Shadow Defender stopped working

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Jul 5, 2016
410
Operating System
Windows 10
Installed Antivirus
Malwarebytes
#1
Today I noticed Shadow Defender won't start up. The service is running.
Only thing I have changed is updating to latest insider build and Marcrium Reflect. Tried removing Marcrium Reflect but that did no help. Wondering if anyone else is seeing this? I hate to go back to the previous build of Insider build. Insider build 17063
 
Likes: BryanB

Opcode

Level 26
Content Creator
Aug 17, 2017
1,551
Installed Antivirus
Qihoo 360
#2
Shadow Defender likely relies on many undocumented interfaces/hacky methods. Using such software on Insider builds is the easiest way to run into unexpected bugs (potentially leading to system-wide crashes causing data-corruption, or an unbootable system). Microsoft probably changed something which Shadow Defender doesn't agree with/get along well with. Contact support and let them know there's a problem.

You should use stable build releases when using such security software. In fact, even using traditional security solutions is not a good idea at all when using Insider builds. Security software tends to do many things which Microsoft may dislike for various functionality, all it takes is one change to mess everything up which requires manual assistance for an update push as the solution.

Stick to stable build releases and you should be fine. Revert back if you want to use Shadow Defender for the time being. If you want to keep using Insider builds, don't be surprised when things break at an instant or unexpectedly, or pretend to be working but actually don't do their job properly silently.
 
Jul 5, 2016
410
Operating System
Windows 10
Installed Antivirus
Malwarebytes
#3
Shadow Defender likely relies on many undocumented interfaces/hacky methods. Using such software on Insider builds is the easiest way to run into unexpected bugs (potentially leading to system-wide crashes causing data-corruption, or an unbootable system). Microsoft probably changed something which Shadow Defender doesn't agree with/get along well with. Contact support and let them know there's a problem.

You should use stable build releases when using such security software. In fact, even using traditional security solutions is not a good idea at all when using Insider builds. Security software tends to do many things which Microsoft may dislike for various functionality, all it takes is one change to mess everything up which requires manual assistance for an update push as the solution.

Stick to stable build releases and you should be fine. Revert back if you want to use Shadow Defender for the time being. If you want to keep using Insider builds, don't be surprised when things break at an instant or unexpectedly, or pretend to be working but actually don't do their job properly silently.
I hear that and so far none of my security software has not been broken due to insider builds. I have sent a support ticket already. Will see what they say. I know the newest Marcrium Build has many changes too and even uninstalling it may have not worked. This is something I will deal with more after New Years holiday.
 

Opcode

Level 26
Content Creator
Aug 17, 2017
1,551
Installed Antivirus
Qihoo 360
#4
I hear that and so far none of my security software has not been broken due to insider builds
Yes it has, Shadow Defender broke. ;)

So the people you heard it from in the past were providing good advice. Because you would have avoided the Shadow Defender breakage on a stable build.

But I see what you mean. Each to their own, if you want to use Insider builds then np but I am not surprised SD broke and in fact I am surprised it didn't happen earlier on
 
Jul 5, 2016
410
Operating System
Windows 10
Installed Antivirus
Malwarebytes
#5
Yes it has, Shadow Defender broke. ;)

So the people you heard it from in the past were providing good advice. Because you would have avoided the Shadow Defender breakage on a stable build.

But I see what you mean
So do you think SD has a fault after all this time? I still use TinyWall which was never signed by MS and it still works just fine.
 
Likes: Opcode

Opcode

Level 26
Content Creator
Aug 17, 2017
1,551
Installed Antivirus
Qihoo 360
#6
So do you think SD has a fault after all this time?
I think that they probably used an undocumented API for something and that it no longer works on the latest update, or they did something but it was crushed by a change made by Microsoft. But without more details internally about where the breakage is, I can't really say much else. As long as its a general issue caused by the update, it should be patched up by the official stable release of the version. I think your best bet would be to contact them though

Could have been anything, there will be a ton of stuff to Shadow Defender

Was it a BSOD crash or just it isn't agreeing to enable?
 
Jul 5, 2016
410
Operating System
Windows 10
Installed Antivirus
Malwarebytes
#7
I think that they probably used an undocumented API for something and that it no longer works on the latest update, or they did something but it was crushed by a change made by Microsoft. But without more details internally about where the breakage is, I can't really say much else. As long as its a general issue caused by the update, it should be patched up by the official stable release of the version. I think your best bet would be to contact them though

Could have been anything, there will be a ton of stuff to Shadow Defender

Was it a BSOD crash or just it isn't agreeing to enable?
Not a BSOD, The service is running but the GUI won't open. I will know for sure when I replace the image to the last working build after New Years.
 
Likes: Opcode

Opcode

Level 26
Content Creator
Aug 17, 2017
1,551
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#8
Oh? Why didn't you say! The GUI will be completely separate I think, I doubt it has anything to do with the protection then. Therefore, I recon it is just an average, simple to fix bug, unrelated to anything critical etc. and it isn't a BSOD so it likely isn't related to any kernel-mode components - the service is probably a middle-man between the KM components and the UI.

edit: You did kinda say but I didn't find it clear enough, my bad.

