McLovin

Level 73
Verified
Trusted
Malware Hunter
Microsoft has equipped the new Windows 8 operating system with an upgraded version of Windows Defender, a full-featured security product that inherits many of the features previously available in Security Essentials.



The application comes pre-installed on all Windows 8 versions and cannot be uninstalled, but the app is automatically disabled once the user deploys another security software.

And even though it’s supposed to help protect a Windows 8 workstation, Mark Austin, chief technology officer of Windows security software firm Avecto, told IT Pro that Windows Defender might actually give users a false sense of security.

“Although [it] is a positive step in some respects, it has the danger of giving organisations a false sense of security, as it shouldn’t be relied upon to protect against malware threats,” he said. “The nature of malware attacks has changed and more sophisticated security technology and proactive measures are required to protect against these threats.”

Basically, the security researcher claims that users are recommended to install their very own security product, as integrated software may be unable to cope with certain attacks.

“It is important to always take a defence-in-depth strategy to security, and to not rely solely on the built-in features of the operating system,” Austin continued.

Aryeh Goretsky, researcher at antivirus software firm ESET, said in October that Windows Defender might actually be disabled on plenty of new Windows 8 computers, as computer manufacturers were deploying trial versions of third-party security software.

Goretsky explained that Windows Defender also lacks some advanced security features available in third-party products, so installing such an application may be a smart choice after all.

“Windows Defender does not contain many of the advanced features and functions of paid-for solutions, such as a high level of granularity for threat detection, task scheduling, centralized management and reporting and so forth. As with other free anti-malware programs, support options for Windows Defender are limited,” the security researcher explained.

Source
 

Littlebits

Retired Staff
Just another article by a paid only antivirus vendor trying to increase their sales. When a vendor that offers free products to users writes an article then I might pay more attention to it. All antivirus give users a false sense of security if they depend on them alone without trying to learn how to avoid malware. Windows Defender is an excellent improvement in security since most users don't keep their paid subscription updated resulting in severely infected systems. It might not be the best but could anyone say what is the best for novice users who are not willing to learn how to protect their systems?

Thanks.:D
 

malbky

New Member
Still MSE is better. Windows defender lacks usability like no right click scan. Also it lacks some advanced settings of MSE.
 

McLovin

Level 73
Verified
Trusted
Malware Hunter
malbky said:
Still MSE is better. Windows defender lacks usability like no right click scan. Also it lacks some advanced settings of MSE.
Windows Defender is practically MSE in Windows 8? So to me their the same...
 

3link9

Level 5
Verified
malbky said:
Still MSE is better. Windows defender lacks usability like no right click scan. Also it lacks some advanced settings of MSE.
What are you talking about?
Windows defender for Windows 8 is the exact same thing as MSE just with a different name.
As for right click scans, I'm not sure but I think you can.

Windows Defender for Windows 8 is not the same as the windows defender for XP, Vista, and 7.

@Littlebits,
Coming from someone from a paid vendor or not,
They both do make great points. Malware nowadays you need more than a simple AV to protect you.
MSE/Defender by its own is not enough as it only offers signature protection.
Nowadays you need Web blocking, sandbox's, heuristics, etc.
MSE has poor detections with no prevention features, its not even good for Novice users who will just click any link and not know dangers of some of the programs they install. The only AV I would use for Novice users is Avast Free.
Everyone says that MSE is the best for novice/beginners when its not, Like I said above, They are not smart enough to know to watch what links they click or install random software because it gives them "free" things. My cousins and friends are prime examples.
 
D

Deleted member 178

MSE is not the best for beginners but just enough (for educated users)
 

Littlebits

Retired Staff
3link9 said:
malbky said:
Still MSE is better. Windows defender lacks usability like no right click scan. Also it lacks some advanced settings of MSE.
What are you talking about?
Windows defender for Windows 8 is the exact same thing as MSE just with a different name.
As for right click scans, I'm not sure but I think you can.

