Serious Discussion Here's why you should change to Linux - securing Windows is too much work

[Andy Ful]

Some go so overkill the system can barely boot...

I think that many MT members survived the "overkill period" in their lives. I had such a setup 15 years ago.

 

[cartaphilus]

So let me jump into this discussion with my years of knowledge and wisdom as a toddler:

In simple terms the relationship between Linux and the user vs the relationship between Windows and the user can be compared to:

1) Windows and the User: Typical marriage with it's ups and downs; after the honeymoon period of a flashy new UI and programs, the user eventually settles to an everyday battlerhytm of updating windows security which is done automatically, browsing the web, installing a new software if necessary, updating drivers when necessary and performing periodic scans of the system. On a rare occasion a fight breaks out, the severity of the fight is anywhere from just a scuffle (a PUP) to a very civil exchange of "F U...NO YOU FU!" followed by slamming of the doors and one of you driving away for a few hours to cooldown but then eventually return home and after some apologies resume how things were (re-imaging the system, wasting hours to make it work again).

2) Linux and the User: Is a form of a trauma bonding relationship with a person suffering form a Borderline Personality Disorder, you know the one, the one where the other person is crazy and exciting and you feel alive meanwhile it's very exhausting since everything eventually takes a LOT of work to keep the relationship going. Many times when problems do arise you have to spend hours and hours validating their feelings in order for them to talk to you again (finding new packages, searching forums for syntax for ways to install them if it goes wrong). Eventually, you get tired of that relationship and say "Screw it! I am Leaving!" but but after few weeks to months you start remembering how exciting that relationship was. How when it was great it was GREAT! but when it sucked it SUCKED!. So you go back to your old ex and attempt to give it another try. Rinse and repeat.

 

[cartaphilus]

nah, take a look at Zorin 17.1, some other distros may be as easy to migrate to too.

On that note with the onset of the Proton Wrapper (based on WINE) which distro would be best for a gamer?

 

[Andy Ful]

But, It is better to have a typical marriage and Linux, than a BPD marriage and Windows.

 

[cartaphilus]

al.

Although every single time Microsoft has attempted to improve user security, there's that faction of the online user mob that rails against Microsoft and accuses it of over-reach and infringing upon "user rights." Whiskey Tango Foxtrot. "User rights? Oh you mean the right to download anything and execute it regardless of the fact that if you did that and it was malicious then that infection would spread from your system to a whole bunch of others? Oh I see, you're one of those selfish, self-centered 'users want to use stuff' types. You're angry about that 'User Right.'"

Yeap just look at Windows-S. Windows-S functions like a MAC environment and it's as secure and even more so than a MAC. You are limited to the Windows Store the same way a user is limited to a MAC store....but nooooo....people have a double standard! They want the security, ease of use of a MAC with the power user functionality of Linux. So I hate the double standard that people have between MAC and Windows. How can MAC limit the user to their walled garden environment and everyone is hunky dory about it? But when Windows does it with Windows-S then people cry havoc and let loose the dogs of war?

 

[cartaphilus]

Awareness, training, and education are far more effective than software.

Security is not software. It is a process.

These are unpopular facts on a forum where most members are focused on security software. What they are failing to realize is that the best that technology has been able to provide them is software and a few bits of hardware. Then there are those now beating the drums of "next gen AI" and other marketing gimmicks. The current state of AI is not capable of keeping users safe without those users doing most things securely. Going back to "Security is not software. It is a process."

This really upsets one person in particular here at MT.

The next gen AI will solve the security problem by removing the user.

 

[oldschool]

a BPD marriage

What's that?

 

[cartaphilus]

What's that?

marriage to a person with a borderline personality disorder. It is very very tasking. Think of it as marriage to a narcissist lite version.


ABANDON ALL HOPE YE WHO VENTURE HERE

1. Lack of accountability. Someone always made them do it, triggered them, screwed them and deserved it, etc.

2. Lack of empathy - you come to them with a problem and by the end of it, you find yourself apologizing.

3. They have double standards. There are things you are expected to do that they won’t do or things you can’t do, but they are allowed to.

