I have just purchased Proton Vpn Plus,and you are right it is very good(secure core).I also have SurfEasy Ultra,PIA and EkspressVpn.
Privacy: "I have nothing to hide?" Argument (What's your say?)
- Thread starter Ink
- Start date
Can I check whether the DNS servers of your VPN providers support DNSCrypt + DNSSEC + NO logging? Are they using Google servers as their DNS servers?
Thanks
- Nov 26, 2017
- 732
To earn real (or close to it) privacy you need to sacrifice comfort and make your life harder.
If you are a Politician, Journalist, Activist, Criminal, Company etc.
Then do it! Spend a lot of money and time and make your life harder because you have to!
If you are just a regular guy/girl I think security is more important.
for example VPN is to protect yourself on a public WIFI network and not because you're a wannabe Ed Snowden (who is one of the best person ever! Fact!)
If you are a Politician, Journalist, Activist, Criminal, Company etc.
Then do it! Spend a lot of money and time and make your life harder because you have to!
If you are just a regular guy/girl I think security is more important.
for example VPN is to protect yourself on a public WIFI network and not because you're a wannabe Ed Snowden (who is one of the best person ever! Fact!)
- Jun 6, 2017
- 477
Even if you don't have any criminal activity to hide, I wouldn't want anyone looking at my Internet traffic. The same as I wouldn't want anyone reading my letters and personal correspondence.
I dont mind the government looking at my data IF it is in conmnection with a serious criminal investigation AND my data stays confidential and is then deleted at the end of their investigations.
But I am taking serious crimes here. I don't want any common policeman to be able to look at my information. That is a breech of privacy. And there are police workers who are criminals, just as there are in every other occupation you could name.
(PS- I'm pretty certain that sophisticated govenments have ways of looking at Internet activity whether you use a VPN or not. So you can't hide. But I'd like laws passed in countries to state that your data can onl;y be accessed in extreme circumstances).
I dont mind the government looking at my data IF it is in conmnection with a serious criminal investigation AND my data stays confidential and is then deleted at the end of their investigations.
But I am taking serious crimes here. I don't want any common policeman to be able to look at my information. That is a breech of privacy. And there are police workers who are criminals, just as there are in every other occupation you could name.
(PS- I'm pretty certain that sophisticated govenments have ways of looking at Internet activity whether you use a VPN or not. So you can't hide. But I'd like laws passed in countries to state that your data can onl;y be accessed in extreme circumstances).
- Nov 26, 2017
- 732
I don't have have anything to hide but that doesn't mean I want some random individual snooping through my things. Having nothing to hide and having sensitive and personal data are two completely different things.
The problem is if someone can access all of my data for "national security", what about the next individual who can access my data for the same purpose but has misinformed/unknown secondary intentions? Rogue employee's exist in every business, the government is no exception to it.
If someone has access to all your personal data:
1. They can threaten you
2. They can frame you
This isn't about data which can harm your reputation because you did something you shouldn't have. This is about general, personal and sensitive information. Would you want someone to start handing out personal photo's? Personal chat-logs about a business plan? No.
Things happen all the time. One day you could wake up and do something that causes huge change/exposure, and someone with authority might dislike it, and then start messing with you by using their clearance level as leverage to gain data they should not have really been able to have access to prior to written explicit consent.
The other issue is malicious attackers. If there's a master decryption key to encrypted data or a whole file on someone with loads of sensitive and personal information for usage by good people, it means it's technically accessible by bad people as well. Which goes back to my first point regarding rogue employees.
The truth is that police/government agencies do need data to do their job properly and it really isn't a myth. How are they supposed to stop sophisticated attacks with no preparation? They get hits off specific keywords being put into search engines, text messages, online posts... It will never be full-proof and they cannot prevent everything but it will definitely help. The problem at the same time is that the data they collect is not used to it's full potential, and it can be a bit "over the top" for civilians they already know are safe and not up to anything dangerous which could affect many people.
I think that new guidelines should come into place which follows a correct and safe procedure. What those guidelines should be I am not the one to ask. However, it should allow removal of data securely after X amount of days and collection of data which is mandatory, not random things which are personal/sensitive and would be meaningless for an actual investigation and/or stopping a dangerous scenario in real-life.
For example, did anyone here about the case against Facebook where they failed to notify authorities after someone posted on Facebook they were going to shoot someone? Facebook collect heaps amounts of data, they should have caught something like this. Especially after it was constantly reported to Facebook but it was still not reported to the authorities. This is an example of misuse of data... It isn't used to it's full potential to do good, but more about money.
I agree that government agencies/police or those in charge can use data to help us, but I feel that it should be better and as least-intrusive as possible for them to still do their job. And that data should be deleted after a certain period. For example, if I type into Google "How to make a bacon sandwich", will this be shoved onto a profile about me to indicate I am learning to cook bacon and make a sandwich with it?
