Gandalf_The_Grey

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Microsoft has been working on a refreshed Windows 10 Start Menu for a while now, and you can finally try it out later this year. But that’s not all the company is changing in Windows 10.

In addition to these nifty improvements, Microsoft is also promising a renewed focus in Windows 10.

If you’re a resolute Windows watcher, you may have noticed that Windows is no longer the most important layer for Microsoft as the company has shifted focus to other products, such as Azure and Office.

Under Satya Nadella, Microsoft has become far friendlier to open source platforms and Nadella has made a lot of changes to its business model.

Windows has stopped getting the attention ever since Microsoft reorganized Windows development to focus on its cloud and AI organization. However, Panos Panay, who is now heading Windows and Surface, indirectly confirmed at Ignite 2020 that the company is still committed to Windows 10.

At Ignite 2020, Panos Panay said that he wants to see “people move from needing [Windows] to loving and wanting [Windows]”.

Microsoft has always wanted users to like Windows 10 and it appears that the company is finally serious about its commitment to the OS under Panos’ leadership.

“There has never been more investment in Windows than there has been recently at Microsoft,” Panos said.

The fact that Microsoft’s senior leaders are using words like “loving, wanting and investment” suggests that Windows 10 is finally set for some much-needed improvements, but we don’t know when we will begin to see real changes in the operating system.
 

Cortex

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I use three programs from Stardock that give me the customisation I like, I really don't like the standard 10 Start Menu at all & have used an alternative before 10 with 8, I find all Stardock programs totally stable & use little resources - IMO no reason MS can't give us more options on Windows than dark & light & in future rounded corners? :):)
 

Raiden

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I think this is great news. Hopfully it comes to fruition. I think what MS needs to do is:

a. Fix the constant major update issues that seem to be the norm as of late with each new major release.

b. Give usere more configuration, customization options on how they want to setup and use Windows.

c. Stop all the telemetry with the exception of things that actually matter. For example smartscreen and WD needing to use ML and the like.

d. Get rid of those annoying ads in the start menu when you first install Window. Have it as bare bones as possible and let the user add what they want.

I'm sure there are others, but these are some of the things they need to do if they really want people to love Windows. :emoji_beer:
 
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Tutman

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I have been using Open shell since open source and free now! Open-Shell/Open-Shell-Menu I can even change the start menu button icons(with animations) for normal/hover/click to anything I want!

start.pngstarthover.pngstart3.png

Looks better irl or video instead of screenshot lol
 

Gandalf_The_Grey

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I think this is great news. Hopfully it comes to fruition. I think what MS needs to do is:

a. Fix the constant major update issues that seem to be the norm as of late with each new major release.

b. Give usere more configuration, customization options on how they want to setup and use Windows.

c. Stop all the telemetry with the exception of things that actually matter. For example smartscreen and WD needing to use ML and the like.

d. Get rid of those annoying ads in the start menu when you first install Window. Have it as bare bones as possible and let the user add what they want.

I'm sure there are others, but these are some of the things they need to do if they really want people to love Windows. :emoji_beer:
I heard that they do less testing on different configurations than before and absolutely need as much telemetry as possible.
So if everybody allows full telemetry there should be less issues.
More configuration and customization options will lead to more bugs.
But I fully agree no more ads in the start menu and other places.

This video is a great video by Barnacules Nerdgasm a former Microsoft employee about why all those bugs exist:

 

Cortex

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I had an insiders email today from MS - One of the exciting new features: 'Theme-aware tiles in Start, this refined Start design removes the solid color (sic) back plates behind the logos in the apps list and applies a uniform, partially transparent background to the tiles' - Not exactly groundbreaking ideas though? Been using similar for years :):)
 

Raiden

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I heard that they do less testing on different configurations than before and absolutely need as much telemetry as possible.
So if everybody allows full telemetry there should be less issues.
More configuration and customization options will lead to more bugs.
But I fully agree no more ads in the start menu and other places.

This video is a great video by Barnacules Nerdgasm a former Microsoft employee about why all those bugs exist:


Seems like an interesting video, I will definitely watch it later today.:)

I agree that with the telemetry they technically should have far less issues, unfortunately that doesn't seem to be the case. Personally I think the issue is tied to in-place upgrades not clean installs for the most part. For example I always do a clean install when every major update is released and have had zero issues. In saying this I know always doing a clean install is not everyone's cup of tea. However, if the issues are tied more to in-place upgrades then that's where their focus needs to be. If they cannot figure it out, I think they need to bring the QA team back and reduce the telemetry.

