Advice Request New Microsoft Edge grew 1,300% this year, overtaking Firefox

[blackice]

MS could easily make chrome the default browser on Windows 10 since it is still currently the most popular browser around but
they didnt not do that.

Why would they outside of being forced? They aren't in business to support their competitors.

 

[The_King]

Chrome seems to be doing just fine. Even excluding mobile their market share is not even close. Almost everyone I know installs Chrome regardless of their tech ability. If you remember Google was the cool savior of the internet 15 years ago. Does anybody remember when you were cool for having a beta gmail account? It's only relatively recently trendy to hate on them. A business's job is to increase market share. That's what all of these browsers are doing. Firefox's niche just makes that more difficult. If they could they would be controlling 68% market just like google.

Both MS and Google have questionable tactics and to say that either company plays by fair rules then you should see all the antitrust cases against both companies.
I'm sure all the Google chrome users loved being tracked by google while they used incognito mode.

Using Google as an example to compared to MS to is like comparing one bad apple to another one.

 

[The_King]

Why would they outside of being forced? They aren't in business to support their competitors.

Yes so how is it fair competition that they bundle their own browser in their OS? It is anti competitive full stop.

 

[blackice]

Both MS and Google have questionable tactics and to say that either company plays but fair rules then you should see all the antitrust cases both companies.
I'm sure all the Google chrome users loved being tracked by google while they used incognito mode.

Using Google as an example to compared to MS to is like comparing one bad apple to another one.

My point isn’t a comparison, my point was google was able to go from zero to hero while under Microsoft’s thumb. They are both businesses looking out for their shareholders.

 

[blackice]

Yes so how is it fair competition that they bundle their own browser in their OS? It is anti competitive full stop.

I didn’t say it wasn’t. American companies have no incentive to be good corporate citizens and they behave as the money takes them because they aren’t run by individuals with high ideals. They are run by business people who are paid to increase shareholder value. Whether you approve or disapprove of that ethically is different. All I’m saying is it is expected behavior with no incentive to change.

 

[Local Host]

Running a business is one thing having proper business ethics is another.

I am shocked that MS is allowed to legally bundle its Edge browser in Windows 10 or through windows updates.

I don't see you complaining about Apple nor Google doing the same thing with their systems and browsers.

Firefox only doesn't do it, cause they don't have a desktop OS, they did do it with their flopped mobile OS though.

So clearly the problem here isn't Microsoft.

If I had an OS, I would also pack it with my in house software for a better ecosystem, there no logic in complaining about it.

 

[The_King]

I don't see you complaining about Apple nor Google doing the same thing with their systems and browsers.

Firefox only doesn't do it, cause they don't have a desktop OS, they did do it with their flopped mobile OS though.

So clearly the problem here isn't Microsoft.

I did complain about google i wont even get started on the Biggest Bad Apple of them all.

Google, MS and apple have several major antitrust and anti competitive lawsuits against them.

 

[Local Host]

I did complain about google i wont even get started on the Biggest Bad Apple of them all.

Google, MS and apple have several major antitrust and anti competitive lawsuits against them.

I don't entirely disagree with you, but Microsoft hasn't had any cases of anti-trust nor anti-competitive in years, same goes for privacy cases (by working with regulators and advocating its own solutions).

Google on the other hand hasn't stopped their track record.

Apple is not even worth mentioning.

 

[rain2reign]

I remember the time when for a short period MS was forced to provide an interface (popup window), upon a fresh installation for users, to give the users the option window on which major browser they would like to install. Built-in Edge, Firefox, Chrome or Opera. Of course that didn't last long, but just like Microsoft, Apple and Google (with Chrome OS) I would jam pack it with my in-house software as well. In the end by completing the setup and pressing the agree button for terms of use etc… During initialization of the OS you technically agree to all of it.

Doesn't mean I agree to the same length as they do, but from a business perspective it's a choice anyone would make.

