firewall and an auto sandbox osoftware since it doesn't use much ram and so much less IO then "the recommended low resource AVs "
But I'm looking for a good AV to replace the auto sandbox software I use instead because I'm tired of analyzing the false positives it has.
And don't dare to recommend ESET already tested it and it's a hog on my low end system.

 

[show-Zi]

I think that the general picture of home user malware infections can be very different as compared to enterprises. Most articles and news about malware attacks are related to enterprises and the enterprise environment is totally different from the environment of home users. Also, the attack surface is much bigger in enterprises due to not patched systems & software, local network vulnerabilities, server vulnerabilities, device vulnerabilities, etc. Many attacks on enterprises are targetted and based on lateral movement.
Most malwares that were used in the attacks on enterprises can be reused in the widespread attacks. So, sophisticated malware is not related only to enterprises. But, it is probable that most of the new methods can happen first in the attacks on enterprises.

+1
I think talking about enterprise security and home use security in parallel can be confusing.
Suppose the armed forces of a neighboring country possess state-of-the-art weapons. There is no doubt that it is a threat to those around you. For citizens, however, threats to knife-wielding neighbors are more realistic and must be dealt with first.

 

[brigantes]

If you have valuable data of any kind, then all you need is a flash USB to back it up and then disconnect the drive.

Usually most people who start not using an AV is because they have or had a very low end computer that an AV made sluggish and might even caused programs to crash from IO or ram limitations .
I have one very old laptop myself Wich currently runs advanced IPS firewall and an auto sandbox osoftware since it doesn't use much ram and so much less IO then "the recommended low resource AVs "
But I'm looking for a good AV to replace the auto sandbox software I use instead because I'm tired of analyzing the false positives it has.
And don't dare to recommend ESET already tested it and it's a hog on my low end system.

OEMs typically rate the lifespan of their laptops between 2 and 4 years, with 3 years being the average.

Here is an example - Hewlett Packard's official statement on the matter of laptop life span:

"Generally speaking, your typical mid-range laptop should last roughly three years. And if you take good care of your computer, it may even last a bit longer than that."

https://store.hp.com/us/en/tech-takes/longest-lasting-hp-laptop#

!

Once you are using a laptop that is beyond 5 years old it is already ancient by IT standards and is obsolete.

 

[Vitali Ortzi]

If you have valuable data of any kind, then all you need is a flash USB to back it up and then disconnect the drive.


OEMs typically rate the lifespan of their laptops between 2 and 4 years, with 3 years being the average.

Here is an example - Hewlett Packard's official statement on the matter of laptop life span:

"Generally speaking, your typical mid-range laptop should last roughly three years. And if you take good care of your computer, it may even last a bit longer than that."

https://store.hp.com/us/en/tech-takes/longest-lasting-hp-laptop#

!

Once you are using a laptop that is beyond 5 years old it is already ancient by IT standards and is obsolete.

Yeah true unfortunately e-waste.
But I know a lot of friends and people in my country keep older hardware including laptops.
And this old laptop I have is for my brother to play Minecraft and sister to do school work on .
Can't get a new device because of current economic situation wich affects nearly everyone and this device does the job well anyway just an av would turn it into a non usable state .

 

[Kermit80]

Most malwares that were used in the attacks on enterprises can be reused in the widespread attacks. So, sophisticated malware is not related only to enterprises. But, it is probable that most of the new methods can happen first in the attacks on enterprises.

I quote that.

1 year old now but still interesting:

https://www.kaspersky.com/about/pre...w-by-seven-percent-in-h1-2019-to-reach-430000

"[...] For private users the situation was found to be different. The list of malware that attempted to attack them is topped by Zbot malware (26%), which steals credentials with the option of remote control by threat actors, followed by RTM and Emotet (both mentioned above). Interestingly enough, in 2018 RTM was almost entirely aimed at organisations, while figures from the first half of 2019 show that this malware is now reaching a significant share of ordinary, domestic users. "

Mobile threats are also on the rise.
And then there is the compromising of supply chains (remember ccleaner?).
Unfortunately private users, while not targeted as much as companies, need protection as well.

 

[roger_m]

Once you are using a laptop that is beyond 5 years old it is already ancient by IT standards and is obsolete.

Even so, there are many people using older computers. My main laptop is 8 years old and the desktop I use for testing antiviruses is 9 years old. Despite the age, both of them are faster than new budget systems. My desktop is about three times faster than a new budget one.

