Snowden foes say NSA leaks endanger troops, help terrorists

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Dima007

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Two members of the House Intelligence Committee say a secret Pentagon report shows Edward Snowden's leaking of NSA documents has "tipped off US adversaries." But they don't provide any details.

Thursday saw the latest salvo in the "Edward Snowden: Hero or Traitor?" debate, as the top two members of the House Intelligence Committee said a classified Pentagon report found that Snowden's leaking of NSA documents had endangered US troops and helped terrorists -- though they declined to provide specifics.

"This report confirms my greatest fears -- Snowden's real acts of betrayal place America's military men and women at greater risk," committee Chairman Mike Rogers said in a statement cited by Foreign Policy. "Snowden's actions are likely to have lethal consequences for our troops in the field."

Rogers, a former Army officer and FBI agent, has been a vocal defender of the NSA's surveillance programs. He was joined in his statements today by the committee's ranking minority member, Dutch Ruppersberger, also a defender of the NSA's mass collection of data under the Patriot Act.

Thursday saw the latest salvo in the "Edward Snowden: Hero or Traitor?" debate, as the top two members of the House Intelligence Committee said a classified Pentagon report found that Snowden's leaking of NSA documents had endangered US troops and helped terrorists -- though they declined to provide specifics.

"This report confirms my greatest fears -- Snowden's real acts of betrayal place America's military men and women at greater risk," committee Chairman Mike Rogers said in a statement cited by Foreign Policy. "Snowden's actions are likely to have lethal consequences for our troops in the field."

Rogers, a former Army officer and FBI agent, has been a vocal defender of the NSA's surveillance programs. He was joined in his statements today by the committee's ranking minority member, Dutch Ruppersberger, also a defender of the NSA's mass collection of data under the Patriot Act.

"Snowden handed terrorists a copy of our country's playbook and now we are paying the price, which this report confirms," Ruppersberger said in a statement cited by various reports.

The two lawmakers said the Snowden leaks had "tipped off our adversaries to the sources and methods of our defense, and hurt US allies helping us with counterterrorism; cybercrime; human and narcotics trafficking; and the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction," Foreign Policy reported.

Neither Rogers nor Ruppersberger provided specific evidence to support those assertions. A committee spokeswoman told blog The Hill that the lawmakers couldn't offer details because the Pentagon report is classified.

Rogers and Ruppersberger said in July of last year that the NSA's blanket collection of data "has been integral in preventing multiple terrorist attacks." That claim -- made also by the NSA and in keeping with the agency's main talking point in defense of its programs -- was challenged in December by the panel handpicked by President Barack Obama to investigate the NSA's efforts. (And it's also been challenged by NSA critics for some time.)

Responding to Thursday's reports on the congressmen's statements and on the Pentagon report, Glenn Greenwald -- the journalist to whom Snowden provided many of the purloined NSA documents -- tweeted, "US Govt warns: leaks help Terrorists, endanger national security! -- for every leak over the last 40 years." Greenwald linked to a post by the nonprofit Freedom of the Press Foundation that discusses government claims about WikiLeaks and the Pentagon Papers.

In an interview with CNET last month, Greenwald said the House Intelligence Committee is "worse than toothless, it exists to endorse what the Intelligence Community does."

Snowden, of course, is at the center of a debate over national security and civil liberties and is wanted by the US government under the Espionage Act. Critics such as Rogers and Ruppersberger say he's a traitor, whereas defenders, such as The New York Times' editorial board, say he's a whistle-blower who should be given clemency for exposing NSA abuses.

The back and forth over Snowden and the NSA may well increase in pitch over the coming months, as both the legislative and executive branches consider proposals to rein in the agency, the courts weigh the constitutionality of NSA programs, and tech-community bigwigs lobby for change.
 

Exterminator

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Yeah and Iraq had weapons of mass destruction.Just forget about Snowden and get to the more important stuff like unemployment,economy,homeless,hunger,health care,Disease,ect.
 
I

illumination

They are just trying to get those helping Snowden to sympathize with them, they would like very much to make an example of him, so that no one down the road will think to do it again.

Im at a cross road with this, as being a former soldier from the US, i find it disturbing that someone would just dump all this material of OUR goverments programs out on the table like that "considering all goverments do the same crap", only difference is now, they know of some of our methods.

On the other hand, many freedoms of the US people have been trampled in the process, which i do not find right either.

Where is the fine balance in this, well, politically there is none. Physically there can not be any either. As long as the terrorist and those against the US communicate, and move secretly, the US really has no choice but to monitor everything it can. Unless there is a genius out there that can explain to me, how they can observe/monitor for secret communications "with out" stepping on some toes, and then they would have to convince me that other countries are not doing the same..
 
D

Deleted member 178

I dont blame them to overspy, just to let all that spying stuff leaked.

An old sage said: "you can cheat, lie, steal; just dont get caught". :D
 

Prorootect

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Illumination wrote: 'As long as the terrorist and those against the US communicate, and move secretly, the US really has no choice but to monitor everything it can.'
- Sure.

