Solved SSHD Question

[_CyberGhosT_]

Question,
I am a little impatient, I was going to wait and install the firecudas at the same time it was in shop for the Mobo to get installed. Well I have to wait as our local guy is back scheduled.
I am wanting to install and set up the firecudas, but I have Ccleaner pro installed. Now if I follow correctly
the SSD portion of the Firecudas is to speedup frequently accessed programs, but the programs are
still written to the magnetic disc like with a HDD.
Should I just delete CCleaner ?
I think given the way Seagate is doing this that it would be ok to keep Ccleaner, but with this "hybrid"
type of drive I want to err on the side of caution.
What do you think ?

 

[Duotone]

As you guys are talking about SSD will a frequent system image restore shorten longevity of an SSD?!

 

[SHvFl]

You're welcome
This is the best what SSD can offer for now. But its price tag is astronomic for the most of the people
SSD 960 PRO M.2 2TB Memory & Storage - MZ-V6P2T0BW | Samsung US

But that is an nmve drive which pushes the price to another level of stupid. The bad thing about ssd is that the standard keeps changing because we push the limits so they can keep prices relatively up for the new technology.

As you guys are talking about SSD will a frequent system image restore shorten longevity of an SSD?!

It depends. If your restore program just replaces the changes then you will not be writing a lot. If you have a large ssd and your program replaces every byte it writes a fair amount. Will it matter? Probably not except if you do a restore every day with a program that replaces everything.

@_CyberGhosT_ You don't need a 2TB ssd. For example i am getting the nvme drive linked below soon just for OS. It makes no sense to pay that much for an nvme drive except for the OS. Everything else a normal ssd will do that has half the price.

Amazon.com: Samsung 960 EVO Series - 250GB PCIe NVMe - M.2 Internal SSD (MZ-V6E250BW): Computers & Accessories

 

[_CyberGhosT_]

The average game "I play" now SHvFI is 40 to 60+ GIG
I could fill that up with 4 to 6 games and I have a
huge library I like to frequent, getting 2TB is me
being modest in my estimation

 

[SHvFl]

The average game "I play" now SHvFI is 40 to 60+ GIG
I could fill that up with 4 yo 6 games and I have a
huge library I like to frequent, getting 2TB is me
being modest in my estimation

Games don't benefit from ssd though except loading time which is irrelevant to the actual game so you can put them on an hdd.

 

[_CyberGhosT_]

Games don't benefit from ssd though except loading time which is irrelevant to the actual game so you can put them on an hdd.

Hummm, keep the games on the FireCudas, and SSD all other programs and media ?
then maybe I could get away with a single 500gig SSD, and have time to get used to one.
Thanks SHvFI borther. it's something to ponder.

 

[Paul123]

Thanks SHvFI,
I chose a SSHD because of the typical lifespan of a SSD is still not on par with even the low end HDD's.

I think a lot of this is hype and scaremongering. Modern SSDs are likely to outlast most user's requirements, and the PC is likely to be scrapped long before the SSD runs out of space or starts to degrade due to it.
My laptop according to Samsung magician (with a Samsung 840), after 2 years has only had 3.5TBs of data written to it, but manufacturers official lifetime I think is around 70TB (so that's a good 20 years). According to the article below, however, many SSDs go on much much longer (800TB for the 840):

The SSD Endurance Experiment: They're all dead

The boost in speed you get from an SSD, means that once you use one, you'll never go back, and more than compensates for the 'limited' lifespan.

 

[Paul123]

As you guys are talking about SSD will a frequent system image restore shorten longevity of an SSD?!

Yep, I have two SSDs in my PC, one for Windows and the other for data. Ive done quite a few (full disk) restores on the Windows one, and its almost twice the number of TBs written as the data disk (which I dont restore), and assume this is because of restores. However, as Ive said in my previous post I wouldn't worry about lifespan.

Like @SHvFI says, you can reduce the data written by just restoring back to any changes, rather than a full disk restore.