 

[brigantes]

Even so, there are many people using older computers.

OEMs and software publishers move on. Hardware gets left behind.

My main laptop is 8 years old and the desktop I use for testing antiviruses is 9 years old. Despite the age, both of them are faster than new budget systems. My desktop is about three times faster than a new budget one.

And just how would you know that unless you purchased a brand new "budget" system and did an extensive side-by-side performance test ?

Please provide credible proof of what you are saying... not benchmarks published by others or comments made on forums... but real test results of your actual systems versus others with photos.

 

[show-Zi]

Depending on the purpose of use, old ones may also be used in active use. In Japan, there are environments where older models have been active for over 20 years.



In my post about the difference between corporate security and home user security, what I am concerned about these days is the number of work at home rapidly increased by Corona. Increasingly, people who don't care much about their home network environment are working online. If I were in a position to break in, that would seem like an ideal platform.

 

[ChoiceVoice]

someone here sounds like a hacker that doesn't want everybody using an AV

 

[blackice]

What's funny about this whole messy discussion is that I thought the article was asking if there was a point to running a 3rd party av anymore in 2020. Basically WD vs 3rd party, because in Windows 10 WD runs by default without a third party solution installed. And they don't make it a comfortable process to disable WD for non-tech folks since it re-enables with a restart and not simple to permanently disable, also nags when disabled. I would imagine very few people run without even WD, but I could be wrong.

 

[Cortex]

I've sorted quite a few laptops out often for users working at home during lock-down, most in excess of 5 years old some much older all have accepted windows 10 with no trouble - All have a third part AV either KIS/Norton/F-Secure Safe - Some I've added a SSD most with a reinstall & careful setup removing unwanted items starting at boot run beautifully - I haven't done benchmark tests but they all are stable & pleasant to use (you don't need benchmarks to know how a system is running) - I suppose if I were HP & selling new laptops I would give a low MTBF too, but that really is rubbish with bells on, good reason to avoid HP if that's their opinion?

 

[Local Host]

Yes, this is actually true and its of course, about a culture here in Finland and Scandinavia. Always pay for a legit softwares, be honest etc.

Honestly that's quite wrong assumption, unless you getting the Software from the wrong sources, reputable sources have no malware whasoever, if anything cracked Software tends to be safer than legit Software in some ways (as it removes home calls, and is recommended by the source itself to block it in the Firewall just-in-case).

As for people claiming "You have malware, you just don't know it" you just witch hunting, I personally haven't used AV on my main Desktop for over a decade and never had any account or credentials stolen, never seen any suspicious traffic either.

You guys should be more worried about the websites/software you visit/download being hijacked, which is my main concern nowadays, my PC is not a concern whasoever as it's supervised by me.

 

[BoraMurdar]

Guys, stick to the topic!

Thank you

 

[show-Zi]

Is third-party security software required other than WD?... I take it as a discussion that means.

I feel I don't need it. This is not from a performance comparison such as defense power, but from the aspect of stability such as the effect on updates. This means that you should understand the increased risk of installing third-party software deep inside your system before you do so.

 

[redsworn]

Are pants necessary? No, absolutely not. But you still need to wear something else to cover your wiener. That's the simplest analogy I could came up with.
Going bare naked (read: protection-less) is suicidal in this day of age no matter how experienced and skilled you are.
To me at least one form of protection is a must. Whether you prefer to use 3rd party AV, Windows Defender, App Whitelisting, etc or a combination of some of these is another matter.

 

[RaduGL]

If you have valuable data of any kind, then all you need is a flash USB to back it up and then disconnect the drive.


OEMs typically rate the lifespan of their laptops between 2 and 4 years, with 3 years being the average.

Here is an example - Hewlett Packard's official statement on the matter of laptop life span:

"Generally speaking, your typical mid-range laptop should last roughly three years. And if you take good care of your computer, it may even last a bit longer than that."

https://store.hp.com/us/en/tech-takes/longest-lasting-hp-laptop#

!

Once you are using a laptop that is beyond 5 years old it is already ancient by IT standards and is obsolete.

I have a Samsung laptop and it is almost 8 years old.

Thanks for the info, I will never buy from HP, sounds like they make their laptops to last only 3-4 years (if you're lucky).