Master decryption keys here and there coming from places where the sun doesn't shine will do nothing but make our data vulnerable to bad people.
In 10 years time we will still be discussing this the same as we are now.
The problem is if someone can access all of my data for "national security", what about the next individual who can access my data for the same purpose but has misinformed/unknown secondary intentions? Rogue employee's exist in every business, the government is no exception to it.
If someone has access to all your personal data:
1. They can threaten you
2. They can frame you
This isn't about data which can harm your reputation because you did something you shouldn't have. This is about general, personal and sensitive information. Would you want someone to start handing out personal photo's? Personal chat-logs about a business plan? No.
Things happen all the time. One day you could wake up and do something that causes huge change/exposure, and someone with authority might dislike it, and then start messing with you by using their clearance level as leverage to gain data they should not have really been able to have access to prior to written explicit consent.
The other issue is malicious attackers. If there's a master decryption key to encrypted data or a whole file on someone with loads of sensitive and personal information for usage by good people, it means it's technically accessible by bad people as well. Which goes back to my first point regarding rogue employees.
The truth is that police/government agencies do need data to do their job properly and it really isn't a myth. How are they supposed to stop sophisticated attacks with no preparation? They get hits off specific keywords being put into search engines, text messages, online posts... It will never be full-proof and they cannot prevent everything but it will definitely help. The problem at the same time is that the data they collect is not used to it's full potential, and it can be a bit "over the top" for civilians they already know are safe and not up to anything dangerous which could affect many people.
I think that new guidelines should come into place which follows a correct and safe procedure. What those guidelines should be I am not the one to ask. However, it should allow removal of data securely after X amount of days and collection of data which is mandatory, not random things which are personal/sensitive and would be meaningless for an actual investigation and/or stopping a dangerous scenario in real-life.
For example, did anyone here about the case against Facebook where they failed to notify authorities after someone posted on Facebook they were going to shoot someone? Facebook collect heaps amounts of data, they should have caught something like this. Especially after it was constantly reported to Facebook but it was still not reported to the authorities. This is an example of misuse of data... It isn't used to it's full potential to do good, but more about money.
I agree that government agencies/police or those in charge can use data to help us, but I feel that it should be better and as least-intrusive as possible for them to still do their job. And that data should be deleted after a certain period. For example, if I type into Google "How to make a bacon sandwich", will this be shoved onto a profile about me to indicate I am learning to cook bacon and make a sandwich with it?
Master decryption keys here and there coming from places where the sun doesn't shine will do nothing but make our data vulnerable to bad people.
In 10 years time we will still be discussing this the same as we are now.
When it comes down to general data collection though, it's gone way over the top. Services which have nothing to do with using data to make the world a better place to prevent attacks on people/national attacks, there definitely needs to be strict laws on it all.
Despite EULA / Terms & Service agreements, data collection laws should be stricter and it should be illegal to try to work-around them with "malicious" intent in my opinion.
For example, Google's tracking features when when the phone's location data collection/tracking settings are disabled... This should be eyed up as illegal in many countries and cause Google to be fined a LOT of money so they know to stop doing things like this, and change their ways.
Companies like Google, Microsoft, Yahoo, Facebook, ... data collection is just getting worse and worse. They all have so much money and high-stance in the media that they believe they can do whatever they want. They probably even think they can fly. When something happens, they get away with it one way or another. A fine for a few million dollars is meaningless, they will pay it and not care. Hell, they could spend that much for their breakfast.
Something needs to happen which forces companies to change their ways and stop trying to do shady/risky things which they get away with 24/7. But sadly nothing is going to happen because these same companies, government agencies will want to work with to use their data collection as leverage.
Despite EULA / Terms & Service agreements, data collection laws should be stricter and it should be illegal to try to work-around them with "malicious" intent in my opinion.
For example, Google's tracking features when when the phone's location data collection/tracking settings are disabled... This should be eyed up as illegal in many countries and cause Google to be fined a LOT of money so they know to stop doing things like this, and change their ways.
Companies like Google, Microsoft, Yahoo, Facebook, ... data collection is just getting worse and worse. They all have so much money and high-stance in the media that they believe they can do whatever they want. They probably even think they can fly. When something happens, they get away with it one way or another. A fine for a few million dollars is meaningless, they will pay it and not care. Hell, they could spend that much for their breakfast.
Something needs to happen which forces companies to change their ways and stop trying to do shady/risky things which they get away with 24/7. But sadly nothing is going to happen because these same companies, government agencies will want to work with to use their data collection as leverage.