I recon if you contact them it'll be fixed in no time, probably matter of less than a few days
 
Likes: SHvFl

SHvFl

Level 32
Content Creator
Verified
Nov 19, 2014
2,161
Operating System
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Emsisoft
#9
Oh? Why didn't you say! The GUI will be completely separate I think, I doubt it has anything to do with the protection then. Therefore, I recon it is just an average, simple to fix bug, unrelated to anything critical etc. and it isn't a BSOD so it likely isn't related to any kernel-mode components - the service is probably a middle-man between the KM components and the UI.

edit: You did kinda say but I didn't find it clear enough, my bad.

I recon if you contact them it'll be fixed in no time, probably matter of less than a few days
Assuming the developer replies. I made a bug report send by email maybe years ago and he has yet to reply :p
 
Likes: Opcode
Jul 5, 2016
410
Operating System
Windows 10
Installed Antivirus
Malwarebytes
#10
Assuming the developer replies. I made a bug report send by email maybe years ago and he has yet to reply :p
He replied to me yesterday asking the usual questions of, what is your OS version and am I using the latest SD build. I replied today but he probly took the weekend off.
 
Likes: Opcode
Jul 5, 2016
410
Operating System
Windows 10
Installed Antivirus
Malwarebytes
#11
Assuming the developer replies. I made a bug report send by email maybe years ago and he has yet to reply :p
Update: Dev sent me an e-mail even after I told him I had uninstalled it and reinstalled and all he said was install it again. I don't think he cares but think he will when others have the same issue. I decided not to load an older image just to get SD working again.
 
Likes: Opcode

SHvFl

Level 32
Content Creator
Verified
Nov 19, 2014
2,161
Operating System
Windows 10
Installed Antivirus
Emsisoft
#12
Update: Dev sent me an e-mail even after I told him I had uninstalled it and reinstalled and all he said was install it again. I don't think he cares but think he will when others have the same issue. I decided not to load an older image just to get SD working again.
Such licencing models can't work and make successful programs. Eventually being a small unknown company you will not have enough revenue so you will have to support mostly old customers that offer you 0 upside. Hence you get tired and just milk it for as long as possible doing as little as possible. I don't blame the devs but i for sure don't support them.
 
Jul 5, 2016
410
Operating System
Windows 10
Installed Antivirus
Malwarebytes
#13
Such licencing models can't work and make successful programs. Eventually being a small unknown company you will not have enough revenue so you will have to support mostly old customers that offer you 0 upside. Hence you get tired and just milk it for as long as possible doing as little as possible. I don't blame the devs but i for sure don't support them.
I have paid for a lot of software over the years , only to have them go belly up after a few years. Or after they get your lifetime lic, they sell out and the new owner start charging yearly fees.
 

Opcode

Level 26
Content Creator
Aug 17, 2017
1,551
Installed Antivirus
Qihoo 360
#14
I have paid for a lot of software over the years , only to have them go belly up after a few years. Or after they get your lifetime lic, they sell out and the new owner start charging yearly fees.
Is this even legal?

If someone purchases a lifetime license and you sign a contract at the time of purchase which validates your license, then that license is enforced. If there is no signed agreement which gives you the right to enforce your lifetime license, then simply don't purchase it, because it's an easy loop-hole for the vendor to evade their promise.
 

SHvFl

Level 32
Content Creator
Verified
Nov 19, 2014
2,161
Operating System
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Emsisoft
#15
Is this even legal?

If someone purchases a lifetime license and you sign a contract at the time of purchase which validates your license, then that license is enforced. If there is no signed agreement which gives you the right to enforce your lifetime license, then simply don't purchase it, because it's an easy loop-hole for the vendor to evade their promise.
They just change version so if you want to keep getting new features you have to switch from your lifetime license to yearly. This is what usually happens.
 
Jul 5, 2016
410
Operating System
Windows 10
Installed Antivirus
Malwarebytes
#16
Update: Just installed SD in an older version of Windows VM and it works fine and so The developer is biding his time with this program. Another program down the tubes.
 
Likes: Opcode

Umbra

Level 61
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May 16, 2011
17,486
Operating System
Windows 10
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Default-Deny
#17
Is this even legal?

If someone purchases a lifetime license and you sign a contract at the time of purchase which validates your license, then that license is enforced. If there is no signed agreement which gives you the right to enforce your lifetime license, then simply don't purchase it, because it's an easy loop-hole for the vendor to evade their promise.
Lifetime isn't the user's "lifetime" but the version or product lifetime.
basically Lifetime License is a bait to create a user-base then is ditched once the base is deemed large enough, so yearly licenses can start really help in the development of the company.
 
Jul 5, 2016
410
Operating System
Windows 10
Installed Antivirus
Malwarebytes
#18
Update:

Tony got back to me this morning with a registry key I had to manually add, then reboot. That fixed the GUI issue. SD is working again.
 
Likes: Opcode
Aug 5, 2012
140
#19
I have paid for a lot of software over the years , only to have them go belly up after a few years. Or after they get your lifetime lic, they sell out and the new owner start charging yearly fees.
Yes but unfortunately a lifetime license means that we have purchased it for the lifetime of the product not for our lifetime of living. :) Some devs keep their promise after the business is sold e. g. Sandboxie for which i have a long lifetime license and the honour it and i still receive updates even today.
 

Opcode

Level 26
Content Creator
Aug 17, 2017
1,551
Installed Antivirus
Qihoo 360
#20
For the record, I thought he was saying his lifetime was revoked for the product version he bought it for. If they change the product then they can do whatever, etc.

Makes sense, lifetime licenses suck for long term business