Problem Shoud I Invest on new Cpu or Laptop??

Faybert

Level 22
AV-Tester
Joined
Jan 8, 2017
Messages
1,119
OS
Windows 10
Antivirus
G Data
#41
I thought this was funny. I grabbed this machine from one of my techs today. (I work at a larger managed IT services firm - MSP) UTM Firewall on the network, paid, well rated AV on the desktops. Domain environment with restricts, AD, Radius, managed updates/patching, updated firmware, no Java or other junk installed.. Simple average joe that uses the computer daily for general browsing, quickbooks, etc. Chrome with uBlock as the browser. Nothing else. "odds are greatly in their favor they they can run for years and years unscathed by badguys".. Nope.

Would you look at that? Would you! That's after EEK, Zemana and ADW Cleaner have already been executed and allowed to perform removals.

EEK, Zemana and ADWCleaner have not detected these pests?
 

Slyguy

Level 35
Joined
Jan 27, 2017
Messages
2,434
OS
Other OS
#43
EEK, Zemana and ADWCleaner have not detected these pests?
Zemana found 12. ADWcleaner had 2 pages of crap found/removed. EEK found a few but not all. I'm running through the rotations. Right now Combofix is finishing up since it is a Win7 box. It's going to be a long removal process and some manual work. I'd prefer to wipe it but not always an option in a corporate environment for a variety of reasons.
 

Faybert

Level 22
AV-Tester
Joined
Jan 8, 2017
Messages
1,119
OS
Windows 10
Antivirus
G Data
#45
Zemana found 12. ADWcleaner had 2 pages of crap found/removed. EEK found a few but not all. I'm running through the rotations. Right now Combofix is finishing up since it is a Win7 box. It's going to be a long removal process and some manual work. I'd prefer to wipe it but not always an option in a corporate environment for a variety of reasons.
After you finish everything, tell us the results, for kindness (y)
 
Joined
Mar 2, 2017
Messages
245
OS
Windows 10
Antivirus
Microsoft
#47
Would you look at that? Would you!
Not sure what you are trying to tell us but obviously, that system was not left at the defaults. It is also not W10 which is what I was specifically talking about. W7 is already nearly 9 years old. So more FUD that has nothing to do with the OP's question. :(
 
Likes: roger_m

askalan

Level 12
AV-Tester
Joined
Jul 27, 2017
Messages
574
OS
Arch Linux
Antivirus
Isolation
#48
I'm disappointed in everyone who supports Chromebooks. Own data and privacy obviously do not play a role in this forum. Safety is your top priority.
A Chromebook is cloud-based. If someone has your login data, your data is not safe in Google Drive. Your location data and e-mail anyway not. A Chromebook does not protect against phishing sites. Windows does not protect against malicious e-mail attachments. You should use an operating system that is flexible and that is Windows and not Chrome OS.
 

Slyguy

Level 35
Joined
Jan 27, 2017
Messages
2,434
OS
Other OS
#51
I'm disappointed in everyone who supports Chromebooks. Own data and privacy obviously do not play a role in this forum. Safety is your top priority.
A Chromebook is cloud-based. If someone has your login data, your data is not safe in Google Drive. Your location data and e-mail anyway not. A Chromebook does not protect against phishing sites. Windows does not protect against malicious e-mail attachments. You should use an operating system that is flexible and that is Windows and not Chrome OS.
1) Many security gurus, IT engineers and infosec experts recommend Chromebook these days. (including some of the highly regarded folks on this forum) Sorry they disappoint you.
2) Chromebook isn't entirely cloud based. The OS (Gentoo based Linux, heavily engineered) is installed locally. Apps (including Googleplay apps) are installed locally. Most newer ones come with 32-64GB mSATA's. Increasingly, they're less and less cloud based for many things.
3) If someone has your login data with ANYTHING you are toast. If you consider 'your logins and passwords' an attack vector then you should consider your wallet an attack vector and stop carrying one.
4) Google by default has extensive self-protection for your login information. SMS to your phone asking 'if that was you', ingrained Geo-Location blocking (aka, a Chinese guy will be stopped at the door if you are a Chromebook guy in Milwaukee). That's assuming you don't enable TFA! Hardly an open attack vector.
5) A Chromebook (Chromes) default 'unsafe site' does include phishing protection. Any extensions you add to increase this protection are also available.

Realistically, there are only a tiny handful of attack vectors with Chromebook. It's not 'zero' but it is as close to near-zero as we have available.