 

[ForgottenSeer 72227]

There are a couple of points which are/aren't related.

First is the issue of bundling software. As it's already been stated, everyone does it. Sure they could use a 3rd party option, but it doesn't make good business sense to do so. If Mozilla had a very sucessful OS, I bet every dollar I have that they would bundle Firefox with it.

As it's already been said, chrome and even Firefox have been quite successful, despite the various browsers being built in to their respective OSes. So the point that you cannot be successful in this regard is false. In order to be sucessful, you simply need to have a better product.

Secondly is the point of privacy and ethics, but again its well known that companies in general are always looking out for their bottom line. Despite all this... all the various OSes allow any user to install which ever browser they want to use. If you don't like MS, or Google, then install Firefox, etc... If these companies were preventing users from installing a browser of their choice, then that's a different story.

 

[Cortex]

I suppose you don't have to use Windows, there are alternatives? I tried installing Firefox again the other day to try & get on with it, I found it somehow clunky & didn't have a good experience & I did try. I imaged back, I thought things might be better on a new install

 

[Ink]

Edge is one of the best browsers right now, if not the best, and makes the most sense to use it because you don't need to install third party bloat. The only one that is tempting to replace it, depending on the features it gets, is Opera GX.

Microsoft Edge is the best Google Chrome-replacement.

I believe Mozilla Firefox will always remain as the Chromium-alternate.

Certain people will think you're working with the CCP, or you'll get shot down for mentioning Opera. Watch out.

 

[The_King]

There are a couple of points which are/aren't related.

First is the issue of bundling software. As it's already been stated, everyone does it. Sure they could use a 3rd party option, but it doesn't make good business sense to do so. If Mozilla had a very sucessful OS, I bet every dollar I have that they would bundle Firefox with it.

Let me fix the title of this thread to make my point crystal clear.

New Microsoft Edge grew 1,300% this year, overtaking Firefox as a result of Microsoft pushing its browser to its 1 Billion windows users!

As it's already been said, chrome and even Firefox have been quite successful, despite the various browsers being built in to their respective OSes. So the point that you cannot be successful in this regard is false. In order to be sucessful, you simply need to have a better product.

Lets look at The highly rated Brave browser. Its arguably the best privacy driven browser out and highly rated by many, even better than Edge in many cases.
Why does it only have 0.05% of the current market? Why didn't Brave overtake Firefox the way Edge did?

Because billion dollar companies like MS, Google and Apple play by a different set of rules compared to their competition

Secondly is the point of privacy and ethics, but again its well known that companies in general are always looking out for their bottom line. Despite all this... all the various OSes allow any user to install which ever browser they want to use. If you don't like MS, or Google, then install Firefox, etc... If these companies were preventing users from installing a browser of their choice, then that's a different story.

Yet again the key point Edge did not reach its market share by users installing it. It got there by MS pushing it to 1 billion windows 10 users.

 

[blackice]

Let me fix the title of this thread to make my point crystal clear.

New Microsoft Edge grew 1,300% this year, overtaking Firefox as a result of Microsoft pushing its browser to its 1 Billion windows users!

Lets look at The highly rated Brave browser. Its arguably the best privacy driven browser out and highly rated by many, even better than Edge in many cases.
Why does it only have 0.05% of the current market? Why didn't Brave overtake Firefox the way Edge did?

Because billion dollar companies like MS, Google and Apple play by a different set of rules compared to their competition


Yet again the key point Edge did not reach its market share by users installing it. It got there by MS pushing it to 1 billion windows 10 users.

I think you’ve made your point: you feel providing your own browser with your OS is anticompetitive.
I agree big businesses, in the US especially, could use more oversight. Those of us in the US can vote to that end. Personally I don’t feel it’s anticompetitive to provide a good browser installed with the OS. I definitely don’t think any company would install a competitor’s with their OS unless forced. Time will tell if it even matters. Firefox was already niche and not really gaining ground.
Edit: And I’ve always been a fan of Firefox and the underdog.

