Why would I ever need an Antivirus?
- Thread starter MrXidus
- Start date
- Apr 17, 2011
- 2,503
umbrapolaris said:MrXidus said:
no, this is knowledge
yes, common sense is viable for people who has a bit of knowledge (for example, how to avoid malwares), most beginners cant use common sense because they ignore all about malwares vectors.
nope
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I respect your opinion.
win7holic said:wow
I need to change my sigs also
It's your signature do as you please.
Hungry Man
New Member
- Jul 21, 2011
- 669
Common sense is anti-security. It's nice but it's superfluous. Common sense can't protect you from exploits and it can't even really protect you from socially engineered malware.
Antiviruses are not my product of choice but they do do one thing very well - provide definitive answers. They are a blacklist. If something is on the blacklist you don't have to think "Hm, is it good or bad?" it tells you.
All your brain is doing is using its own version of heuristics. That's all common sense is. Granted your brain is far more complex with algorithms beyond anything we can create right now.
You get lots of false positives with common sense and there's no plan b. Something is either trusted by you or untrusted. You either download it/ run it or you don't.
It's just poor security. Security should literally never ever require user input let alone require the user to make ALL of the decisions.
Will common sense work? Sure, for some. But it offers no real protection. In the event of an actual attack the user is not always given a decision and even when they are they're often going to make the wrong one, educated or not.
Feel free to use common sense but don't mistake it for true security.
My 2 cents.
Antiviruses are not my product of choice but they do do one thing very well - provide definitive answers. They are a blacklist. If something is on the blacklist you don't have to think "Hm, is it good or bad?" it tells you.
All your brain is doing is using its own version of heuristics. That's all common sense is. Granted your brain is far more complex with algorithms beyond anything we can create right now.
You get lots of false positives with common sense and there's no plan b. Something is either trusted by you or untrusted. You either download it/ run it or you don't.
It's just poor security. Security should literally never ever require user input let alone require the user to make ALL of the decisions.
Will common sense work? Sure, for some. But it offers no real protection. In the event of an actual attack the user is not always given a decision and even when they are they're often going to make the wrong one, educated or not.
Feel free to use common sense but don't mistake it for true security.
My 2 cents.
- Apr 19, 2011
- 1,264
A great insight from Hungry Man. I also do believe that even if advanced users doesn't use any real time protection, They are still gonna use On-Demand Scanners so that doesn't have Common Sense involved. Advanced users are still using Exploit Mitigation techniques or EMET and using a Firewall so that's not pure Common Sense, Same goes for using any protection method such as using Security browser addons and using the VT Uploader or a similar service. People cannot completely rely on Common Sense because it's insufficient and probably, Too restrictive.
Hungry Man
New Member
- Jul 21, 2011
- 669
If you're using common sense... I hate to break it to you but you're not relying on purely common sense.
I'm assuming this is a case where someone is using only common sense.
Firewall comes by default so leaving it on and saying you're using purely common sense wouldn't be wrong. Using EMET would be.
Anyways, the point I was making is that security should never require user interaction let alone rest solely on the user.
EDIT: "You" in the existential "One" sense. Not calling any individuals out lol
I'm assuming this is a case where someone is using only common sense.
Firewall comes by default so leaving it on and saying you're using purely common sense wouldn't be wrong. Using EMET would be.
Anyways, the point I was making is that security should never require user interaction let alone rest solely on the user.
EDIT: "You" in the existential "One" sense. Not calling any individuals out lol
Hungry Man
New Member
- Jul 21, 2011
- 669
Nothing in the world is invincible - true, but that doesn't mean we can't come damn close.
To use vague and horrible terms all any OS really needs is sandboxing (horrible vague term one) and heuristics (and horrible vague term two!)
We know heuristics can be effective. We see this in spam filters, which use learning algorithms that can even be user-specific. I never get spam on GMail. It's very effective.
The problem with heuristics for malware is that... malware isn't all that different than regular software! My adobe flash installer probably uses as many if not more malicious markers than most malicious files!
But heuristics is awesome at certain things. When the signatures are things like "word viagra used 50 times" that gets marked as spam.
That's what heuristics should be for. Not as a catch-all, trying to stop every piece of malware in existence with hugely convoluted signatures... but with a simple task to stop specific malware.
And as for exploits? Extend the Windows integrity system. Currently it's a bit broken, though it's really amazing when utilized properly by software developers. Chrome and IE9 are proof of this.