 

[_CyberGhosT_]

I think a lot of this is hype and scaremongering. Modern SSDs are likely to outlast most user's requirements, and the PC is likely to be scrapped long before the SSD runs out of space or starts to degrade due to it.
My laptop according to Samsung magician (with a Samsung 840), after 2 years has only had 3.5TBs of data written to it, but manufacturers official lifetime I think is around 70TB (so that's a good 20 years). According to the article below, however, many SSDs go on much much longer (800TB for the 840):

The SSD Endurance Experiment: They're all dead

The boost in speed you get from an SSD, means that once you use one, you'll never go back, and more than compensates for the 'limited' lifespan.

If you read the whole thread, its the size availability more than anything for me,
and I believe I made that very clear

 

[Paul123]

If you read the whole thread, its the size availability more than anything for me,
and I believe I made that very clear

That's fair enough. I agree SSD storage is still more expensive than HHD's. Previous to using 2 SSDs, I had an SSD for windows, and the normal HHD for data which seemed to work well. I still have normal HHDs for my external drives because of their relative cheapness.

 

[_CyberGhosT_]

That's fair enough. I agree SSD storage is still more expensive than HHD's. Previous to using 2 SSDs, I had an SSD for windows, and the normal HHD for data which seemed to work well. I still have normal HHDs for my external drives because of their relative cheapness.

Well, size availability too is an issue, but @BoraMurdar helped me find some,
I have to have large drives and for reliability I buy 2 for the ease of replacement
in the event of a failed drive. If that happens I have a active clone I can pop in and
keep rolling while I wait for a replacement not long ago you could not buy a SSD
that was 1gig let alone 2gig. But as Bora has pointed out those bigger drives are now
arriving in the market, availability was a bigger issue for me, not so much price.
Thanks Paul.

 

[Digerati]

I chose a SSHD because of the typical lifespan of a SSD is still not on par with even the
low end HDD's.

That is totally not true!

Until SSD lifespans & "Sizes" are extended I am not interested in them.

@Digerati
I'm too savvy to just base what I buy on speed, popularity and trends,
and as a private contractor for BNSF I can assure you the cost was not
even taken into consideration

Then sorry, but you really need to get more savvy! As BoraMurder correctly noted, the lifespans of typical SSDs are considerably longer than HDs. Remember, there are no moving parts in a SSD, therefore no friction and less internal heat build-up.

Note that most hard drives are warrantied for 3, 2, or even just 1 year. The best drives are warrantied for 5 years. But many SSDs have 10 year warranties with MTBF specs of 2,000,000 hours! That's over 228 years, by the way. Of course MTBF does not really work that way, but 2 million hours does show the maker has a lot of faith in the product. And the makers would not assume that liability if the product couldn't last.

Yes, SSDs still cost more per gigabyte, but if you spread those costs over the life of the drive, and factor in savings in energy, it is almost a wash. For many, if you factor in increased productivity due to incredibly fast boot/reboot times and other performance increases, SSDs can save you money.

and limited write hours all SSD's suffer from

I am afraid you are behind the times. With first generation SSDs, this was a problem. But not anymore. This is why more and more data centers are even going with SSDs. Remember, compared to reads, users write very little to SSDs. This is why SSDs are ideally suited for Page Files. See Support and Q&A for Solid-State Drives and scroll down to "Frequently Asked Questions, Should the pagefile be placed on SSDs?" While the article is getting old, it applies even more so today since wear problems of early generation SSDs are no longer a problem and each new generation of SSD gets better and better.

For me Price was never a factor, it boiled down to longevity and reliability.

Then with your longevity and reliability concerns rightfully debunked, and you've made it clear money is not an issue, take a closer look at performance. Even the slowest SSD will run circles around the fastest hard drives, even solid state hard drives.

