SearchLight

Level 11
Verified
After reading several postings by some of the tech gurus and others here at MT, the takeaway I got was that the new Microsoft Edge is slightly the better overall browser over Chrome out-of-the-box for average users .

I say this well aware of the "many" original Chromium forks but being so many, and the timing of development schedules, one can get confused as an average user choosing which one is best, and how to tweak it.

Of course, some would say it is matter of personal preference, and some hard core MT vets might say nothing but vanilla Chromium but I just wanted to clarify once and for all if it seems like Edge is now "edging" out Google Chrome, and would be a safe, and good recommendation for anyone asking.
 

Marko :)

Level 17
Verified
Web Privacy? How does this work when all your urls are sent to Microsoft ?

Also from my own experience with the Edge browser it seems to have a pre-configured DNS that it uses and it bypasses system DNS settings.
Edge fans be like "well, it's not like Microsoft IS going to show someone visited URLs, so IT IS PRIVATE".
It does not bypass the DNS enforced by my router, which is adopted by the system (haven’t tested my system independently since the router overrides it anyway). But I don’t think it has a hard coded DNS, what did you see that makes it seem like it is? Also, if you turn off smart screen then urls don’t go plaintext to M$. Problem solved. Though they have really good web filtering because of this. As with anything privacy/security it’s a trade off.
You can't have security without privacy. You shouldn't trade your privacy for security. Edge shouldn't be called privacy browser because there's nothing private about it. Edge is as private as is CM Browser by Clean Master.
 

security123

Level 27
Verified
What makes you say that enabling DOH will break something?
This isn't what I wrote. I say that the secure DNS flag in edge break sites for me. Not that DoH breaking stuff.

You can't have security without privacy. You shouldn't trade your privacy for security. Edge shouldn't be called privacy browser because there's nothing private about it. Edge is as private as is CM Browser by Clean Master
Opposite. You can't get privacy without security as with broken or weak security your privacy can't be realised.
Also you should read Microsoft's privacy policy. Also edge respect your Windows privacy settings. I don't know any other browser did that. And last but not least you can config Edge if you want more privacy but less security with e.g. disabled SmartScreen (not recommend!)
 

TairikuOkami

Level 29
Verified
Content Creator

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Marko :)

Level 17
Verified
Opposite. You can't get privacy without security as with broken or weak security your privacy can't be realised.
Also you should read Microsoft's privacy policy. Also edge respect your Windows privacy settings. I don't know any other browser did that. And last but not least you can config Edge if you want more privacy but less security with e.g. disabled SmartScreen (not recommend!)
That's bullsh*t and you know it! You can make security product equally effective and that doesn't breach user's privacy. Take a look at Emsisoft Browser Security and Google Safe Browsing (which Chrome, Firefox and other browsers use).

Emsisoft Browsing Security checks every website you visit, but hashes URLs locally on the device and then queries Emsisoft's servers. That means that no one, including Emsisoft, cannot find out which website you had visited.

Google Safe Browsing works similar way except everything is done locally on device. When you start a web browser, it downloads list containing malicious websites. Then, as you surf the web, Chrome checks every URL for a match on that downloaded list. If URL isn't on the list, website is normally loaded. In case URL is found on the list, access is blocked and only part of domain is hashed and sent to Google. So neither does Google know what website you visited; they only see the hash which they cannot magically turn into URL.

I mean, this is just sad and embarrassing. Advertising company uses privacy friendly solution and Microsoft doesn't.

Also you should read Microsoft's privacy policy. Also edge respect your Windows privacy settings. I don't know any other browser did that. And last but not least you can config Edge if you want more privacy but less security with e.g. disabled SmartScreen (not recommend!)
Wait, you seriously trust Microsoft after so many privacy scandals? 😄

I guess you didn't see the one that includes SmartScreen which you praise a lot. Even though SmartScreen was supposed to be anonymous, it used to send full URLs along with the user details so Microsoft had a pretty good idea where you surf. Oh, did you see the one back from 2018 when activity history sent data even when you've disabled that. I found it funny how Windows 10 was released in 2015., but we didn't know what data was being collected until 2017. when they released full list written in "developer language".

