How Paranoid Are You ?

[Eddie Morra]

Everything about a person is already known the first time one applies for a credit card, loan, or mortgage. Thinking that all of this data, already in the public domain, will somehow be reversed by adding a VPN is absurd.

Also, blindly handing all your traffic over to a VPN company which is probably talking rubbish to you and probably is keeping logs for future reference is just absurd. Actually believing that using a VPN is the miracle to everything is just absurd.

Yet so many people will be doing this on a regular basis.

"I am government-free now because I use PureVPN or CyberGhost or ZenMate" urmmmmmm yep nope that isn't how it works buddy!

It's even funnier when the VPN subscription is "free". We all know nothing is "free" in this world. You either pay for the product or you ARE the product and even if you're paying for the product, you can STILL be the cost for the product as well.

 

[509322]

Doing "Enemy of State" stuff to protect yourself is more than a bit kooky.



The government doesn't need to surveille you... because you just being you and doing ordinary day-to-day stuff, you leave a nice, easily picked digital trail (and U.S. made printers capable of decent prints do print a micro code that the U.S. Department of the Treasury can track - it's mandated):

 

[LDogg]

Also, blindly handing all your traffic over to a VPN company which is probably talking rubbish to you and probably is keeping logs for future reference is just absurd. Actually believing that using a VPN is the miracle to everything is just absurd.

Yet so many people will be doing this on a regular basis.

"I am government-free now because I use PureVPN or CyberGhost or ZenMate" urmmmmmm yep nope that isn't how it works buddy!

It's even funnier when the VPN subscription is "free". We all know nothing is "free" in this world. You either pay for the product or you ARE the product and even if you're paying for the product, you can STILL be the cost for the product as well.

Do you have any evidence that free services such as Windscribe or any pro services in the VPN sector actually conduct this as you state?

~LDogg

 

[Deleted Member 3a5v73x]

Do you have any evidence that free services such as Windscribe or any pro services in the VPN sector actually conduct this as you state?

~LDogg

probably

 

[Eddie Morra]

Do you have any evidence that free services such as Windscribe or any pro services in the VPN sector actually conduct this as you state?

No, but I am not complaining that they are doing anything wrong, so I am sorry if it seemed like that. I used the word "probably" for that reason.

If you really believe that handing over all your traffic to a VPN provider is going to keep you safe from the government then you're terribly wrong (general comment, not aimed at you). Hundreds, thousands even, of criminals are caught on a yearly basis. Guess what they all have in common? They thought a VPN would hide their criminal activities.

In fact, many from the dark web using the Tor network on a Tails machine are regularly caught as well. Resources are usually spent on getting the vendors and not the buyers unless you're buying illegal chemicals that can be used to make bombs or setup a methamphetamine lab or guns. Why? Because governments silently subvert the market places and use other methods to track, including exploiting vulnerabilities.

If a government really wanted to, they will illegally hack your VPN provider and steal intelligence. Your VPN provider will probably not know about it until years after it has happened, and likely won't have sufficient evidence to prove it was government-related nor pin-point it to a specific government, as long as it is the UK, U.S, France, Germany, or another smart country with talented hackers.

If a government agency comes raining down on a VPN provider and is throwing so much paperwork at them and every law they can to get what they want, chances are the VPN provider is going to give you up. They can drop a few pounds a year and save their business or end up being destroyed to the ground. Government agencies can also make deals to keep data exchanges silent and prevent the provider from being exposed publicly from handing over the information - they will have the authority to make such deals. If the VPN provider went to court and then got overruled for handing over the information, then they'd be baited publicly, so it'd be in their best interest to just provide the data over one or a few customers and keep their business customers believing they don't keep logs nor pass data.

Businesses will always put themselves first 9 times out of 10 no matter if they say otherwise. If you have a 10 year old business, would you give up data about an alleged criminal and have it kept quiet, or take it to court and potentially get completely wrecked? I think most would choose the former, even if they claim no logs and no data sharing to all their customers at the same time.

Sometimes the marketing might say no logs and no data sharing, then you check the privacy policy/ToS you are about to sign on purchase/installation and it might say otherwise as well. Such is also things that happen from time to time.