For the most part, things like telemetry don't bother me at all. I am mostly echoing general issues that many people have with Windows 10. These seems to be some of the bigger issues for many people and if they want people to love Windows, they may have to address some of these things. In all honesty, how many people truly LOVE Windows, probably not very many. Most people just use it just cause and or it has the programs that they need.

I've always had the belief that MS probably has to redesign things from the ground up. It may cost them some backwards compatibility, but at some point things have to move on. Even if it means your Windows 98 program doesn't run anymore.;)
 

pablozi

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Even if IMHO Windows 10 is very good OS, somehow I couldn't convince myself to stay with the default Start Menu - it is way less functional than "old" Start Menu we know from Windows 7 en older OS versions, so I guess I will stick to StartIsBack++ for the time being.
 

Cortex

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I've gone many updates without a full reinstall with no problems with little image increase in size - I did a full install in June as i was running a new build, it does depend on how complex your PC setup is - I took 21 hours just to get the PC as I roughly wanted it & spend the next week still fiddling with settings, I've not found it necessary to full install every six months & the time & effort would be prohibitive & for me with little if any advantage - Regular imaging allows me to try things out & revert as needed, I have around 50 none MS programs including portable most of which need setting up - I've a fast internet connection.
 

Gandalf_The_Grey

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Seems like an interesting video, I will definitely watch it later today.:)

I agree that with the telemetry they technically should have far less issues, unfortunately that doesn't seem to be the case. Personally I think the issue is tied to in-place upgrades not clean installs for the most part. For example I always do a clean install when every major update is released and have had zero issues. In saying this I know always doing a clean install is not everyone's cup of tea. However, if the issues are tied more to in-place upgrades then that's where their focus needs to be. If they cannot figure it out, I think they need to bring the QA team back and reduce the telemetry.

For the most part, things like telemetry don't bother me at all. I am mostly echoing general issues that many people have with Windows 10. These seems to be some of the bigger issues for many people and if they want people to love Windows, they may have to address some of these things. In all honesty, how many people truly LOVE Windows, probably not very many. Most people just use it just cause and or it has the programs that they need.

I've always had the belief that MS probably has to redesign things from the ground up. It may cost them some backwards compatibility, but at some point things have to move on. Even if it means your Windows 98 program doesn't run anymore.;)
It's an interesting video, but don't forget it's from a guy not working at Microsoft anymore, so he could have a hidden agenda.

I completely agree with your suggestion to bring the QA team back and reduce the telemetry, but I'm not sure they are listening. :unsure:
Hopefully, the renewed focus with Panos Panay in charge will change things for the better.
We (geeks :D) do clean installs but the majority will not do that so Windows must remain functional with in-place upgrades.

I don't think we will get a complete redesign, but they are slowly improving things:
 
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Gandalf_The_Grey

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Even if IMHO Windows 10 is very good OS, somehow I couldn't convince myself to stay with the default Start Menu - it is way less functional than "old" Start Menu we know from Windows 7 en older OS versions, so I guess I will stick to StartIsBack++ for the time being.
I used to use StartIsBack++ on my laptop, but now that my work laptop is finally on Windows 10 and I don't have the rights to install it I removed it also from my personal laptop. The default Start Menu takes some time to get used to it, but its highly customable and not all that bad.
 

jetman

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I think there is a gap in he market for a new desktop operating system that is sandboxed in the same way as iOS and therefore delivers much greater security. Windows has proven to be an excellent operating system that has stood the test of time, but most Home Users have no need for it's advanced features and versatility. I predict that iOS and Mac OS will merge into a single operating system over time. Windows could also undergo a transformation as Microsoft aims to make more revenue from its App store.
 

Raiden

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I think there is a gap in he market for a new desktop operating system that is sandboxed in the same way as iOS and therefore delivers much greater security. Windows has proven to be an excellent operating system that has stood the test of time, but most Home Users have no need for it's advanced features and versatility. I predict that iOS and Mac OS will merge into a single operating system over time. Windows could also undergo a transformation as Microsoft aims to make more revenue from its App store.

Interestingly enough I think MS was trying to accomplish just that with Windows 10S, but people didn't like the limitations. I could be wrong, but overall I don't think it has gotten very much traction.

