Joined
Feb 13, 2017
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1,468
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Windows 10
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Emsisoft
#41
So once again, you make a claim and fail to back it up with ANY supporting documentation. You just expect everyone to believe you just because you say so. :( Because you have years of professional experience? Yeah right. You can follow the home page link in my profile to see if I might know something about supporting hardware on secure systems and then note I still don't expect readers to simple believe my words are the Gospel because I said them.

How silly is this? Of course the OS does not know where the data is. It is not the operating system's job - regardless if SSD or HD. That is what the file tables are for. This is why you can boot from a secondary drive, move data around, boot from the main OS drive and guess what? The main OS can find the file because the file tables have been updated.

And since when do SSD drivers know where the data is? Never! That's when. You are just making stuff up now. :(

It is also clear you have no clue how erasing software works. Like hard drive wipe programs, secure erase programs don't care where the data is. All they care about is clearing the data in EVERY storage location.
Electrons to be deleted??? OMG! :eek: No doubt Einstein would be very interested in knowing how to "delete electrons". :rolleyes:

Come on! This is just ridiculous! Why run a wipe or secure erase? Because you are getting rid of the drive and don't want a badguy to retrieve your passwords, bank account numbers, or other sensitive data. "IF" something were to go wrong and you brick the drive, so what?

Something can go wrong every time you cross the street. Does that mean you should never cross the street?

Come on people. PLEASE do your own home work. If you don't want to believe the sources I provided, use your friend Bing Google to see for yourself how Secure Erase works, why it is not dangerous when used properly, and most importantly, why you should use it when your SSDs are changing hands or being discarded.
"Newer solid state drives supporting the TRIM command behave differently. When an operating system deletes a file from an SSD, it sends a TRIM command to the drive, and the drive erases the data. On a solid state drive, it takes longer to overwrite a used sector rather than writing data to an unused sector, so erasing the sector ahead of time increases performance.

This means that file-recovery tools won’t work on SSDs. You also shouldn’t wipe SSDs – just deleting the files will do. SSDs have a limited number of write cycles, and wiping them will use up write cycles with no benefit."

You Only Need to Wipe a Disk Once to Securely Erase It

We do not need your sarcasm that shows just your great rudeness, if you were a smart person then you might understand that English is not my main language (in relation to electrons deleted of course).
But no surprise seeing the type of person that I have in front of me...

I simply do not have to prove anything to you and I won't pretend that people follow what I say.

I think in your case, just copy/paste is not sufficient to assert the concreteness of a concept, if your knowledge is only based on web articles like I believe.
 
Likes: frogboy

Digerati

Level 6
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Messages
286
OS
Windows 10
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Microsoft
#42
This means that file-recovery tools won’t work on SSDs. You also shouldn’t wipe SSDs – just deleting the files will do.
What is the point of this quote and in bold emphasis no less? I never - as in NEVER EVER said you should "wipe" a SSD. In fact, I repeatedly said you should not "wipe" a SSD.

And, sorry, but your link does not say, don't use Secure Erase on SSDs or that Secure Erase is "harmful" as you claimed.

Your English is just fine. As is often the case, it is better than many who have English as their native language. It is your understanding of the technology that is lacking, perhaps causing you to assume too much.

1. You are assuming all SSDs support TRIM. Not all do.
2. You are assuming TRIM is enabled, or has not been disabled.
3. You assume the SSD firmware is not buggy and TRIM and garbage collection function properly.
4. You assume all files have been manually deleted by the user before getting rid of the drive.​

Now for sure, we are talking about using sophisticated forensic techniques to recover "court approved" evidence, sensitive data desired by bad guys, or the like. This is a much more complex process with SSDs than it is with hard drives. But because users wanting to protect their sensitive data cannot make those assumptions I noted above, Secure Erase is the only way to ensure SSD forensics cannot recover anything.

I simply do not have to prove anything to you and I won't pretend that people follow what I say.
Yet that is what you seem to expect. I copy and post (with links to the source) because I don't expect people to follow or automatically believe what I say. So instead I link to references instead of claiming my "years of professional experience" is all the readers need to know. :rolleyes:

So here is another link. Recovering Evidence from SSD Drives in 2014: Understanding TRIM, Garbage Collection and Exclusions

I'm done here.
 

BoraMurdar

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#43
Guys please calm down before something more serious happens. About data deletion :
  • You can never be too paranoid
  • It's not healthy to be too paranoid (contrast to above mentioned)
  • In real world scenario Windows will trim (now or later, manually or automatically), thus reclaiming free space. Method is sufficient, except if some pro file re-creator or forensic tries to find out what you were deleting (you are not important enough)
  • If you are important enough, or you think you are important enough, use manufacturer's utility for Secure Erase. There are some fancy names for those utilities but all of them works the same, resetting all NAND locations to an erased state, depending on SSD's controller. This will not do unnecessary writes to the drive. It will, but insignificantly.
  • SSDs will work, in most cases, much longer than you expect, or mathematically calculate, so filling drives with zero's once in a while will not be expensive as much as your energy spent on being too paranoid.
 

Digerati

Level 6
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Messages
286
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Windows 10
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Microsoft
#44
First, my apologies to the OP, the staff, and fellow readers for my part in the side distractions.

In real world scenario Windows will trim (now or later, manually or automatically)
For people getting rid of an old SSD, it is the "later" part that may be a worry - or cause uncertainty. And again, that assumes TRIM is enabled, or has not been disabled for some reason.
If you are important enough, or you think you are important enough
It is not a matter of the user being important or not. It is all about the data and how important it is to the user - or if it may be of value to a bad guy. Do they have a document on there that has their social security number or bank account? Their insurance, medical or tax records? Sensitive work documents? Personal contacts?

There are badguys and opportunists (and neighbor whizkids), who do nothing but gather up old drives to see if there is any old, usable personal data on them they can exploit for some personal gain. So if you are getting rid of an old drive, it is not being overly paranoid to ensure nothing is left behind.

If you are responsible for maintaining other users computers either as part of your job, or as the family computer guy, it is just being prudent to ensure nothing is left behind.

In the case of the OP and this thread, he is receiving a "used" SSD. When you receive a used drive, you must not assume it does not contain malicious code - even if you know where it came from.
SSDs will work, in most cases, much longer than you expect
This is especially true with modern SSDs. There is the obvious reason of no moving parts. But also, modern SSDs just are not susceptible to the write limits of first generation SSDs. This is one reason why the Samsung 850 PRO 2TB SSD is warrantied for 10 years and 450 TBW (terabytes written). That is an astronomical amount of writes.

This will not do unnecessary writes to the drive. It will, but insignificantly.
And without "harming" the drive.