Andy Ful

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#1
What is a bug?

I am pretty sure that the most common word used in the context of the newly installed software, is the word 'bug' (bugs, buggy). Most people on MT seem to use it when they installed the new application that does not work properly on their system.

I think that calling such application buggy is often based on the false reasoning, but may be acceptable if the concrete issues are enumerated. Those issues can help other people to make a proper decision.

Why finding the application buggy can be often a false reasoning?
Because in many cases, the problem can have the other roots:
  • Kind of system instability caused by already installed software or by leftovers of uninstalled software (especially security applications). The new application is simply the last straw that breaks the camel's back.
  • Hidden conflicts between already installed software and the newly installed application.
  • Hidden conflicts between leftovers of already uninstalled software and the newly installed application.
Those issues can be pretty common on the computers of MT members, because many users adopt more than one security software on the computer and frequently change the security setup. They choose to blame the last installed software, and ignore the possibility that their system is overloaded and has stability issues.
Most bugs magically disappear if the application is installed on the fresh Windows system. Of course, if such application will conflict with several popular applications, then maybe it can be called buggy. That is why enumerating the issues are important. Calling any application as buggy without the sufficient explanation is close to trolling.

So, is possible that many 'bugs' are only in our minds?
See also:
Q&A - Which AV could you call buggy?
 
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RoboMan

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#2
I believe we name bug to thw two most common representation of problems with a software:

-malcoding (a software programmed in a wrong way or incomplete)
-incompatibility (since it's literally impossible to make code compatible 100% with all OS and PC brands/models)

If everybody used the same OS and build, and the same PC with the exact same characteristics, bugs would be minimized to malcoding only, pretty sure.
 

Lockdown

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#3
What is a bug?

I am pretty sure that the most common word used in the context of the newly installed software, is the word 'bug' (bugs, buggy). Most people on MT seem to use it when they installed the new application that does not work properly on their system.

I think that calling such application buggy is often based on the false reasoning, but may be acceptable if the concrete issues are enumerated. Those issues can help other people to make a proper decision.

Why finding the application buggy can be often a false reasoning?
Because in many cases, the problem can have the other roots:
  • Kind of system instability caused by already installed software or by leftovers of uninstalled software (especially security applications). The new application is simply the last straw that breaks the camel's back.
  • Hidden conflicts between already installed software and the newly installed application.
  • Hidden conflicts between leftovers of already uninstalled software and the newly installed application.
Those issues can be pretty common on the computers of MT members, because many users adopt more than one security software on the computer and frequently change the security setup. They choose to blame the last installed software, and ignore the possibility that their system is overloaded and has stability issues.
Most bugs magically disappear if the application is installed on the fresh Windows system. Of course, if such application will conflict with several popular applications, then maybe it can be called buggy. That is why enumerating the issues are important. Calling any application as buggy without the sufficient explanation is close to trolling.

So, is possible that many 'bugs' are only in our minds?
There are:

1. bugs
2. unexpected behaviors
3. conflicts with other programs (bugs also, that must be determined who that bug actually belongs to... one or both softs ?)
4. corruption(s)

A soft's reputation for bugginess and causing problems is established over years of cumulative user experience posted on the forums.
 
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#4
Thank you for this clarification. I have learned (the hard way) to fault my machine/s 99% of the time. The very few times a genuine bug was evident was via a beta software in the testing phase, versus an underlying conflict with another software and/or an un-updated hardware driver. I usually find it helpful when someone says: "running fine on here." When the Fall Creators build first came out, I like many had horrendous problems with freezing Start menu and taskbar. Turns out this was not a Windows "bug" per se but a required driver update to my Samsung NVM-e. So, just an example.

edited to expand and incl. the word "versus."
 
Last edited:

Lockdown

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#5
Thank you for this clarification. I have learned (the hard way) to fault my machine/s 99% of the time. The very few times a genuine bug was evident was via a beta software in the testing phase, or an underlying conflict with another software and/or an un-updated hardware driver. I usually find it helpful when someone says: "running fine on here."
"Just installed it. Been running for 15 minutes. No problems here."

That is the least helpful of all posts on the net.

Days or even weeks later that very person comes back and says: "Er, uhm, I have bugs."
 

Andy Ful

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#7
"Just installed it. Been running for 15 minutes. No problems here."
That is the least helpful of all posts on the net.
...
I do not agree. There is another one equally useless.
"Just installed it. Been running for 15 minutes. It is buggy.":giggle:

Probably not very helpful are also the off topic opinions: "The 'X' AV is known as buggy.", when the user asks for the help on the problem with the new 'X' version. Only a few people bother to help him, and even less can notice the possible problem with too many already installed security programs.:emoji_thinking:
 
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Andy Ful

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#9
They don't call them bugs anymore, they call them issues or known issues. Microsoft as an example with insider builds. In the future they will call them issue bounties, not bug bounties.
The problem for 3rd party applications is that if they cannot overcome the Windows bugs, then those applications are called buggy, anyway. :emoji_thinking:
But, this thread is not strictly about Windows bugs, but rather about ignoring the possible instabilities and incompatibilities introduced to the system by the users, and then blaming the last installed program as buggy.
 
Joined
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603
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Windows 7
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Emsisoft
#10
I think that it is a word that has become established in the world in a form different from the original meaning. For the time being, if you say 'it is a bug', you can end the conversation without asking for a solution to the problem. It is magical word.
 

AtlBo

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Qihoo 360
#13
Bug example:
Program: FortiClient 6 A-V
Bug: In Malware Protection, when setting "Block malicious websites", the settings do not keep until another setting in the same settings area is adjusted (and then changed back if it was already correct for use).

I noticed a small write to disk icon that is very faint and barely visible that displays for a very short time to indicate when the settings are auto saved. It appears next to the x-out for the Malware Protection settings (same place in all settings areas). It only appears after changing a setting other than the "Block malicious websites" setting, so they won't save if they are the only setting changed. Also, there is no manual way to save the settings of a program feature, nor does the x out of the page auto-save them...they occur automatically after a change (except with malicious website settings).

Libre Office still uses Bugzilla. I get a notice from time to time about updates concerning a few bugs I introduced back several years ago when I was using LO and following the development more closely.

I could see how someone might say, for example, that Comodo is not really buggy but rather a clumsy, underdeveloped platform (that will likely turn into something very good etc.). Then on the other hand some may point to specific bugs like dropping settings and say it is buggy software. The depth of the analysis does affect very much the value of information about bugginess. Yet, is heavy and clunky the same thing as buggy? I recall I think Bitdefender used to get that complaint sometimes, going back further Avast. The programs are inevitably referred to as buggy anyway at least by some.

I will use FortiClient for awhile before I submit a bug. This is one that is happening for me on W7 pro and on multiple PCs.
 
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oldschool

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Cylance
#15
MS Edge has this bug: cursor randomly jumps to different line while typing. This doesn't happen often, but is frustrating especially because it is an unexpected behavior. I consider this a bug since it has to be unintended (mal)function. But according to @BryanB's definition, I do not consider Edge "buggy".