4. It isn’t safe for you to express your feelings. You find yourself walking on eggshells, not sure what the “right” thing to say is. You stopped trying to express yourself and now just try to find the right answer to keep the peace.

5. They suffer emotional dysregulation - they go hot and cold quickly, minor errors are perceived as massive slights or attacks or personal affronts.

6. Their relationship with their family is strained and they don’t have close long term friends. The friends they do have, they either talk about like they are angels or demons.

7. Control - you don’t get much of a choice on what show to watch, what music to listen to, what you are allowed or not allowed to say, your clothing or hair is questioned, your decisions are wrong, they take your phone and look through it, etc.

8. The goal posts are moving constantly. You do something and they tell you it was the wrong thing to do and you should have done the other thing. You do the other thing and they yell at you and call you stupid for doing that because why would you ever think to do it (even though they told you to do it). This is gaslighting - you never know what the right answer is because there is never a right answer…. Except….

9. They offer you crumbs of support and praise just as you are thinking of leaving. They tell you they have never loved anyone like they love you and no one could love you like they do. Or they cry about how they don’t deserve you. You are left confused - why can’t they say this all the time. The reality is, you have been conditioned to accept these crumbs and think it is a loaf of bread. It is not.

They may do all of these or some of these, but if they do them, they are toxic and you need to run. Why? Because of how these things impact a person.

1. Your self esteem is harmed. You start questioning if you are a good person. You start to question if you are provoking them. You wonder why you can’t do the “simple” things they ask for and think that you are hard, if not impossible, to love.
2. Ypu lose your sense of self. You have continually moved your boundaries back trying to keep your partner happy that you don’t even know where your boundaries are. You have lost a sense of your likes and dislikes. You aren’t sure which friends or family members you trust.
3. You suffer from anxiety and/or depression. Ignoring your own personal needs at the expense of a loved one erodes your reserves and leaves you a shell of yourself.
4. Ypu develop physical symptoms - autoimmune diseases, inflammation, muscle problems, weight gain or loss, headaches, stomach issues, etc. The constant assault on your mind, heart and soul causes cortisol problems and adrenal fatigue.
5. Ypu are afraid to leave. You worry they might hurt themselves or you. You worry if you can survive without them or if they can survive without you. You are immobilized by fear, guilt and shame.

 

[oldschool]

marriage to a person with a borderline personality disorder. It is very very tasking. Think of it as marriage to a narcissist lite version.

Oh, I didn't know there was such a technical name for a personality such as mine!

 

[bazang]

Yeap just look at Windows-S. Windows-S functions like a MAC environment and it's as secure and even more so than a MAC. You are limited to the Windows Store the same way a user is limited to a MAC store....but nooooo....people have a double standard! They want the security, ease of use of a MAC with the power user functionality of Linux. So I hate the double standard that people have between MAC and Windows. How can MAC limit the user to their walled garden environment and everyone is hunky dory about it? But when Windows does it with Windows-S then people cry havoc and let loose the dogs of war?

There's a lot of different reasons why the malware problem is at it is. I do not want to get into a debate by the whole "Users Want to Use Stuff" is an obsolete model that is completely irrational given the current state of affairs. That is only the tip of the iceberg. Corporations get away with mind boggling negligence under current regulations and they just pass those costs onto you, the consumer, and to taxpayers.

For every $1 loss due a breach, society is going to pay back $1.25 to $2.00+ in aggregate through all the various "channels" such as passing the expense onto consumers with a price increase. This security and economic model is more than unsustainable. It is insane.

 

[bazang]

The next gen AI will solve the security problem by removing the user.

Hustlers are programming AI to do jobs and selling their "services" online as if they are real people. It's sort of a variation on the post-2020 "I have 3 IT jobs, each paying $200,000. I am 23 and will retire in 5 years because I am parlaying my salary into a crypto and real estate development empire."