If anything it may follow Linux more. They are much more open to Linux and open source then ever before, with them even contributing to the Linux kernel. I am not saying that it will be based on Linux, but stranger things have happened. We have to remember that MS really has shifted focus on being s services company, more so than a software company, so it's very evident their goals are very different than it was like 10+ years ago.
 
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security123

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Even if IMHO Windows 10 is very good OS, somehow I couldn't convince myself to stay with the default Start Menu - it is way less functional than "old" Start Menu we know from Windows 7 en older OS versions, so I guess I will stick to StartIsBack++ for the time being.
I like the 10 start menu more and it provide a lot more functions then the old, restricted from 7.
Also installing such tools ending in many problems with system security and stability so I recommend staying away
 

Local Host

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As to telemetry: why should we (users) do the testing ? I'd rather see no telemetry and a new Windows version every 12 or even 18 months. In this way Microsoft would have enough time to do all the testing before a major update. Who says that we need a new Windows version every 6 months ?
Microsoft Telemetry is overrated and blown out of proportion, they use ML for testing. Plus is not a like it's a new version of Windows (every 6 months), is just a new build with new features, improvements and fixes.

I would say 90% of the problems are caused by the users themselves, still haven't forgotten how people were misusing folder redirection then whined was Microsoft fault for losing their files (all Microsoft did was fix an old bug that left the old folder behind, causing duplicate libraries).

Not to mention the huge amount of users that rush to upgrade, despite their device not being 100% compatible yet (either due to drivers or software incompatibility), then they blame Microsoft.
 

security123

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I would say 90% of the problems are caused by the users themselves, still haven't forgotten how people were misusing folder redirection then whined was Microsoft fault for losing their files (all Microsoft did was fix an old bug that left the old folder behind, causing duplicate libraries).
That wasn't even Microsoft's fault as Windows ask the user if files should be moved or not. Sure Windows can just enforce that (which would be better) but the option is available for better customisation - sadly for error on user side too.

Also yes the whole telemetry story is just overrated. This is because of pushing from media and "privacy" community's which are only ignorant or misinformed guys. I see every day such people on Reddit :/
 

Gandalf_The_Grey

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Satya Nadella says Microsoft is doubling down on Windows:
Not too long ago we had full Microsoft earnings with no mention of Windows at all, but the resurgence of work from home brought on by the COVID-19 pandemic has made people realise the value of a platform dedicated to productivity and has returned the Windows ecosystem to growth.

At Microsoft’s earning call yesterday the company revealed that the number of Windows 10 monthly active devices are up double digits year-over-year, across commercial, consumer, and education. This means if there was 1000 million Windows PCs in use in 2019, an additional 100 million came online, or for the more accepted 1.5 billion PC installed base an extra 150 million+ are now in use.

This growth has inspired Microsoft to double-down on the PC market, with Satya Nadella saying at their earnings call last night:

If anything, again, the last nine months or so have proven that when it comes to Windows and PCs, they become mission-critical because when it comes to remote learning, remote work and any type of activity and productivity, in particular, depends on having PCs and applications on PCs. So, we are doubling down on it.
That means, the innovation in Windows, and Microsoft 365 is the best way to conceptualize how we even think about Windows because it’s one surface area where we want to deliver our best payloads for productivity, communications, collaboration, business process.
And we’ll keep working even on the form function innovation as well. So, even if you look at the holiday lineup of devices, it’s great to see that, large screens, small screens, mobile, different chip architectures that make it pretty attractive to have a Windows device with you always. So, that’s how we look at it. It’s very important. I think, if anything, even mobile-only countries and mobile-only scenarios are recognizing that they also can do with some help with additional screens. And so, that’s something that we look forward to.
Breaking it down, Nadella is reviving the “best on Windows” idea again, after abandoning it when the dominance of mobile iOS and Android platforms was clear.

Secondly, Satya appears to be suggesting a return of mobile Windows in some form, presumably in the form of devices such as the Surface Neo, which would allow you to “have a Windows device with you always.” That is of course unless Nadella mistakenly believes the Surface Duo runs Windows.

It remains to be seen what Microsoft has in mind, but with reports that Microsoft plans to revamp the UI of Windows 10, it seems there is once again some fire in the Windows engine and some enthusiasm for the platform from Microsoft.

The full earnings call transcript can be read here.
 
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