Kaspersky sues Microsoft over claims Windows 10 is 'incompatible' with third-party AV

[russ0408]

I think you are going to see more security companies crying foul, now that WD is starting to score a lot higher in these independent tests. It doesn't matter if you believe these tests or not it is the average user that see's these tests and believes them.

 

[Visa]

Maybe Microsoft needs to be reminded that over the years, especially from XP on that their system was riddled with security holes and without 3rd party applications to fill those gaps, they may have very well lost a good portion of their market to Apple or Linux.

Nothing is full-proof, everything can be exploited. There will always be someone capable of breaking a mechanism... Look at DRM for copyright protection for example. Exploits have been developed for iOS/OS X, Android and Linux before too. As for the market share, I assure you that Microsoft has absolutely no problem there haha.

Both products I listed are having issues with the latest changes to Windows Defender.

How do you actually know that problems are being caused because of Windows Defender? Many things are changed through the Windows editions and patch updates, it may not necessarily be WD causing an issue. Even if the issues are caused by WD then the vendor can make changes to work around it or target another OS. Regardless, alternatives like Linux are always available.

Wake up and smell the coffee, this entire law suit is about Kaspersky wanting more money by making more sales.

 

[S3cur1ty 3nthu5145t]

How do you actually know that problems are being caused because of Windows Defender?

Well, if you again, re-read what I have posted in this thread, you would have seen I posted that I have actually tested both myself and seen it first hand. How may you ask, did I know what I was looking at, well, follow these instructions and test it yourself. It really is quite simple.

-Create a VM Guest machine "preferably Windows 10"
-Download Both Norton and Eset into the Downloads folder
-create a snapshot of the Guest machine
-start guest machine and disable Windows Defender either via Group Policy Editor or Registry
-Now install one of the suites to see if it installs correctly with no issues

-Now repeat this process leaving Windows Defender enabled.

Wake up and smell the coffee, this entire law suit is about Kaspersky wanting more money by making more sales.

lol, It is all I can smell, I drink it from the time I get up until the time I go to bed, an old military habit.

 

[Visa]

Well, if you again, re-read what I have posted in this thread, you would have seen I posted that I have actually tested both myself and seen it first hand. How may you ask, did I know what I was looking at, well, follow these instructions and test it yourself. It really is quite simple.

-Create a VM Guest machine "preferably Windows 10"
-Download Both Norton and Eset into the Downloads folder
-create a snapshot of the Guest machine
-start guest machine and disable Windows Defender either via Group Policy Editor or Registry
-Now install one of the suites to see if it installs correctly with no issues

-Now repeat this process only leaving Windows Defender enabled.

I doubt it has anything to do with Microsoft. Find some real evidence to backup your statements, right now you're just posting theories from inaccurate tests.

The most I have ever seen from Windows is a notification recommending me to disable a third-party AV and use WD. It didn't stop me from using the other product though.

 

[S3cur1ty 3nthu5145t]

I doubt it has anything to do with Microsoft. Find some real evidence to backup your statements, right now you're just posting theories from inaccurate tests.

The most I have ever seen from Windows is a notification recommending me to disable a third-party AV and use WD. It didn't stop me from using the other product though.

Did you happen to over look this link I posted as well.
Windows Defender causes freezing issues after installation/update of ESET security products

Since you believe my method for seeing if Windows Defender was flawed, do you care to enlighten us on how the proper way would be?

 

[Visa]

do you care to enlighten us on how the proper way would be?

Reverse Windows Defender to prove that the functionality was implemented by MS to sabotage other AV products. Even basic techniques to check if the product performs searches for other AV install paths, registry keys or other GUIDs would be a start.

Of course they might be responsible for what is happening but it isn't happening for ALL security products which are popular, and I've had no issues myself, nor know anyone in person with said issues. Which makes me believe that it is probably a reaction conflict to Windows Defender for a few specific products.

At the end of the day it could be caused by WD but unintentionally and if this is the case then yes MS should resolve it but they don't have to & it wouldn't count as sabotage, vendor could work around it.