 

[LDogg]

Put in that aspect. That's fairly logical. Some out there though keep no logs, one even went to court fora user.

~LDogg

 

[509322]

No, but I am not complaining that they are doing anything wrong, so I am sorry if it seemed like that. I used the word "probably" for that reason.

If you really believe that handing over all your traffic to a VPN provider is going to keep you safe from the government then you're terribly wrong (general comment, not aimed at you). Hundreds, thousands even, of criminals are caught on a yearly basis. Guess what they all have in common? They thought a VPN would hide their criminal activities.

In fact, many from the dark web using the Tor network on a Tails machine are regularly caught as well. Resources are usually spent on getting the vendors and not the buyers unless you're buying illegal chemicals that can be used to make bombs or setup a methamphetamine lab or guns. Why? Because governments silently subvert the market places and use other methods to track, including exploiting vulnerabilities.

If a government really wanted to, they will illegally hack your VPN provider and steal intelligence. Your VPN provider will probably not know about it until years after it has happened, and likely won't have sufficient evidence to prove it was government-related nor pin-point it to a specific government, as long as it is the UK, U.S, France, Germany, or another smart country with talented hackers.

If a government agency comes raining down on a VPN provider and is throwing so much paperwork at them and every law they can to get what they want, chances are the VPN provider is going to give you up. They can drop a few pounds a year and save their business or end up being destroyed to the ground. Government agencies can also make deals to keep data exchanges silent and prevent the provider from being exposed publicly from handing over the information - they will have the authority to make such deals. If the VPN provider went to court and then got overruled for handing over the information, then they'd be baited publicly, so it'd be in their best interest to just provide the data over one or a few customers and keep their business customers believing they don't keep logs nor pass data.

Businesses will always put themselves first 9 times out of 10 no matter if they say otherwise. If you have a 10 year old business, would you give up data about an alleged criminal and have it kept quiet, or take it to court and potentially get completely wrecked? I think most would choose the former, even if they claim no logs and no data sharing to all their customers at the same time.

Sometimes the marketing might say no logs and no data sharing, then you check the privacy policy/ToS you are about to sign on purchase/installation and it might say otherwise as well. Such is also things that happen from time to time.

No VPN in its right mind is going to protect its users when a government comes down on it and basically says "Give us the datas or else you go to jail, we shut you down permanently, or both."

And warrant canaries are worthless.

VPNs are one of the biggest scams running right now. On U.S. televisions there are scam scare campaigns by NordVPN to get people to use their VPN for 24/7/365 web surfing. And people who don't know any better subscribe - which is so typical of a lot of IT security stuff. It goes to the point I am making in this thread... doing stuff based upon ignorance (not knowing) which creates fear (and acting out of fear instead of understanding).

 

[codswollip]

There's little room for escape from "Big Data". Several years ago I opened an "anonymous" social media account, creating a "foreign user"; accessed only via vpn, and posting/messaging solely in Croation (using online translation). Two years later, I started to receive vacation and health supplement ads on my android tablet in Croation (which had never accessed this social site).

Was that simply coincidence? I doubt so. I suspect that my overall vpn usage triggered an IP link. Who knows.

 

[509322]

There's little room for escape from "Big Data". Several years ago I opened an "anonymous" social media account, creating a "foreign user"; accessed only via vpn, and posting/messaging solely in Croation (using online translation). Two years later, I started to receive vacation and health supplement ads on my android tablet in Croation (which had never accessed this social site).

Was that simply coincidence? I doubt so. I suspect that my overall vpn usage triggered an IP link. Who knows.

Exactly.

Here in the U.S., get an unpublished, private number. Then open a few "safe" online accounts like Hotmail, Gmail, Amazon, etc that want your phone number - the ones who say they don't share your datas and that their data centers are uber safe... and guess what ? Within months your phone number is being blown-up by scammers.

The how and why of it happening is irrelevant.... all that matters is that it does happen despite you being careful, using common sense protections, security softs, VPN, privacy extensions, etc.

I understand these things. So I'm not going to behave like a nutball operating on fear and try to craft "impenetrable fortresses" on my PCs and other digital devices. Taking the approach "I am confident because I am paranoid and my reaction is to carry a really big stick" is pure paranoia. It is fear-driven and over-compensatory. The stuff that is done while operating in that mode is more often than not pointless and needless.