The integrity sandboxing should be expanded so that each folder and application has its own read and write restrictions. Currently it's folder groups that have WRITE restrictions but no read restrictions. A good start but not powerful enough.
Things like ASLR, DEP, and SEHOP are nice but they're a stopgap, a bandaid over a gunshot. I wouldn't even say common sense is as useful as those three things.
But that's going a bit off topic >_> I should probably sleep lol
edit: And to be clear I do love ASLR, DEP, and SEHOP. Super cool ideas. Sleeping for real now >_> lol
To use vague and horrible terms all any OS really needs is sandboxing (horrible vague term one) and heuristics (and horrible vague term two!)
We know heuristics can be effective. We see this in spam filters, which use learning algorithms that can even be user-specific. I never get spam on GMail. It's very effective.
The problem with heuristics for malware is that... malware isn't all that different than regular software! My adobe flash installer probably uses as many if not more malicious markers than most malicious files!
But heuristics is awesome at certain things. When the signatures are things like "word viagra used 50 times" that gets marked as spam.
That's what heuristics should be for. Not as a catch-all, trying to stop every piece of malware in existence with hugely convoluted signatures... but with a simple task to stop specific malware.
And as for exploits? Extend the Windows integrity system. Currently it's a bit broken, though it's really amazing when utilized properly by software developers. Chrome and IE9 are proof of this.
The integrity sandboxing should be expanded so that each folder and application has its own read and write restrictions. Currently it's folder groups that have WRITE restrictions but no read restrictions. A good start but not powerful enough.
Things like ASLR, DEP, and SEHOP are nice but they're a stopgap, a bandaid over a gunshot. I wouldn't even say common sense is as useful as those three things.
But that's going a bit off topic >_> I should probably sleep lol
edit: And to be clear I do love ASLR, DEP, and SEHOP. Super cool ideas. Sleeping for real now >_> lol
- Apr 17, 2011
- 2,503
Thanks to Hungry for pointing out the very obvious.
Posting such straight forward replies in a humor thread.
If anyone had viewed my config thread you know I'm not relying solely on common sense.
Who is forgetting the most important factor behind common sense? The engine that runs it is called Knowledge.
If the user lacks it. Pass them an Antivirus product. If one has enough knowledge more than another, Give them an advanced HIPS/Firewall based product.
The decisions can be made automatically by the Antivirus, Or the user can use hes knowledge, hes... common sense to either click Allow or Deny on HIP/Firewall alert.
From what I can see HungryMan has an extremely advanced Knowledge engine. Hes common sense must be doing him great.
The signature is there as a joke and not in all seriousness. Lets not forget the sarcasm function we all have.. right? Unless you un-installed that.
I am off to go eat dinner and feed my brain, the hardware behind running the Knowledge engine.
I have nothing more to say in this thread since its indeed close to a My Opinion against Your Opinion based topic.
Cheers I hope all of you have had a wonderful day.
He must be crazy or something.
- Aug 23, 2011
- 2,291
- Aug 23, 2011
- 2,291
MrXidus, i know you enough to know that you did this thread more as a joke, i just point out, that i heard many people lately, keep saying common sense is the best protection...blablabla...with commom sense i need nothing...blablabla.
if it was true i will say nothing but IMO it was not.
P.S: i can joke in a very serious thread, but it is more amusing to turn a humor thread into something really serious , i think i did well
if it was true i will say nothing but IMO it was not.
P.S: i can joke in a very serious thread, but it is more amusing to turn a humor thread into something really serious , i think i did well
I use the great old combination of common sense and good security.
Let me tell you all a little story of the person down the road from me, that was making fun of me, saying i run too much security on my system.. The day after they made this comment, they were at my door with a very infected computer, one that was able to access one of their online accounts and mass message all their friends... lol
Needless to say, they apologized for making fun of me, while asking for my help to fix it. They now believe that they can not have too much security.
Let me tell you all a little story of the person down the road from me, that was making fun of me, saying i run too much security on my system.. The day after they made this comment, they were at my door with a very infected computer, one that was able to access one of their online accounts and mass message all their friends... lol
Needless to say, they apologized for making fun of me, while asking for my help to fix it. They now believe that they can not have too much security.
- Aug 23, 2011
- 2,291
Hungry Man
New Member
- Jul 21, 2011
- 669
To be clear... I found the sig/ little advertisement very funny =p
Plus this is in the humor section lol I was just super tired last night so I felt like ranting >_>
Plus this is in the humor section lol I was just super tired last night so I felt like ranting >_>
