Serious Discussion Antivirus vs. Common Sense — What Really Keeps You Safe in 2025?

[ForgottenSeer 94738]

An AV program is necessary, but a little common sense certainly doesn't hurt either.

 

[annaegorov]

An AV program is necessary, but a little common sense certainly doesn't hurt either.

True; and I didn't mean to imply, common sense is useless, nor unwarranted.

Although I sure seem to see a lot of people whose deficit of it seems more than apparent.

 

[brambedkar59]

A seatbelt (AV) won't protect the driver 100% of the time in a crash (malware infection), but does that mean we should stop wearing seatbelts? Similarly a bad driver (bad surfing/downloading habits) will have a higher chance of being in the crash compared to a relatively safe driver (good surfing/downloading habits).

I have not used AV since XP, except for testing, and I never got infected. Malware does not magically infect PC, it all involves scripts and other related stuff.
11 and modern browsers are much safer than they were decades ago, it is really hard to get infected, people generally do it by themselves by running files.
And no, it does not require much skill, my happy to click on everything mom was malware free and I only used the basic setup like a safe DNS and UAC.

You are just built different.

Buying antivirus software in 2025 is literally throwing money down the drain. Windows Defender is more than good for everyone, and if you want to increase your protection, you can always opt to use DNS with malware and phishing protection and ad blocker in the browser. I surf everywhere, even pirate sites and the last time my PC was infected I was in elementary school.

Have you noticed how every single antivirus company, after release of Defender, started offering VPN, password manager, various optimizers and cleaners? Yeah. The whole purpose of these 3rd party antivirus software is to sell you something you don't need and to scare you into buying it. Take Android antivirus apps for example; these apps are everything with antivirus part being barely 1% of the app capability.

The way I see it, security wise Defender is up there but 3rd party AVs provide comfort features, sometimes better performance, more options, etc.

Edit: Added quotes

 

[ForgottenSeer 123960]

The phrase 'common sense' might not be the best fit here. Staying safe online often depends on being informed and educated about potential risks, which is fundamentally different from a shared, intuitive understanding.

 

[ForgottenSeer 114717]

Most users are not power users and do not know about IT security processes and support. They don't posses the knowledge nor the inclination. Ergo they are better off with an internet security suite that provides free support. Those users are best served by a fully automated security solution as opposed to a manual one or anything that has to be configured. Anything requiring non-power users to make decisions is apt to fail when the users do not know what to do or they do everything except what they should.

Security software is a problematic, flawed band aid slapped onto systems as a "fix" for user ignorance and proclivities.

Microsoft Defender is fine as long as the end user never needs support. Microsoft support is $75 per support ticket.

In this era, people are device/technology savvy yet they remain unknowledgeable, under-skilled, and disinclined to learn to the extent that they can be safe. And I'm talking about highly educated people such as professors, the average college graduate, and executives.

Test society on security en masse, and the overall results will be "FAIL." That's a real problem because of the internetworking of virtually all devices. Treating one user's devices in isolation from all others is dinosaur thinking and behavior.

Allowing users unfettered, un-regulated freedom to do virtually anything that they want to do on their systems is also another epic global failure.

 

[Studynxx]

I voted that antivirus is overrated. I don't believe that anyone should ditch their antivirus. However, in my experience, the most important step to avoid getting infected, is to be very careful about what files you open. No antivirus provides 100% protection, so you shouldn't just blindly trust an antivirus to keep you protected. If you're not click happy, you will greatly reduce the chances of getting infected. So my advice is not to be click happy and to also use a good antivirus.

True, however antivirus that utilize whitelisting logic (Kaspersky, Microsoft's App Locker, Device Guard, etc) really do save you from a world of hurt far as malware goes. Default-deny is the way to live digitally. For example, what if I'm really tired, sleep-deprived, can't concentrate, accidentally download a file I think I wanted to download but instead it's a malware-ridden fake one (for example, one could swap out "I" for "l", they appear the exact same) and run it? I'm done for. But what if my security solution utilizes whitelisting defense logic? Non-signed, non-approved code couldn't ever do anything on my system (everything that's like this is automatically set to "High Restricted" by Kaspersky on my devices)

 

[IceMan7]

This security, whether with or without AV, is like a professional driver. They can drive for years without an accident and decide there's no point in wearing a seatbelt if nothing has ever happened to them. But even a moment's inattention is enough to kill them because they weren't wearing a seatbelt at the time.

I consider myself a conscious user. I haven't had a virus on my computer in years. But despite this, I use AV. Because I can have a virus, Trojan, or keylogger on my computer without even realizing it. And we don't scan the system every day, even with second-opinion tools like NPE.

And AV in today's age, where even a basic laptop has 16GB of RAM, a fast processor, etc., isn't some system-intensive software. The browser consumes more resources when browsing the internet or using YouTube (especially with Ublock).

BTW, what engine does NPE (Norton Power Eraser) use now? Is it still Norton's? Or does it run on Avast's engine?

 

[Trident]

BTW, what engine does NPE (Norton Power Eraser) use now? Is it still Norton's? Or does it run on Avast's engine?

