Is Kaspersky Application Control unbeatable?

RiderExpert

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Jul 21, 2016
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Hi

I'd like to know if Kaspersky App control (with the correct configurations) can prevent with 100% certain some malware actions like encrypting files and creating autorun keys.

For example: suppose that, for my documents folder, I have denied write, create, and delete permissions for all restricted groups (LR and HR). Is it possible that an unknown ransomware, undetected by Kaspersky, can encrypt my files? (Considering that the ransomware was moved to one of the restricted groups).

I mean, even if Kaspersky consider it as a safe program, App control would still deny any changes. Is that correct?
 

Parsh

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First of all, the KSN cloud data is used to classify applications into the 4 trust groups (if you've kept that option of auto-classification in settings selected). You cannot expect that data to be correct 100% of times, yet the chances of incorrect classification based on the parameters KSN uses is rare. Even other vendors have some sort of vulnerability in such cases. For eg. trusting a valid digitally signed file completely.

For example: suppose that, for my documents folder, I have denied write, create, and delete permissions for all restricted groups (LR and HR). Is it possible that an unknown ransomware, undetected by Kaspersky, can encrypt my files? (Considering that the ransomware was moved to one of the restricted groups).
You could have either set Write/Delete access to "deny" or "prompt for action". Suppose that you've denied write access to XYZ folders for the Low-restricted and the High-restricted applications, these apps will surely not be able to modify those XYZ folder files.
Also, be it in trusted or in lower groups, the "System Watcher" ie. the behavior blocker will monitor the all of the running processes (except those for which you've manually set "exclusions") for any malicious activities by computing a threat score for the set of actions performed by the running processes. A threshold reached and the activity is alerted about!
Hence any encryption activity should potentially be blocked by the System Watcher and a rollback will be available if there was enough free space in your system "Temp" directory.

I mean, even if Kaspersky consider it as a safe program, App control would still deny any changes. Is that correct?
I think this is partially answered above.
Also, if a malicious app is set to 'Trusted' by Kaspersky (very rare chances) or by you, certain activities by that app like code injection into other process like firefox or possibly svchost or msiexec.exe ...will be allowed (you can find the actions and access allowed for trusted apps in-app) and it may not be possible to distinguish between good and bad injection since some good apps perform it too. However, the System Watcher and other components like Firewall and Web protection might defeat the malicious actions that follow the process injection. Svchost is now monitored by Kaspersky though it was set to exclusions sometime long back.
If some malicious payload is downloaded via the injected process, you know it can be handled in usual ways. If the injected app is transmitting some personal data to remote servers, I doubt if we can do much in that case unless Kaspersky identifies the malicious server or a malicious pattern in the process.

You know you've the option to select the trust group for 'unknown applications' and for 'the ones that start before Kaspersky'. Set both to 'High Restricted' unless the latter creates some notable issues.
KIS 2018 is available and you can switch to it to get a boot time protection recently added.
 
Last edited:

XhenEd

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Mar 1, 2014
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If you set Application Control right, and you know what you're doing, then you're assured to be almost bullet proof.

But nothing is perfect. If you're targeted, you will be infected. But I bet you're not, so yeah, be confident that you'll not be infected.
 

brod56

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Feb 13, 2017
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No. As said before, the BB components of Kaspersy may fail if the infection method is innovative (very rare afterall).
The only way to guarantee 100% that you're not infected is, in your case, by using the combo brain.exe+TAM mode.
 

RiderExpert

Level 2
Thread author
Verified
Jul 21, 2016
53
First of all, the KSN cloud data is used to classify applications into the 4 trust groups (if you've kept that option of auto-classification in settings selected). You cannot expect that data to be correct 100% of times, yet the chances of incorrect classification based on the parameters KSN uses is rare. Even other vendors have some sort of vulnerability in such cases. For eg. trusting a valid digitally signed file completely.


You could have either set Write/Delete access to "deny" or "prompt for action". Suppose that you've denied write access to XYZ folders for the Low-restricted and the High-restricted applications, these apps will surely not be able to modify those XYZ folder files.
Also, be it in trusted or in lower groups, the "System Watcher" ie. the behavior blocker will monitor the all of the running processes (except those for which you've manually set "exclusions") for any malicious activities by computing a threat score for the set of actions performed by the running processes. A threshold reached and the activity is alerted about!
Hence any encryption activity should potentially be blocked by the System Watcher and a rollback will be available if there was enough free space in your system "Temp" directory.


I think this is partially answered above.
Also, if a malicious app is set to 'Trusted' by Kaspersky (very rare chances) or by you, certain activities by that app like code injection into other process like firefox or possibly svchost or msiexec.exe ...will be allowed (you can find the actions and access allowed for trusted apps in-app) and it may not be possible to distinguish between good and bad injection since some good apps perform it too. However, the System Watcher and other components like Firewall and Web protection might defeat the malicious actions that follow the process injection. Svchost is now monitored by Kaspersky though it was set to exclusions sometime long back.
If some malicious payload is downloaded via the injected process, you know it can be handled in usual ways. If the injected app is transmitting some personal data to remote servers, I doubt if we can do much in that case unless Kaspersky identifies the malicious server or a malicious pattern in the process.

You know you've the option to select the trust group for 'unknown applications' and for 'the ones that start before Kaspersky'. Set both to 'High Restricted' unless the latter creates some notable issues.
KIS 2018 is available and you can switch to it to get a boot time protection recently added.

Amazing reply.

