Russia vs Ukraine: The War

[ForgottenSeer 92963]

Chucky57? Ahh, I understand. If I choose to disagree, someone has to take it personal, and the childishness begins.

You missed a few questions of Arequire on how someone taking part in economic life in for instance the UK, could meet up to your standards to earn the right to boycot.

It was a typo Chucky57 instead of Chuck57 (which country is Chuck57 from?)

 

[Chuck57]

USA........I'm one of the right wing traitors who thinks the biggest mistake this nation ever made was electing that dementia ridden fool we're stuck with.

 

[Chuck57]

It's hardly their "comfort and convenience", is it? Here in the UK, thousands of people die every year from living in cold homes. Presumably that figure is higher in countries with larger populations. So imagine how much higher those numbers would be if people took your solution to heart and refused to heat their homes.
That's not even mentioning the abundance of gas ovens across the continent, which people would be unable to use and whom most would be unable to afford to replace with an electric alternative.

And without cars, how exactly do you expect people to earn a living or engage in the most basic daily activities? Public transport's out of the question; likely runs on Russian petrol and—by your logic—would be hypocritical to use. So work would be restricted to those with fully electric vehicles, those who can work from home, or those who able to walk or cycle to their place of employment.

The fact is you can have it both ways. The legitimacy of someone's condemnation of Russia's actions does not hinge on their ability to shun Russian products.

Where did I say everybody? "They," as in those supporting a boycott.

One more time, I'm talking about the people who are supporting boycotting Russia. If the people wanting to boycott, not everyone, are serious, find another way to heat. Same thing with cars. We in America were virtually independent of foreign oil only a year ago. Now, we bring in around 700,000 barrels a day of Russian crude. If you - not all the people in the UK or my country, just those who want to boycott Russia - are serious, ride a bike or walk.

 

[Arequire]

Where did I say everybody? "They," as in those supporting a boycott.

One more time, I'm talking about the people who are supporting boycotting Russia. If the people wanting to boycott, not everyone, are serious, find another way to heat. Same thing with cars. We in America were virtually independent of foreign oil only a year ago. Now, we bring in around 700,000 barrels a day of Russian crude. If you - not all the people in the UK or my country, just those who want to boycott Russia - are serious, ride a bike or walk.

Or, as human beings who possess free will, they can choose to use or boycott whatever they like. And neither you, me, or anybody else has any right to tell them otherwise.

 

[Chuck57]

Or, as human beings who possess free will, they can choose to use or boycott whatever they like. And neither you, me, or anybody else has any right to tell them otherwise.

That is exactly right, and it's basically what I've been saying in my posts. Except I tend to spend a paragraph or two saying what you just did in a sentence.

 

[ExecutiveOrder]

Somehow this thread number of pages is almost twice as much as the duration of the ongoing invasion (5 days). It's getting difficult to find some of the most complete, reliable, and unbiased answers. Newcomers or guests might not be able (or not wanted to read all exchanges of replies) to find the answer for the threat topic/ title at all.

 

[ForgottenSeer 93475]

@Chuck57​

I guess they don't want to understand what you're saying and I'll go so far as to say that they might consider you as Russia or as a friend of Putin

Or they just want this topic to be like most of the tweets, posts on Twitter, Facebook and Reddit where everyone attacks Russia without distinguishing between Putin and the Russian who screams no to invasion
They are telling you with a clear message that you cannot be neutral only Russia or Ukraine!!

 

[Chuck57]

@Chuck57​

I guess they don't want to understand what you're saying and I'll go so far as to say that they might consider you as Russia or as a friend of Putin

Or they just want this topic to be like most of the tweets, posts on Twitter, Facebook and Reddit where everyone attacks Russia without distinguishing between Putin and the Russian who screams no to invasion
They are telling you with a clear message that you cannot be neutral only Russia or Ukraine!!

I've noticed, and that isn't going to happen. I'm sitting back, watching and waiting, because I can't help think something else is going on. Has anyone taken a look at Putin lately? He looks bloated, puffy.. He's known to have back issues. Steroids? Using steroids can affect one mentally, depending on the type, and his actions are radically differnt than just six months ago. And, no I'm not a doctor.