I honestly wanted to know what data exactly Defender collects when using it. Never found it because it isn't mentioned in privacy policy. I'm still wondering to this day...

I mean, you do realize that Google has been marked as spyware because it collects data, but they never had as many privacy scandals as Microsoft. At least Google has written normal privacy policy where it explains what they collect, why and how they use it. They even give you ability to turn everything off.
Microsoft, on the other hand, has poorly written privacy policy that doesn't explain anything in detail and doesn't give you the ability to turn everything off.
 
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Jan Willy

Level 4
About privacy see What Does Big Tech Know About You? Basically Everything
The site shows in a nutshell what the big tech companies collect about you. A highly clarifying article, but it remains unclear what the privacy-collectors exactly do with your personal data. Regarding the differences between the collectors: does it matter whether you are bitten by the dog or the cat?
 
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security123

Level 27
Verified
Some allow it to be disabled, Edge does not and Syncing browsing history can not be disabled either, it can be only cleaned, online. o_O

That's not true.
You can fully disable sync. Also you not need to add a account/ profile if you don't want any sync features.
Syncing history isn't possible at the moment, so it's off.

You can also clear history:
history.png

here a screen from my sync settings:
sync.png

and here one from disabled telemetry:
telemetry.png
 

Marko :)

Level 17
Verified
You're jumping to conclusions..

Web privacy = Tracking protection, a feature not built into Chrome.

All browsers will send telemetry back to itself.
Keep in mind default Windows 10 telemetry option is Full and that these settings are also applied to Microsoft Edge. Full option collects a lot of data including what you visit.

You also have to keep in mind that Edge tracks telemetry by device ID which cannot be changed. Other browsers use installation ID which you can easily change just by reinstalling a web browser.

Also, what is the point of Edge's tracking protection when you'll install the ad blocker that does the same, even better?
Not if you are using MS account. With MS it is always: All or nothing. I want to sync, but not everything, definitely not browsing history.
Even if there was an option to turn that off, it might not work. Just remember what happened before; Microsoft gave us an option to disable sending of activity history that wasn't working. I think there are still some privacy options in Windows 10 that do nothing, placebo effect.
 

security123

Level 27
Verified
Not if you are using MS account. With MS it is always: All or nothing. I want to sync, but not everything, definitely not browsing history.
I use a online MS Windows account.

Keep in mind default Windows 10 telemetry option is Full and that these settings are also applied to Microsoft Edge. Full option collects a lot of data including what you visit.
That's just wrong.
Windows doesn't has any default telemetry setting in setup. User need to click what he wan't.

You also have to keep in mind that Edge tracks telemetry by device ID which cannot be changed. Other browsers use installation ID which you can easily change just by reinstalling a web browser.
Microsoft get the device ID from Windows anyway. So what's the point here?

Also, what is the point of Edge's tracking protection when you'll install the ad blocker that does the same, even better?
The tracking protection and SmartScreen does a good job. A external extension increase the attack surface, use permission's to read all sites, ..
 

plat1098

Level 22
Verified
That's just wrong.
Windows doesn't has any default telemetry setting in setup. User need to click what he wan't.

This is the setting--the wording changed in 2004. The "Optional" setting includes browsing data. During setup of a clean installation, I purposefully selected Full Telemetry because any critical faults are handled very quickly.

dxdata.PNG
 

Marko :)

Level 17
Verified
That's just wrong.
Windows doesn't has any default telemetry setting in setup. User need to click what he wan't.
Make a new Windows 10 installation, you'll see what is the default value. I was reinstalling Windows on some PCs recently; on all of them default value was Full. I actually had to switch it to Basic. I was installing version 2004.

There might be new name for Full – optional diagnostic data. But, my point is still valid.
Microsoft get the device ID from Windows anyway. So what's the point here?
Exactly.