 

[Tiamati]

I won't lie. I'm using Edge and it's really really good. However, sometimes i face some pages that will render properly with Chrome and not with Edge. Don't ask me why. However, it's sad to see firefox declining. I would prefer Chrome giving room to Edge, and not Firefox

 

[F 4 E]

I find new Edge uses less memory than both Firefox and Chrome.

I still use Firefox because I want a Menu Bar, and I prefer FF's layout.

 

[samit]

I won't lie. I'm using Edge and it's really really good. However, sometimes i face some pages that will render properly with Chrome and not with Edge. Don't ask me why. However, it's sad to see firefox declining. I would prefer Chrome giving room to Edge, and not Firefox

I think rendering issues is most probably due to the built-in tracking protection of Edge browser.

 

[ForgottenSeer 72227]

Let me fix the title of this thread to make my point crystal clear.

New Microsoft Edge grew 1,300% this year, overtaking Firefox as a result of Microsoft pushing its browser to its 1 Billion windows users!

Lets look at The highly rated Brave browser. Its arguably the best privacy driven browser out and highly rated by many, even better than Edge in many cases.
Why does it only have 0.05% of the current market? Why didn't Brave overtake Firefox the way Edge did?

Because billion dollar companies like MS, Google and Apple play by a different set of rules compared to their competition


Yet again the key point Edge did not reach its market share by users installing it. It got there by MS pushing it to 1 billion windows 10 users.

Believe me I hear what you are saying and you are not entirely wrong. I do think you are missing the key point that myself and others are trying to make. No one is saying that some of the marketshare increase is not due to MS updating Windows to include it....however what we ARE saying is that MS has been shipping their own browsers with Windows for YEARS (Internet Explorer and the original Edge). This is not new....and despite this, both Firefox and Chrome (both of which are 3rd party browsers) have always had a significantly larger marketshare than any of MS own browsers to date. Why? It's very simple, both Firefox and Chrome where always far better browsers compared to IE, or the original Edge. People will always gravitate towards what works better. The main difference this time around is that MS has actually made a really good browser that people actually want to use. While you are not entirely wrong about MS updating Windows 10 to include it, you are wrong to think that it is the sole reason as to why it has taken over Firefox.

I cannot speak for the likes of Brave and Vivaldi, but my guess is that (while good bowsers) many people do not seem them to be as good, of not better than Chrome. I've tried them both and like them, but I've always went back to Chrome as it was meh experience for me. I tried MS new browser and I was like YES! and have been using it since. My guess is that many people using the new browser from MS feel the same. Believe me, if MS did a really poor job with this browser (like they traditionally do), I don't think the new Edge would have taken over Firefox's marketshare.

Don't get me wrong I really like Firefox and I too would like it to succeed, but as I've said before, Mozilla has no one to blame, but themselves for this.

 

[Local Host]

Let me fix the title of this thread to make my point crystal clear.

New Microsoft Edge grew 1,300% this year, overtaking Firefox as a result of Microsoft pushing its browser to its 1 Billion windows users!

Lets look at The highly rated Brave browser. Its arguably the best privacy driven browser out and highly rated by many, even better than Edge in many cases.
Why does it only have 0.05% of the current market? Why didn't Brave overtake Firefox the way Edge did?

Because billion dollar companies like MS, Google and Apple play by a different set of rules compared to their competition


Yet again the key point Edge did not reach its market share by users installing it. It got there by MS pushing it to 1 billion windows 10 users.

When was Brave highly rated? Even among us here that know about Brave very few are using it.

Windows having Edge by default or not, is not going to affect the market share that way, people use what they like and works for them.

And for the majorly of users that is Chrome, even Edge isn't going to change that without recommendation from people like me (most my friends and family members have already dropped Chrome for Edge).

 

[Brahman]

Its time for FF to do something drastic to get back their users, otherwise we will miss the FF in future.