 

[ForgottenSeer 93475]

I've noticed, and that isn't going to happen. I'm sitting back, watching and waiting, because I can't help think something else is going on. Has anyone taken a look at Putin lately? He looks bloated, puffy.. He's known to have back issues. Steroids? Using steroids can affect one mentally, depending on the type, and his actions are radically differnt than just six months ago. And, no I'm not a doctor.

Putin is a Russian intelligence man, and no one knows how he or those people there think, and I don't think he takes decisions out of his head, as is said in America and Europe.
But what I know is that the simple Russian people have nothing to do with what Putin is doing in Ukraine, just as the American people have nothing to do with American foreign policy or Trump’s support for Putin, describing him as smart.
Although I hated politics very much, I am forced to speak about it here, so I say we want to stay away from politics, as it is the real enemy of humanity and the cause of human misery.

 

[Chuck57]

Putin is a Russian intelligence man, and no one knows how he or those people there think, and I don't think he takes decisions out of his head, as is said in America and Europe.
But what I know is that the simple Russian people have nothing to do with what Putin is doing in Ukraine, just as the American people have nothing to do with American foreign policy or Trump’s support for Putin, describing him as smart.
Although I hated politics very much, I am forced to speak about it here, so I say we want to stay away from politics, as it is the real enemy of humanity and the cause of human misery.

Politics and politicians have caused more death and destruction in the world in the past many thousands of years than any other factor. It's very easy to forget that our so-called 'leaders' are just people, no different than us. Being elected to an office does not make them suddenly superior to the rest of us. In fact, I'd say many of them here in the USA and in most other countries are the worst of us.

Any person who goes into politics is someone who can't cut it in the real world, so runs for office. Once in office, they can get rich from corruption - and get away with it - something they can't do in private life.

Finally........ here's what I think. I don't remember who said it. Thomas Jefferson or John Locke....... that government is best which governs least.

 

[Zorro]

If so, where is the source? I'll be happy to look at any reliable sources you have.

Many countries have extreme elements, even the U.S. We are a democracy controlled by a corporate elite but nothing like Putin's neo-fascist oligarchical state.

In private messages, I can give you links to journalistic investigations on some of the events I have indicated. Of course, you can say that this is all "Russian propaganda", but then you can say that "American propaganda" is working in America as well. You will have the opportunity to compare stories from Russia with what is shown in the US, and draw your own conclusion about what to believe. Yesterday I watched the BBC, and I can also compare. I can give you links in private messages, if you are interested, then write to me in private messages.

 

[Kiss]

Somehow this thread number of pages is almost twice as much as the duration of the ongoing invasion (5 days). It's getting difficult to find some of the most complete, reliable, and unbiased answers. Newcomers or guests might not be able (or not wanted to read all exchanges of replies) to find the answer for the threat topic/ title at all.

Users with pictures of guns should be banned, it's a lack of respect and empathy for victims all over the world to use a picture of something that was done to take lives.

 

[ForgottenSeer 93475]

Politics and politicians have caused more death and destruction in the world in the past many thousands of years than any other factor. It's very easy to forget that our so-called 'leaders' are just people, no different than us. Being elected to an office does not make them suddenly superior to the rest of us. In fact, I'd say many of them here in the USA and in most other countries are the worst of us.

Any person who goes into politics is someone who can't cut it in the real world, so runs for office. Once in office, they can get rich from corruption - and get away with it - something they can't do in private life.

Finally........ here's what I think. I don't remember who said it. Thomas Jefferson or John Locke....... that government is best which governs least.

Wonderful words that people here need to understand, but I doubt that without leaving, even if temporarily, the communication sites and news sites that wash the brain well

 

[Chuck57]

Wonderful words that people here need to understand, but I doubt that without leaving, even if temporarily, the communication sites and news sites that wash the brain well

I read a couple of American news sites, then find English language sites in Europe and try to find others elsewhere. THEN, I take a little of this site, some of that site, a portion of the other and try to sift through the propaganda and find the truth.

If all the news agencies mention a basic incident then we can figure it happened. The circumstances of how it happened, the results of it happening, and who made it happen are where the lies are told by the media in an attempt to sway our thinking.