 

[509322]

Reverse Windows Defender to prove that the functionality was implemented by MS to sabotage other AV products. Even basic techniques to check if the product performs searches for other AV install paths, registry keys or other GUIDs would be a start.

Of course they might be responsible for what is happening but it isn't happening for ALL security products which are popular, and I've had no issues myself, nor know anyone in person with said issues. Which makes me believe that it is probably a reaction conflict to Windows Defender for a few specific products.

At the end of the day it could be caused by WD but unintentionally and if this is the case then yes MS should resolve it but they don't have to & it wouldn't count as sabotage, vendor could work around it.

The problems are not so much technical. I think the main issue is the way that SillySoft promotes WD - with popups and suggestions to remove an installed antivirus product. They are doing the same thing with WD as they do when the install of Chrome is detected = you get the popups promoting Edge over Chrome.

The promotion behaviors of WD have changed a little bit over the past months, but it is still there.

 

[S3cur1ty 3nthu5145t]

Reverse Windows Defender to prove that the functionality was implemented by MS to sabotage other AV products. Even basic techniques to check if the product performs searches for other AV install paths, registry keys or other GUIDs would be a start.

I view that depth unnecessary, as I never stated that it was intentional or sabotage nor would it be my place to find it, but simply stated that it is causing conflicts for a couple other products, which can be easily reproduced time and time again with my flawed method above. Many have not reported these issues as they were already running the products on the systems that were upgraded/updated, but future clean installs of those couple products clearly are having issues installing.

 

[Visa]

I view that depth unnecessary, as I never stated that it was intentional or sabotage nor would it be my place to find it, but simply stated that it is causing conflicts for a couple other products, which can be easily reproduced time and time again with my flawed method above.

The depth is certainly necessary to really prove if such activity is going on intentionally or not, and the only reason I stepped in and quoted you was because when I read your posts about the conflicts I was under the impression that you were already implying that it was down to Microsoft as an intentional act. My apologies if I got that wrong.

I don't think it really matters anyway, it doesn't affect me or anyone I know and I've been unable to replicate it. Seems to be a few select AV products which have a problem as opposed to all other popular and modern ones - this implies that its a genuine conflict... Why would Microsoft target ESET installation but not do the same for Emsisoft, Avast, Avira, Qihoo and most others?

Good debate though

 

[S3cur1ty 3nthu5145t]

I was under the impression that you were already implying that it was down to Microsoft as an intentional act. My apologies if I got that wrong.

I was not implying anything other then there seems to be an issue with the latest changes to Windows Defender that is affecting a couple other Vendors as well. Norton "well known product" of the two, has the very same issue upon a clean install as Eset has been facing.

Imagine you just cleanly installed your system, and placed Norton Security on, and all looks well, until you go to check your security status, and notice both the firewall and Av section missing in it, you then open Windows Defender Security Center to see Windows defender stating that it is off and urging you to "turn it on" while at the same time not recognizing the product you just installed, or even worse yet, you open the security center and find both Windows Default Security "windows defender & Firewall" are running along side you 3rd party Internet security suite because it was not recognized. This, is what is happening with Both products I have listed and tested.

This statement alone by a MS representative is enough to make you question Microsoft's stance, and is certainly not the first time I have heard a MS representative claim such non sense.

In a sensational claim, Kaspersky says that a customer in France was told by a Microsoft representative that "Windows 10 is incompatible with third-party antivirus. It's a shame that you've spent money on a Kaspersky Lab product, but you can't reinstall it without running the risk of the appearance of new bugs."

Microsoft causes issues all the time - one way or another.

1. unannounced changes
2. more strict policies without notice
3. undocumented stuff
4. unilaterally making changes without consulting anyone

I don't think it really matters anyway, it doesn't affect me or anyone I know and I've been unable to replicate it.
Good debate though

If the users you know are already running security on their system before the update, then you probably will not see an issue. It is clean installs of both Vendors I mentioned that are affected. Which means any further selling and installing of their products will be hampered until they can find a work around.

This was an unnecessary debate, a good look at the article tells much, and the link I posted provides more proof that the changes made recently, have certainly affected some 3rd party products.