Now, they have your device ID and you surf the web with Edge (which also means they have full URLs of visited websites). Want to surf anonymously? Sure, just keep in mind Microsoft sees this as well because od device ID and SmartScreen. Even if you used VPN, Microsoft still knows it's you that visited that specific website because VPN won't mask device ID.

Do you now see what's wrong?

Other browsers could easily use device ID instead installation ID, but they won't because they know it would breach user privacy.
The tracking protection and SmartScreen does a good job. A external extension increase the attack surface, use permission's to read all sites, ..
Yeah, uBlock Origin is sure going to make me more vulnerable... 🙄
Edge seems to be less appealing than I have thought. One last question. Does it call home (Google) via port 5228 as other Chromium based browsers?
I mean, on first run it does contact Google, and bunch of other tracking hosts, so...

 

SeriousHoax

Level 32
Verified
Few things that I would like to mention that I don't like about Microsoft Edge is that,

1) Chrome use Secure DNS by default. Currently it doesn't even have a secure dns flag because it's enabled by default and even lets you choose any other providers directly from settings. How come Edge don't have this yet! But I guess they will have this soon.

2) If you have top sites enabled on your Edge home page then it loads data from msn. I see that cookies from "msn.com, ntp.msn.com" is allowed by default on the home page. Why Microsoft would need to load top sites of home page from a third party source? Why can't they use internal data for that like Firefox do. There's always a certain delay like a second or less for top sites to come into view when the browser is open as well as a new tab is opened because like I said the resource is loaded from ntp.msn.com. Here ntp stands for 'new tab page". I don't know how Chrome does this, external source or internal but similar to Firefox there's no delay in Chrome anyway.
Ow also the home page loads something from "scorecardresearch.com" because I see when the home page is loaded this third party cookie is blocked by the browser because I have set it to block all third party cookies. Again, what my browser home page has anything to do with this site? What are you doing Microsoft!!!

3) Another extremely stupid thing is, to send a link from your PC browser to your mobile you need Microsoft's Your Phone app. Without it you can't send links to your mobile and vice versa. Google Chrome don't need an app for this, Firefox don't need an app for this. I can instantly send link from one device to another because of the syncing feature. There's absolutely no reason for an app here but Microsoft is simply forcing Edge user to install their app for this feature. Awful practice from Microsoft. This is disgusting.

I like it as a browser, nice clean, great design and fast but the no. 2 and no. 3 issues extremely bothers me. Their android version is also in a very bad state at the moment. Outdated, no flags support, etc. They should put some more focus there. Personally I think Edge is yet not convincing enough for long time Chrome and Firefox users to make the shift.
 

security123

Level 27
Verified
Make a new Windows 10 installation, you'll see what is the default value. I was reinstalling Windows on some PCs recently; on all of them default value was Full. I actually had to switch it to Basic. I was installing version 2004.
I does with 1909 and 2004 and no options are selected by default. User can't click next without doing anything.

Want to surf anonymously? Sure, just keep in mind Microsoft sees this as well because od device ID and SmartScreen. Even if you used VPN, Microsoft still knows it's you that visited that specific website because VPN won't mask device ID.
That doesn't matter to the sites you surf. They don't get your ID.
I agree through that this isn't a nice way from Microsoft.
 

Marko :)

Level 17
Verified
I does with 1909 and 2004 and no options are selected by default. User can't click next without doing anything.
I did installations last month, Full was still default setting. Maybe something changed in meantime. If they really changed installation process and now you need to choose yourself, bravo Microsoft!

That's how things always should've had been.
That doesn't matter to the sites you surf. They don't get your ID.
I agree through that this isn't a nice way from Microsoft.
You might think they don't have your device ID, but they have it. It's how they identify your PC. It's how they know what PC to activate after reinstallation. That device ID can easily be connected with other data they have.

You don't have to trust me. Trust ex-Microsoft employee; switch to 1:30 where he mentioned privacy issues.
 
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