 

[Digmor Crusher]

In private messages, I can give you links to journalistic investigations on some of the events I have indicated. Of course, you can say that this is all "Russian propaganda", but then you can say that "American propaganda" is working in America as well. You will have the opportunity to compare stories from Russia with what is shown in the US, and draw your own conclusion about what to believe. Yesterday I watched the BBC, and I can also compare. I can give you links in private messages, if you are interested, then write to me in private messages.

Maybe, but depends where you get your info from. We know that Putin is controlling the message from the Russian media so I would he hesitant to believe a lot of what they are saying. Was the BBC coverage much different from what you are seeing there?

 

[vonvon]

This war in Europe is a crime. This will lead to the economic ruin of a great country (Russia), probably the semi-destruction of another, (Ukraine). On the other hand, this war provokes a new European unity and will lead to rapid rearmament (Germany etc.) and perhaps an enlargement of NATO to Sweden and Finland. All this for a better and freer world? I have a doubt...
Between conspirators, nationalists, imperialists and megalomaniacs, many innocent people still have a lot to suffer.

 

[ichito]

It is funny that I found this by chance, as the author of the main topic says (Don't trust the Russians)
The Russians would not have invaded Ukraine in 2020


View attachment 264689

Yes, you are right. It was not on 2020 but much earlier. In 2014 Russia made anexation of Crimea and Donbas.

 

[ForgottenSeer 93475]

I read a couple of American news sites, then find English language sites in Europe and try to find others elsewhere. THEN, I take a little of this site, some of that site, a portion of the other and try to sift through the propaganda and find the truth.

If all the news agencies mention a basic incident then we can figure it happened. The circumstances of how it happened, the results of it happening, and who made it happen are where the lies are told by the media in an attempt to sway our thinking.

The bad news here is that you will never find the truth, everyone seems to be honest while the opposite may be true
Therefore, I do not want to expose myself to this trouble and make my mind a toy in the hands of others who direct me to what they want and then lead me to a stage where I am convinced that what they say is correct even if it is actually wrong

 

[Chuck57]

The bad news here is that you will never find the truth, everyone seems to be honest while the opposite may be true
Therefore, I do not want to expose myself to this trouble and make my mind a toy in the hands of others who direct me to what they want and then lead me to a stage where I am convinced that what they say is correct even if it is actually wrong

Once upon a time news reporters gave you the news. Period. Now, they all want to be what they call 'journalists,' and they want to tell you the news and how you should think. When the Ukraine thing started, I read about 'blood drenched civilians in the streets,' 'slaughtered children,' and on and on. By the time I finished the first paragraph of the story I could tell the intent was for me to be outraged. That is one way they work. The other is by lying. And they're the same all over the world.

 

[ForgottenSeer 93475]

I disagree with your opinion, but I respect it.

Everything is interconnected, whether we like it or not, most things today have an impact on others (some more, some less).

I can't say that Eugene Kaspersky will/or is supporting Putin, but it is a complex situation in a country that is not as open as others and at any moment Putin can demand that companies do something for him, and I doubt that if it happened , they would reject it because of the consequences that could occur.

This topic is also not tied only to Eugene Kaspersky but to the product developed by him and his team, if a large portion of users begin to migrate to other products, obviously the level of antivirus protection should fall even minimally, this is one of my concerns.

I like Kaspersky a lot and I confess that it is hard to stop using the product and adapt to others, it is not an easy task

I am still in doubt whether to continue with Kaspersky or migrate to Bitdefender.

I appreciate your words very much. You have shown me through your responses how much you respect . I also disagree with your opinion only and I respect you.
I understand very well what you said about interconnected but this interconnected may not be understood by everyone in the same way

This principle is generated in me by imagining myself bearing the responsibility for a bad thing done by those around me or those close to me This principle is generated by me by imagining myself taking responsibility for a bad thing done by those around me or those close to me If I reject this for myself why do I accept it for others ?

I have the same fears that you have about the quality of the product being affected, and I may have the same comfort that you feel with Kaspersky and I do not find it in others, or perhaps because I have not tried other products such as Kaspersky
In the end, you only have to do what you see fit