Windows Defender for Windows 8 is not the same as the windows defender for XP, Vista, and 7.

@Littlebits,
Coming from someone from a paid vendor or not,
They both do make great points. Malware nowadays you need more than a simple AV to protect you.
MSE/Defender by its own is not enough as it only offers signature protection.
Nowadays you need Web blocking, sandbox's, heuristics, etc.
MSE has poor detections with no prevention features, its not even good for Novice users who will just click any link and not know dangers of some of the programs they install. The only AV I would use for Novice users is Avast Free.
Everyone says that MSE is the best for novice/beginners when its not, Like I said above, They are not smart enough to know to watch what links they click or install random software because it gives them "free" things. My cousins and friends are prime examples.
Most users don't even care if they even have an antivirus that is kept updated, they will go buy games and other software before even thinking about security. Windows Defender pre-installed and configured will provide some protection for these users because most will never make an effort to install another antivirus or security software. Will it offer the best protection? of coarse the answer is no, but considering the facts it will already be setup to provide some protection that they would never get on their own. Users who are concerned about security will look for better options available. It doesn't make a difference what security setup you use, if you don't try to learn how to avoid malware, nothing will protect you. I'm so tired of all of these reports on how bad the detection rate is on Windows Defender/ MSE. Users who care about security can get by just fine without any infections with it. The user is responsible for their actions, those who don't care will infect their system no matter what kind of security setup they use. I will agree that Windows Defender/MSE doesn't provide the same protection as Avast and others.
But for most users, even a paid solution will fail to protect them if they don't make a effort on their part.

The bottom line is most users really don't care about security until they get an infection that blocks something they want to do. Otherwise if the infections allow the user to do their normal routine, they could care less about their system being infected.

Thanks.:D
 
I

illumination

"Windows Defender Fails to Make Windows 8 Completely Secure – Expert" <--- Well Duh!

That was my technical input on this topic ;)
 

Littlebits

Retired Staff
thewolfsmith72 said:
"Windows Defender Fails to Make Windows 8 Completely Secure – Expert" <--- Well Duh!

That was my technical input on this topic ;)
The topic should be changed to

"All security products Fails to Make Windows 8 Completely Secure"

Completely means 100% secure, does anyone know of a product that can do this and still be novice user friendly?

Thanks.:D
 

Exterminator

Community Manager
Verified
Staff member
Is anything actually really secure? If somebody wants to get into something bad enough they are going to find a way.Just look at the long list of those that have been hacked.I think windows 8 is more secure but even Microsoft suggests using 3rd party Av protection.I have to agree with Littlebits in that I don't take too much stock in all these articles on AV Software because I do think many are biased.I know if I owned a Paid Av software company I am going to say that the free products are inadequate and mine is better.Free versus Paid has been the cause of many arguments for as long as I can remember. I would rather try it myself or take the educated advice of people like here for instance.But Littlebits makes a valid point in that most buy a PC with trial AV installed and maybe buy a 1 year license and then never bother to update it again.So something is better than nothing.There are many who cant afford the price of paid AV software and those casual users who just dont have the time to spend educating themselves on Protecting themselves from cyber Armageddon.Personally I am not formally educated in Computing and have managed to teach myself but I have spent a lot of time learning and as most of you know it is a never ending learning process.So after all my rambling,I guess I am trying to say that with windows 8 the security is much better and offers some protection.Would I use it by itself,No but I think it offers the casual home user a better level of protection than in previous years.
 
I

illumination

Littlebits said:
thewolfsmith72 said:
"Windows Defender Fails to Make Windows 8 Completely Secure – Expert" <--- Well Duh!

That was my technical input on this topic ;)
The topic should be changed to

"All security products Fails to Make Windows 8 Completely Secure"

Completely means 100% secure, does anyone know of a product that can do this and still be novice user friendly?