 

[509322]

Patient: "I know there is danger so my reaction is to create uber security. I must create layers within layers, interlinks within interlinks, of protection."

Sigmund Freud: "Uh-hum... I see. Well, in this case a cigar is just a cigar. You're paranoid."

 

[codswollip]

Here in the U.S., get an unpublished, private number. Then open a few "safe" online accounts like Hotmail, Gmail, Amazon, etc that want your phone number - the ones who say they don't share your datas and that their data centers are uber safe... and guess what ? Within months your phone number is being blown-up by scammers.

Worse still... your friends upload their contacts lists, which includes "you", to anyone who asks (Facebook, Microsoft, LinkedIn, blah, blah, blah), as well as to phone apps requesting "Contacts" access, and soon everyone has access to your personal data. Even Facebook admits to maintaining data on "shadow users" drawn from the contact info of their registered users.

 

[Deleted Member 3a5v73x]

This 'Paranoia' discussion is never-ending story. There are enough not so experienced users who wants to run simultaneously e.g. Hard_Configurator, OSArmor, SysHardener, if that isn't 'Paranoia' with lack of understanding and fears of unknown, then I don't know what it is. Andy made clear as day documentation and help instructions, still there are questions what H_C does. Don't want to read, don't want to learn, don't want to pay, just consume.

 

[509322]

This 'Paranoia' discussion is never-ending story. There are enough not so experienced users who wants to run simultaneously e.g. Hard_Configurator, OSArmor, SysHardener, if that isn't 'Paranoia' with lack of understanding and fears of unknown, then I don't know what it is. Andy made clear as day documentation and help instructions, still there are questions what H_C does. Don't want to read, don't want to learn, just consume.

It isn't mocking. It is comical. Plus, I admitted a few times that I was at one time one of the most idiotic paranoids out there. I operated completely on fear. I did so much stupid stuff with my security configs that I was the very definition of "paranoid pathetic." I had custom designed tin foil hats. A whole closet full.

It is not just here at MT. Paranoia is all over the web. Your neighbors. Everywhere.

I saw a local home user who bought 3 AV licenses... Bitdefender, Kaspersky and Cylance. He managed to install all three on one system. I have absolutely no idea how he got Bitdefender and Kaspersky to install together on the same system. When I asked him "How did you do that ?" he couldn't say. "I don't know, I just installed them. There were some problems, but it all worked in the end." When I asked him why he did that he showed me "IT security stuff [he] read online... that scared the crap out of [him]." So he proceeded to do what a lot of people do.

Then there was the precious example of the girl who reported the new Windows Defender on Windows 10 as malware. You don't remember that one ?

 

[ChemicalB]

I'm pretty paranoid and we know that every click, every action carried out on the internet is subject to a potential risk.
We are on the internet: a public place, so we shouldn't trust anyone.

 

[509322]

People usually don't stop being paranoid because they come to a better understanding. What really happens is that they just get sick and tired of security softs, managing all the stuff they put onto their systems, and all the problems that causes - and that happnens long before they reach a deeper level of understanding of security matters. :X3:

It's all perfectly true.

 

[509322]

If you are paranoid and want no therapy, then you use Chromebook.

I use Chromebook.

Everyone here knows it.

LOL

 

[509322]

LOL... now Private Internet Access has U.S. commercials.

"Use our VPN or else you will be hacked..."

Fear mongering is a powerful selling tool. Especially to sheep that fear the word "Boo !"

 

[509322]

On my Acer Chromebook for Work 14 right now. So hassle-free no paranoia. It is so awesome compared to Windows.

I have Mullvad VPN on it just for giggles.

 

[Kubla]

Put in that aspect. That's fairly logical. Some out there though keep no logs, one even went to court fora user.

~LDogg

It would make since to not keep logs so you are not complicit in any illegality. However it does make one wonder if some keep no logs until they are made to keep logs on specific users.

 

[LDogg]

It would make since to not keep logs so you are not complicit in any illegality. However it does make one wonder if some keep no logs until they are made to keep logs on specific users.

Most take logs any. Depending on information.

~LDogg