- Feb 8, 2018
- 18
On my behalf I occasionally get annoyed with the response "I have nothing to hide". Once my friend said that and I responded, really? How about your beautiful designs and ideas stored on your computer, imagine someone has a gain if they no longer are at your computer. Or simply for fun deletes everything you did. It doesn't belong to them it belongs to you, its not a secret but yet it has a value for you, emotional or financial whatever. He went wide eyed and pale. ( I think his mind was in motion thinking how to backup the files 
). Anyway, and the other person that said that drinking a glass of wine sipping carelessly, said there is nothing on it. I said the same thing someone mentioned earlier than leave your doors opened you have nothing to hide. I think that person was just being brave and deep down more upset than the rest. Different people say the same thing for different reasons. Some for ignorance, some because they don't believe in it (yet they believe in unicorns), and others because they don't want to bring up the subject anyway just don't care. Apparently none had a problem as a consequence to carelessness.
). Anyway, and the other person that said that drinking a glass of wine sipping carelessly, said there is nothing on it. I said the same thing someone mentioned earlier than leave your doors opened you have nothing to hide. I think that person was just being brave and deep down more upset than the rest. Different people say the same thing for different reasons. Some for ignorance, some because they don't believe in it (yet they believe in unicorns), and others because they don't want to bring up the subject anyway just don't care. Apparently none had a problem as a consequence to carelessness.This is very important.. Someone tried to dox me and quickly found out that I have a near-zero presence on the internets. My wife, by nature of her work interacts with people in less than stellar conditions at times. Her name is exposed to them more often than not. Multiple times in the past she's had people threaten to, or try to stalk her, and they also found out that her exposure on the internets is extremely low. So there are multiple cases in which my strong assertions of privacy and security have paid off, and likely will continue to pay off.
Exposing your data exposes you to manipulation, threats, and in some cases, possible harm. It also exposes you to potential future issues.. Getting a job? Your interviewing firm pulled up where you talk about your love of weed. Insurance? The insurance company pulled up information that you like to drink and party hard, and perhaps even drive intoxicated. Health insurance? They see your photos online of your obesity, or maybe they see you smoking when you declared yourself a non-smoker? The possibilities here are unlimited.
For politicians and or relatively important people, or people that MAY become important your privacy is absolutely critical and should be your PRIMARY focus. Any information exposure can lead to you being compromised, manipulated or controlled. Worse, it could result in leaks of compromising photos and other things. Also, unscrupulous organizations like the CIA would potentially use them to control you, and help push their own deep state agendas.
'Framing' is even bigger than people can imagine. With an Israeli firm having already developed a method to forge DNA. Your photos and videos out there subjected to manipulation. Your biometrics being leaked out..All of this can go south, really rapidly.
The 'nothing to hide' argument is ridiculous. How do you know you have no valuable information? How do you know it isn't important to someone or illegal somewhere? Times change, assuming you will always have nothing to hide is reckless, even if you feel you have nothing to hide now. Also you, to a great extent, weaken the privacy protections and rights of those around you because you yourself are wide open and compromised, thus exposing people you interact with to a greater extent by the weakness of yourself.
Privacy is a right that should be aggressively asserted by all citizens or you may find that right decaying over time.
WAY over the top... Why do companies feel it is necessary or even acceptable to steal every shred of data from people using their products? It is NOT acceptable in any form. I can see data gathered during crashes, maybe. But to gather incessant, unending telemetry on every single thing? It's ridiculous and it has to stop. It really makes me want to just stop using all of it..
Can you imagine 20 years ago if you told people their TV and Phone had microphones? They'd riot in the streets and demand govt. action to curtail this. Now people WILLINGLY put listening devices in every room in their home, cameras everywhere, and accept ALL of their data going into giant unprotected buckets.. They barely think twice about it.
It's become so ridiculous that I just want to disconnect all of it and walk away. Developers are to blame as well, putting in telemetry API in everything they make. Sending everything to giant databases in open buckets. Stealing every keystroke. Ridiculous, all of it!
I was looking at NSA's web site. Looking at unclassified info, UFO's. I then decided to click it's Facebook icon at the top. Was very surprised at the Facebook page that came up. Was not sure if it was a joke or what? If you click on the Facebook icon from their main page you won't get the same Facebook page. Her I will make it easy for you. UFO Documents Index
Maslow's hierarchy. People won't question the reality they are served if they are kept from having the time for self realization and realization of the reality by lower level activities. At the base level are needs such as a roof over ones head, and food on the table. Once that is satiated people start wondering about security and safety. The reason some countries never evolved properly was they weren't able to transcend the lowest level of existence - basic needs of a roof and consistent, reliable food. Whereas in the Medieval European Countries, while they were living in Castles, with advanced farmland, fairly clean water, and other things they transcended the base needs and moved into security (Castles, Militia, etc) and even farther up the pyramid into areas of status, esteem, belonging.. While people in Africa were still scrounging around for some spare morsels of food in grass huts.