 

[Gangelo]

So let me jump into this discussion with my years of knowledge and wisdom as a toddler:

In simple terms the relationship between Linux and the user vs the relationship between Windows and the user can be compared to:

1) Windows and the User: Typical marriage with it's ups and downs; after the honeymoon period of a flashy new UI and programs, the user eventually settles to an everyday battlerhytm of updating windows security which is done automatically, browsing the web, installing a new software if necessary, updating drivers when necessary and performing periodic scans of the system. On a rare occasion a fight breaks out, the severity of the fight is anywhere from just a scuffle (a PUP) to a very civil exchange of "F U...NO YOU FU!" followed by slamming of the doors and one of you driving away for a few hours to cooldown but then eventually return home and after some apologies resume how things were (re-imaging the system, wasting hours to make it work again).

2) Linux and the User: Is a form of a trauma bonding relationship with a person suffering form a Borderline Personality Disorder, you know the one, the one where the other person is crazy and exciting and you feel alive meanwhile it's very exhausting since everything eventually takes a LOT of work to keep the relationship going. Many times when problems do arise you have to spend hours and hours validating their feelings in order for them to talk to you again (finding new packages, searching forums for syntax for ways to install them if it goes wrong). Eventually, you get tired of that relationship and say "Screw it! I am Leaving!" but but after few weeks to months you start remembering how exciting that relationship was. How when it was great it was GREAT! but when it sucked it SUCKED!. So you go back to your old ex and attempt to give it another try. Rinse and repeat.

This post is golden..

 

[EstrellaRhodes]

Totally get where you're coming from! Securing Windows can feel like an endless task sometimes. Linux definitely has its advantages in terms of security and simplicity. Thanks for sharing the hardening resource—I'll check it out! Switching to Linux might be the simpler way for some folks.

 

[ForgottenSeer 114834]

As long as windows maintains the majority of users, Linux will be less of a target. It is out of the box more secure than windows. Once one moves past the multitude of desktop choices and settles for one "as this will be most likely your biggest challenge" most of them are set up out of the box to be easy for new users. This forum is likely full of users that customize and tweak things hence where users start running into issues that frustrate them, but for the majority of users that actually just use their systems for what they were meant for, the task of using either windows or Linux is simplified. As far as securing if one needs to feel the need to lock a system down, both can be a chore. I do feel in my opinion that many go overboard worrying about odds that would match lotteries.

 

[lokamoka820]

In the GitHub page Requirements list, it says:

avoid insecure software like 7-Zip (which lacks Anti-Exploit and MOTW support) and also Forks, Open/ LibreOffice, Firefox, True/Veracrypt, ...

Are there better alternatives?

 

[Andy Ful]

In the GitHub page Requirements list, it says:

Which GitHub page? The info about 7-Zip is outdated (currently it supports MotW by default).

 

[lokamoka820]

Which GitHub page? The info about 7-Zip is outdated (currently it supports MotW by default).

Have a look at this hardening resources page: GitHub - beerisgood/Windows11_Hardening: a collection about Windows 11

 

[Andy Ful]

The hardening resource GitHub - beerisgood/Windows11_Hardening: a collection about Windows 11 is intended for businesses. It is not appropriate at home and it is slightly outdated.
At home or in hybrid work, one can use something much simpler, for example:
https://malwaretips.com/threads/whh...-for-windows-home-and-pro.128274/post-1092745

But, such a hardening can probably be reasonable only for children, happy clickers, etc.

 

[vtqhtr413]

look at Windows-S. Windows-S functions like a MAC environment

Or as if the user has enabled SAC, I tried both, neither lasted long and I really don't use a lot of unusual software.

Corporations get away with mind boggling negligence under current regulations and they just pass those costs onto you, the consumer, and to taxpayers.

This is true across the board in most businesses in capitalist economies, correcting it is a difficult issue, it requires changing our thinking to a longer term model, giving up on the current norm of going for the most return as quickly as possible, what are the odds?

 

[simmerskool]

showing my ignorance... I guess I am surprised that China has not developed its own unique OS, or maybe it has? Could they code with Chinese language characters? Just wondering...