Thanks all for the answer. So yes. assuming an app is on a restricted group it would be impossible to modify the data I've denied permission.

Again, thanks :D
 

RiderExpert

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Jul 21, 2016
53
It is good stuff but in my humble opinion, nothing is 100% Especially today.

Agreed. But considering that there is no vulnerability I do think it's 100%. The thing is, there is no way to know if there is no vulnerability, so, it is not 100%
 
5

509322

Is it possible that an unknown ransomware, undetected by Kaspersky, can encrypt my files?

If you set Application Control to move unknown files to Untrusted, the answer is simplistically "No."

Unless there is some kind of vulnerability in Application Control that an attacker knows about and can successfully exploit it, I think there is very little to worry about.
 
5

509322

Yes, but if I do that I'll not be able to execute the program. There are a lot of unknown programs for KSN that I need to run. So, unfortunately, this is not an option.

If you are constantly running unknown programs then it is just a matter of time before you get hit with an infection. You're not going to tweak K's policy editor and stop all infections by making tweaks. Going that route will be fruitless and quite frankly is a waste of your time.

Your best option is to use light virtualization such as Shadow Defender or a virtual machine.

Alternatively you can use a rollback software such as Rollback RX free or Pro.
 

RiderExpert

Level 2
Thread author
Verified
Jul 21, 2016
53
If you are constantly running unknown programs then it is just a matter of time before you get hit with an infection. You're not going to tweak K's policy editor and stop all infections by making tweaks. Going that route will be fruitless and quite frankly is a waste of your time.

Your best option is to use light virtualization such as Shadow Defender or a virtual machine.

Alternatively you can use a rollback software such as Rollback RX free or Pro.

Thanks for the tip. I already use VM for some applications. I'll find out more about Rollback RX.

Thanks
 

shmu26

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If you have only a few needed apps that KIS doesn't trust, you can move them manually to the trusted category. If they slide back to untrusted, don't give up, just manually move them back up to trusted again.
If you play with a lot of new downloads that KIS doesn't trust, then this strategy will not work.
 

RiderExpert

Level 2
Thread author
Verified
Jul 21, 2016
53
If you have only a few needed apps that KIS doesn't trust, you can move them manually to the trusted category. If they slide back to untrusted, don't give up, just manually move them back up to trusted again.
If you play with a lot of new downloads that KIS doesn't trust, then this strategy will not work.

Since you mentioned...
Actually, I don't have that kind of problem. What I do have is the opposite. I want to put some windows .exe files (like cmd, wscript, cscript, rundll, etc) on the High Restricted group but Kaspersky, after some time, put them back to trusted. Do you know what I can do to sort this out?

Thanks for your reply
 

shmu26

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Jul 3, 2015
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Since you mentioned...
Actually, I don't have that kind of problem. What I do have is the opposite. I want to put some windows .exe files (like cmd, wscript, cscript, rundll, etc) on the High Restricted group but Kaspersky, after some time, put them back to trusted. Do you know what I can do to sort this out?

Thanks for your reply
Are you on 2017, or 2018? I think 2018 behaves better in that area.
Or else, you could switch to interactive mode. Then, things won't move around. If you use interactive, you could even put them in low restricted, and you will get prompts for most actions.
 
5

509322

Or else, you could switch to interactive mode. Then, things won't move around. If you use interactive, you could even put them in low restricted, and you will get prompts for most actions.

If he does that, it is going to expose a lot of really annoying bugs that are present in the HIPS, firewall alert systems and the policy editor. You can ask @harlan4096 about it.
 
5

509322

I want to put some windows .exe files (like cmd, wscript, cscript, rundll, etc) on the High Restricted group but Kaspersky, after some time, put them back to trusted. Do you know what I can do to sort this out?

This type of behavior is a known bug on some systems (x64 ?) that K has not been able to sort out. Since it has been reported many times over the past years it just might be that K doesn't consider it a bug or that they have simply chosen not to fix it because it is only security soft geeks that report it.

Your best bet would simply be to use the Allow\Block toggle switch and set it to Block for those processes in both System32 and SysWOW64. Most programs do not use them.
 
5

509322

@RiderExpert

If you want high security, find the vulnerable process list on the Excubits blog. Add those items in both System32 and SysWOW64 and then set the toggle switch to Block. Disabled by default is far more secure than adding to High Restricted. If you need some disabled process, you set the toggle switch to Allow, do what needs to be done, then immediately switch it back to Block after you are completely done.
 

RiderExpert

Level 2
Thread author
Verified
Jul 21, 2016
53
This type of behavior is a known bug on some systems (x64 ?) that K has not been able to sort out. Since it has been reported many times over the past years it just might be that K doesn't consider it a bug or that they have simply chosen not to fix it because it is only security soft geeks that report it.

Your best bet would simply be to use the Allow\Block toggle switch and set it to Block for those processes in both System32 and SysWOW64. Most programs do not use them.

Done. Thanks :D
 
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509322

Done. Thanks :D

If Low and High Restricted did not expose all kinds of bugs I would say yes. Most people try to over-configure KIS. I over-configure it to find out what is broken. There is simple toggle switch. Nobody ever mentions it. So I assume nobody ever uses it - which is a shame as it is as about a simple solution as you can get. When you need to use cmd.exe or others for safe program, you don't have to contend with any breakage caused by Low or High Restricted limits placed on process; the process is the Trusted group and will work as needed. When done, just disable it again. You will find it is not annoying.
 

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