In some cases, governments, especially corrupt ones are only kept in place by consistently suppressing populations from achieving realization because that realization often comes with awareness of the lack of need of parasitical governments in the first place. So what we see is a constant agenda of 'Fear' attempting to push people back down the pyramid into the base levels of safety/security. Careful observers will note that virtually everything 'they' do is designed to keep us on the lower rungs of development. Whether this is physical - lead in gas, fluoride in water, prescription drugs, etc. Or on the security and safety level via stoking the fear and well being of people via a range of methods.. School incidents, new viruses/outbreaks, threats of terrorism and a plethora of things that attack our basic need to feel safe. Racial divisions, identity politics and other things are stoked to constantly push everyone back from a sense of belonging, a higher level pyramid level. Organizations within our govt. have been implicated in stoking division and that's not an accident.. If you really dig into it you will find religions were implicated in suppressing people down to the basic level such as adding guilt to sex, or specific conditions/limitations such as food, wealth and the right of free will.. Deep stuff, all of it runs deep and was well constructed long ago for this very purpose. In effect - to keep you busy with the basics so you never see the puppet pulling the strings.
It's all a game to the power players but once you figure out what they are doing it's easy to ignore all of their scams as they pop up, and continue on your path up the pyramid to where you finally figure it all out.
Last edited by a moderator:
If you don't want be spied upon, don't use devices/services that collect datas. If you can't, blame yourself. No one forces you to use Google or Facebook or whatever.
I dont like beer, i dont buy beer, simple as that.
I dont like beer, i dont buy beer, simple as that.
You're right, but it doesn't mean that the way some companies are tracking people/collecting data should be acceptable
It should at-least be more clear in a lot more cases. Normally you get a privacy policy/terms of service shoved down your throat, one which no one will read because of how it is worded and how long the document is.
There should be bullet-point, simple explanation to the data collection in a service. Along with better enforced laws about what data a company cannot actually ex-filtrate from a customer in the case of sensitive scenarios
Thankfully there are recent changes to laws about data collection in regards to storage. If a company in the EU has data ex-filtrated by an attacker, now they are fined a % of their yearly income.
I still think that we as customers of services should be entitled to review most or even all of the data a service has collected about us, and have the right to have it deleted at our request, no questions asked.
But thats just what I think. I guess some people don't care at all, some care more than me and some people are just neutral with it.
So we should shift the blame back on people? Should we blame accidents on skid marks on the road too?
Granted, consumers need to accept SOME responsibility, however the industry at a whole is to blame for the majority of it. It's their products, services and API's that are the issue. It's their lust for more knowledge than they need to provide a basic product or service that is to blame. Also, what resource should the consumer use to gather more data on what is more or less private than something else? This isn't always as evident as many people think. For example how many 'normal' consumers realize Dashlane sends a log of everything they do off to Ireland every few seconds but that Bit Warden has no logging at all?
Maybe we need a A, B, C, D grade for privacy pinned to every product and established by a consumer group made up of industry, consumers and privacy advocates? If people still elect a D grade product for privacy then I can see criticizing them but until then I think the industry and their excessive logging and telemetry really needs to grow up.
To illustrate why I respect companies that put privacy first - I recently had a discussion with a fairly well placed person at Bullguard. It went like this;
Me: What telemetry does Bullguard 2018 gather?
Him: None.
Me: What files does Bullguard send? Documents? Executables?
Him: None.
Me: Does Bullguard send anything at all?
Him: No, it doesn't. In fact, if we need to diagnose a problem we need you to join a remote session so we can login and look at the system itself.
Me: This explains why my PCAPS are empty.
Him: This is precisely why your PCAPS will always be empty.
Now that's privacy.. I had heard that Bullguard did absolutely no telemetry in their 2018 version and had a 1 line privacy policy in the product itself. This seems to be true. They seem to be one of the top players for privacy in AV's.. Fortinet also added the capability to turn off ALL logging/telemetry/diagnostics in their Forticlient offering rendering a completely privacy AV product as well. I would guess that right now, FortiClient and Bullguard are the two least chatty AV's out there.
Me: What telemetry does Bullguard 2018 gather?
Him: None.
Me: What files does Bullguard send? Documents? Executables?
Him: None.
Me: Does Bullguard send anything at all?
Him: No, it doesn't. In fact, if we need to diagnose a problem we need you to join a remote session so we can login and look at the system itself.
Me: This explains why my PCAPS are empty.
Him: This is precisely why your PCAPS will always be empty.
Now that's privacy.. I had heard that Bullguard did absolutely no telemetry in their 2018 version and had a 1 line privacy policy in the product itself. This seems to be true. They seem to be one of the top players for privacy in AV's.. Fortinet also added the capability to turn off ALL logging/telemetry/diagnostics in their Forticlient offering rendering a completely privacy AV product as well. I would guess that right now, FortiClient and Bullguard are the two least chatty AV's out there.
- Jan 8, 2017
- 1,320