I've been using exclusively SSDs in all my builds since 2013 and I will never go back to hard drives for my boot, program or data drives. To this day, I am still amazed at how fast my systems boot. By far, the bottleneck in boot times for my computers is Windows waiting for me to enter my password!

 

[SHvFl]

Hummm, keep the games on the FireCudas, and SSD all other programs and media ?
then maybe I could get away with a single 500gig SSD, and have time to get used to one.
Thanks SHvFI borther. it's something to ponder.

Honestly i don't think it's humanly possible to fill a 500GB ssd with just programs and OS and you will feel like you just bought a new system twice as good as the one you use now. It's the most important upgrade in reality for system performance atm and if you go with m.2 nvme(motherboard needs to support boot from it and if it doesn't have an m.2 slot with speed you need a pci-e to m.2 module) you are set for a while. If you ever decide to do with it i can help you so just pm me and we will figure it out. I know hardware so at least i can be useful with that.

 

[Digerati]

Honestly i don't think it's humanly possible to fill a 500GB ssd with just programs and OS

It would be hard. I even have 3,727 songs from 443 CDs on my secondary SSD and they only take up 55.7GB.

My C drive holds my OS (64-bit W10 Pro), all my apps including Office 2007 Pro, and 10 years of emails, and all my data files too and I still have 100GB free on the 256GB drive.

I know some games can be huge, as can some large video files. And image files of monster drives. But everything else should easily fit on a 500GB drive.

 

[SHvFl]

It would be hard. I even have 3,727 songs from 443 CDs on my secondary SSD and they only take up 55.7GB.

My C drive holds my OS (64-bit W10 Pro), all my apps including Office 2007 Pro, and 10 years of emails, and all my data files too and I still have 100GB free on the 256GB drive.

I know some games can be huge, as can some large video files. And image files of monster drives. But everything else should easily fit on a 500GB drive.

But all the stuff you mentioned except those for C don't need an ssd and don't benefit from an ssd. So in theory if you don't use a weird program that is has 200gb of files then a 500gb ssd will be able to take everything and even 3-4 games easily.

 

[Digerati]

But all the stuff you mentioned except those for C don't need an ssd and don't benefit from an ssd.

My comments had nothing to do with whether they would benefit from an SSD or not. I was just commenting on the small amount of space that many music files take up. It's not much.

But to get nit picky, there's no wear and tear listening (reading) those music files from an SSD. But if those music files were on a hard drive, reading the files in would put wear and tear on the motors - especially the R/W stepper motor. So in that respect, you could say they benefit being on a SSD.

 

[BoraMurdar]

For storing data purposes, if money isn't a factor to consider, then a SSD is better option to chose.

 

[Paul123]

There is the security

For storing data purposes, if money isn't a factor to consider, then a SSD is better option to chose.

There is the security aspect to consider though with SSDs. From my understanding its relatively easy to securely delete data from normal HHDs, but an SSD doesnt have the guarantee that the data is overwritten. Banks and military sites often have to consider this when choosing hardware, though from what I've encountered in the past with customers such as these their usual method is to just to physically destroy the disk.

I'm not even sure formatting the disk with an SSD removes the data?

 

[SHvFl]

There is the security

There is the security aspect to consider though with SSDs as I understand. From my understanding its relatively easy to securely delete data from normal HHDs, but an SSD doesnt have the guarantee that the data is overwritten. Banks and military sites often have to consider this when choosing hardware, though from what Iv'e encountered in the past with customers such as these their usual method is to just physically destroy the disk.

I'm not even sure formatting the disk with an SSD removes the data?

Are you a high valued target? If yes encrypt your drive.

 

[Paul123]

Are you a high valued target? If yes encrypt your drive.

Most banks and military sites probably do, but people with phones and iPads (which I assume use SSDs) probably dont consider that essentially they are leaving a trail of data on it

 

[BoraMurdar]

Every SSD manufacturer has it's secure erase utility. Nowadays with TRIM functionality, it's very hard to recover deleted files.