NSA's 'greater transparency' - 'would put the country at greater risk of terrorist attacks.'

Look here:
NSA makes final push to retain most mass surveillance powers : http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/10/nsa-mass-surveillance-powers-john-inglis-npr

'Security officials concede a need for greater transparency and for adjustments to broad domestic intelligence collection, but argue that limiting the scope of such collection would put the country at greater risk of terrorist attacks.'
 

kevbo

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Dec 31, 2013
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Thank you, illumination, for your service.

And I agree with you that it is difficult to strike a balance between security and privacy. But what good does it do if we destroy our principles while trying to protect our way of life; if that happens, who then has really won the battle.

The rights we enjoy as a society are predicated upon the proper functioning of our government, and that government was designed to function properly within a system of checks and balances. What the NSA surveillance programs have been doing is making an end run around those checks and balances by the use of secret FISA courts. And then claiming that they are protecting us, that the ends justify the means, but they cannot give us specific examples of the successes of their secret programs, because it would jeopardize those same programs. It is a perfect circular argument, secure from any scrutiny or criticism.

The point that should be made is that not everything should be public knowledge, but that does not mean it should be kept secret from everyone. There has to be a point where these policies and programs are reviewed, and not simply rubber-stamped.
 

kevbo

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It snowed Friday, and it rained Saturday, but that doesn't mean a rainy day will always follow a snowy day.
With all due respect, the logic you applied is flawed. No proof has been given that these programs are working that way.

from the article:
they declined to provide specifics

Neither Rogers nor Ruppersberger provided specific evidence to support those assertions.

Rogers and Ruppersberger said in July of last year that the NSA's blanket collection of data "has been integral in preventing multiple terrorist attacks." That claim -- made also by the NSA and in keeping with the agency's main talking point in defense of its programs -- was challenged in December by the panel handpicked by the President to investigate the NSA's efforts.

Concrete proof will need to be given before I give away my cherished freedoms to a faceless and unanswerable bureacracy operating a program of dubious constitutionality, and I will have to think long and hard about it, if that concrete evidence is ever produced.
 

Exterminator

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I might not agree with everything the NSA or the Government does but I have to agree with Bo.It is a new world after 9/11 and a much more technically advanced world.Unfortunately the bad guys use it to their advantage also.Do I like the fact that some who are given positions within these agencies exploit them,no, but unfortunately some these programs are a necessity.
Do I think they can do this without infringing upon citizens constitutional rights,yes.Without some of these programs,as sad is it is to say,all of our freedoms might be in jeopardy and not just in the U.S. but around the world.
 

kevbo

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Dec 31, 2013
56
@exterminator20
@bo.elam

You both may be right, and I certainly don't discount the importance of secret sureillance in today's world.

On the other hand, this article from The Guardian provides food for thought on at least one aspect of the consequences of these programs, which I've already alluded to. Link to the article is below, but some pertinent quotes follow.

In any case, thanks for an intelligent and respectful conversation as to our differences of opinion.

http://goo.gl/bdyd75

Washington has handed Osama bin Laden his last and greatest triumph. The Prism files revealed in the Guardian indicate how far his bid to undermine western values has succeeded in the 12 years since 9/11. He has achieved state intrusion into the private lives and communications of every American citizen. He has shown the self-proclaimed home of individual freedom as so paranoid in the face of his "terror" as to infiltrate the entire internet, sucking up mobile phone calls, emails, texts and, we may assume, GPS movements...

Inducing such paranoia about terror – always called "al-Qaida-linked terror" – is precisely what Islam's jihadist regard as the crucial first step in undermining the west's pseudo-liberalism. It requires democracy to lose faith in oversight, to let securocrats off the leash, to capitulate to "better safe than free"...

9/11 brought into being an edifice of creeping surveillance and repression which democracy is clearly unable to curb. It has never been so at risk as now, from its own loss of faith in liberty. Osama bin Laden would be clapping his hands with glee.

Another post on this forum concerning how effective the surveillance has been: http://goo.gl/SSUAyr





 
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Prorootect

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Nov 5, 2011
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Illumination wrote: 'As long as the terrorist and those against the US communicate, and move secretly, the US really has no choice but to monitor everything it can.'
-Exactly.
I wrote somewhere else: 'And if someone attacks NSA, you first ask the question: 'Who benefits?'
- and then:
Where is Snowden, please?
Who writes, where and why?
- yes Bo:
'Personally, I don't put much value on any article in The Guardian, they seem to have an agenda.'
-Propagandist agenda. Or 'useful idiot' agenda, who know ..
 

kevbo

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Dec 31, 2013
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It is a universal truth that the loss of liberty at home is to be charged to the provisions against danger, real or pretended, from abroad.

-James Madison
 
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viktik

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Sep 17, 2013
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They want everyone under surveillance and not just terrorist. They tapped germany's angela merkel phone. This proves that.

Military and intelligence people lie all the time. Its hard to tell when they are telling the truth.
 
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