Thanks.:D
Precisely What i was trying to communicate with my little "jab" at the topic.
 

Payback

New Member
Littlebits said:
Just another article by a paid only antivirus vendor trying to increase their sales. When a vendor that offers free products to users writes an article then I might pay more attention to it. All antivirus give users a false sense of security if they depend on them alone without trying to learn how to avoid malware. Windows Defender is an excellent improvement in security since most users don't keep their paid subscription updated resulting in severely infected systems. It might not be the best but could anyone say what is the best for novice users who are not willing to learn how to protect their systems?

Thanks.:D
I am not against Windows Defender (some users might think I am cause of my post)...but :

This article...is actually true,yeah I agree with you that every IS can give false-positives. But,WD forgot about HIPS,firewall (it does not have it,right?,if it have,does it have advanced mods like creating rules or changing mods?),Anti-Stealth etc. While Eset or other vendors provide it.

Thank you,(;
 

Nikos751

Level 17
Verified
Let's create a scenario: My PC is infected with a zeroaccess Trojan. I checked removal instructions on several sites including a Symantec-made guide for it. As I see, this Trojan replaces system driver/s so except from just removing malicious files, processes etc, a further work is required to have a clean system. So, Symantec and experts in forums suggest using additional tools to do the repair of system files. After seeing all these I checked MS guide here http://www.microsoft.com/security/portal/threat/encyclopedia/Entry.aspx?Name=Win32%2fSirefef . As you can see in last words it says:
"Sirefef makes lasting changes to your computer’s security settings that may need to be repaired. Sirefef stops and deletes a number of different security-related services on your computer. When using Microsoft security solutions to clean a Sirefef infection, these services will be restored to the Windows default installation settings.

The following Microsoft Fixits can be used for additional repair and configuration:
•Windows Firewall Repair Fixit
•Windows Security Settings Fixit "

From this, I understand that the procedure to remove the Trojan completely using MS tools is much simpler and direct than getting lost in guides and tools like Combofix, OTL etc.
I assume the same applies to a variety of painful threats that need advanced disinfection techniques. All this makes me believe that Windows Defender/MSE is a really good product that can correctly handle detected infections on the PC and not do half-work most of the times. Of course there are cases where MSE for example cannot remove a threat, but the same can happen with any other mainstream AV product.
What's your opinion on this?
 

Nikos751

Level 17
Verified
Umbra Corp. said:
Nikos751 said:
What's your opinion on this?
1st rule: don't be infected
You 're absolutely right xD Ι talk in general as most people do not have the knowledge to have a system that it's almost impossible to infect or they don't want to bloat the PC with extra addons in browsers for example.
 

jamescv7

Level 61
Verified
Trusted
I will add beside on the first rule ;).

Don't be fool and use common sense at all.

AV's are just managed to protect but not to compete with others for the best perfomance as this could force on making product worse than better.
 

DrBeenGolfing

New Member
Biggest security threat - the dude/dudette holding the mouse.
If my AV doesn't slow my experience down, doesn't have the Peter and the Wolf syndrome, doesn't corrupt any other program, and I never get an infection, that's the AV I'll stick with.
 

Jack

Administrator
Verified
Staff member
Windows Defender Fails to Make Windows 8 Completely Secure.... Stop the press!!!
Do the other security developers know that the cyber world has evolved, and unlike in 2002 when only a few daily threats were released, these days a basic antivirus engine can only stop 85% of the new released threats?
Maybe they should add additional layers of protection to properly secure Windows....Like: Behavior Blocker, Auto-Sandbox, HIPS, File and Application Reputation, Site Advisor .....

Well, all I can say is that this Expert, is a real expert. Kudos to him for showing us the truth! I do hope that he didn't take to much time studying this, as we could have explained him this in 10 seconds. :shy:

Littlebits said:
Just another article by a paid only antivirus vendor trying to increase their sales.
Yuuuuup. ;)