Power Eraser doesn’t use engines, it uses heuristics that are bult-in to the main executable. These heuristics perform look-up of hashes (detecting known malware), metadata and very aggressively target files with low or no reputation. It also uses correlational heuristics to detect malware secondary components.

Based on the connections it establishes, it looks like the lookups are now performed via the Avast network.

The most important is highlighted in Bold as you are a man with very little time (I was told).

 

[annaegorov]

Imagine this fake scenario: Your life is on the line, someone has challenged you, and if you make the wrong decision it's over. You lose everything. Money, files. information, it's all gone.

They say make a choice right now. You can keep defender or go with Kaspersky/Bitdefender/Norton/McAfee/ .......... Etc.

Are you REALLY going to tell me after 30+ years of complaining about Windows (3.1 / 95 / 98 / Vista / XP / 7 / 8 / 10 / and 11), considering all the blue screens, design flaws, fixes, and total mess ups, that you will choose MSD ?

I just want the truth, and don't tell me "You can't handle the truth"...

 

[ForgottenSeer 123960]

Imagine this fake scenario: Your life is on the line, someone has challenged you, and if you make the wrong decision it's over. You lose everything. Money, files. information, it's all gone.

They say make a choice right now. You can keep defender or go with Kaspersky/Bitdefender/Norton/McAfee/ .......... Etc.

Are you REALLY going to tell me after 30+ years of complaining about Windows (3.1 / 95 / 98 / Vista / XP / 7 / 8 / 10 / and 11), considering all the blue screens, design flaws, fixes, and total mess ups, that you will choose MSD ?

I just want the truth, and don't tell me "You can't handle the truth"...

I wouldn't place complete trust in any single solution. It's crucial to have contingencies in place and to back up your system frequently to protect against both the issues you mentioned and hardware failure. In the digital world, nothing is guaranteed, so it's best to cover all your bases.

 

[annaegorov]

I wouldn't place complete trust in any single solution. It's crucial to have contingencies in place and to back up your system frequently to protect against both the issues you mentioned and hardware failure. In the digital world, nothing is guaranteed, so it's best to cover all your bases.

I agree, I'm just pointing out that what people say, isn't always what they mean if push came to shove.

AV companies have one single item on their plate. They specialize in that one thing.

Microsoft does not specialize on defender, in fact many question, what exactly Microsoft does specialize on.

 

[ForgottenSeer 123960]

I agree, I'm just pointing out that what people say, isn't always what they mean if push came to shove.

AV companies have one single item on their plate. They specialize in that one thing.

Microsoft does not specialize on defender, in fact many question, what exactly Microsoft does specialize on.

Ever wonder why tools like @Andy Ful work so well? It's not that Windows lacks capable security features, it's that Microsoft's default settings prioritize a balance of security and usability for the general public. These third-party tools simply reconfigure those powerful, built-in Windows tools to a higher level of security.

 

[stonjean633]

Ever wonder why tools like @Andy Ful work so well? It's not that Windows lacks capable security features, it's that Microsoft's default settings prioritize a balance of security and usability for the general public. These third-party tools simply reconfigure those powerful, built-in Windows tools to a higher level of security.

In the context of system design, it's:
Security over Usability
Balance
Usability over Security

For the context of Networking, it's:
Security over Connectivity
Balance
Connectivity over Security

 

[ForgottenSeer 114717]

Putting aside what's possible, let's focus on what's real. How many of us have been infected in the last year, unintentionally? The fact that it's likely a small number, if not zero, is my point about being well-informed. While there are no guarantees in life, you can greatly reduce your risk of a severe car crash by simply wearing your seatbelt and driving with caution.

I am astounded by how many people are unsafe. They ain't stupid. They ain't dumb. They might be ignorant, lack knowledge, or just not have the inclination to logically think things through carefully. They might be negligent, even if they know better. They might not be able to control themselves. However, their decisions and actions suggest to others "I'm not a person you want to ever give access to any digital device that you own."

Everybody should run... and there are way more people in these categories than people suspect. They're definitely not MT members.

 

[Trident]

They're definitely not MT members.

That's debatable...

 

[ForgottenSeer 114717]

That's debatable...

Fringe members? Spectators?

Quite a few admissions here of "I am a high risk user."

 

[ForgottenSeer 114717]

Insecure users should use Rasputia OS.

"Now you listen here. I manage your IT security, what you think, and what you do. You do what I say. How you doin'?"

 

[Trident]

Insecure users should use Rasputia OS.

There are quite a few ecosystems that can be compared to Rasputia OS.

These ecosystems are not amazing for users that want to "use stuff".

 

[monkeylove]

Ever wonder why tools like @Andy Ful work so well? It's not that Windows lacks capable security features, it's that Microsoft's default settings prioritize a balance of security and usability for the general public. These third-party tools simply reconfigure those powerful, built-in Windows tools to a higher level of security.

I think there's a good reason why the company makes them default settings.

 

[franz]

Has anyone tried PIA Antivirus? Does anyone know where this comes from, whether it's PIA's own or purchased from someone else?