1) At a minimum, a hostile page can still try to lock up your browser and leave it stuck on a demand that you pay up. As a Google notes, you can escape that by resetting the Chromebook. (20 seconds, Powerwash)
2) Page hijacking can also present the user with a prompt to install a risky third-party extension. Resetting the browser will fix this as will a 20 second powerwash. Assuming you allow it to get past the non-authorized extension prompts and install the off-repository extension in the first place!
3) Adware type Googleplay Apps that sneak past Play Protect and you happen upon them (a rarity). But again, a Powerwash or simply uninstalling the App will fix that. That's also assuming you even install or use Android Apps on it, many disable this.
4) Phishing. This vector is really about using your noggin and not putting your information into fake sites that happened to squeek past Unsafe-Site system. Generally not an attack vector but a stupid factor.

So the attack vector is near-zero, but not zero. In comparison to Windows, it's nearly immeasurably lower, probably by a factor of 1000 or something. EDU environment has largely transitioned to Chromebooks (60%+) because it drops IT Costs significantly, and locks their networks down from untold millions of monsters lurking out there for Windows.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jun 10, 2017
Messages
222
OS
Windows 10
Antivirus
Avira
#52
Since it will probably be a couple years before reliable, effective, new CPU designs hit the pipeline, I think I will pass on any hardware purchases for now...
 

Slyguy

Level 35
Joined
Jan 27, 2017
Messages
2,434
OS
Other OS
#53
Since it will probably be a couple years before reliable, effective, new CPU designs hit the pipeline, I think I will pass on any hardware purchases for now...
I'd wait unless you have a pressing need, such as if your PC is already too slow or struggling in games or something.
 
Joined
Jun 10, 2017
Messages
222
OS
Windows 10
Antivirus
Avira
#55
Would the new CPUs from AMD that coming out later this year be affected at all?
Consider that it probably takes a few years to design and manufacture a new CPU, the ones in the current pipeline for release this year will probably not have had the opportunity for permanent design changes to eliminate the recently disclosed flaw, and will probably remain dependent on workaounds or band-aids for the near future... :oops:
 

Slyguy

Level 35
Joined
Jan 27, 2017
Messages
2,434
OS
Other OS
#57
Consider that it probably takes a few years to design and manufacture a new CPU, the ones in the current pipeline for release this year will probably not have had the opportunity for permanent design changes to eliminate the recently disclosed flaw, and will probably remain dependent on workaounds or band-aids for the near future... :oops:
Agreed, this, previous and likely the upcoming CPU development cycles will me BANDAID WORLD.

AWS main datacenter guy says he doesn't expect any of this to be fully resolved for close to 5 years. :eek:
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jun 6, 2017
Messages
143
OS
Other OS
Antivirus
Norton
#58
What about circumstances where a Windows PC is more than 3 or 4 years old and the manufacturer is not issuing any patches to address the Intel security flaws ? Would the patches to Windows 10 and browsers alone be enough to protect the average user ? Or would the advice be to update to a more modern PC right away ? Thoughts and comments appreciated.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Mar 2, 2017
Messages
245
OS
Windows 10
Antivirus
Microsoft
#59
Would the patches to Windows 10 and browsers alone be enough to protect the average user ?
The average user is not running VMs on their computer. Therefore, these flaws are not likely to affect the average user. So there is no need for him or her to replace their hardware at this time. Just make sure the OS is updated, as is their security and, regardless the OS, don't be click-happy on unsolicited links, downloads, attachments and popups.
*****

As always, it is important to take what fanatics, biased people and salespeople say with a big hunk of rock salt. Are Chromebooks subject to Meltdown and Spectre vulnerabilities? Absolutely! Are Chromebooks immune from such attacks? Of course not! Why? Because Chromebooks use these very same processors too! And don't forget, the Chrome OS uses the Linux kernel. It may be forked (modified), but the kernel is very much Linux, which is not immune either.

Don't forget what Meltdown and Spectre do. They do NOT destroy your data or corrupt your operating system. They steal your data. IF (and that same "if" applies to all operating systems) a hacker can somehow get past all your security measures, Chrome will not stop your data from being stolen.

Is Chromebook as big a target as Windows or Mac OS devices? No. Why? In part because in comparison very few people use Chromebooks. Why? Because Chromebooks are very limited in their capabilities. If you need a productivity machine, a gaming machine, a file management machine, a media playback machine, a photo and video editing machine, if you value choices in hardware options, if you value browser options, and much much more, don't get a Chromebook.

And if you are worried about your privacy, don't get a Chromebook! That's right! Google is much more a privacy threat than Microsoft or Windows 10 any day of the week. And local storage for personal data files are very limited with Chromebooks.To suggest Chromebooks don't need to rely on the cloud is pure marketing hype from our Chromebook salesman in this thread. And contrary to what many want us to believe, sensitive data stored in the cloud is not immune from hacking. And of course, to access it, you must have Internet access.

While it is true (in the US, not globally) Chromebook market share in the EDU environment dominates But left out of that claim is the important fact that is for grades K-12. Not universities where much more demanding computer tasks are performed. Globally, Chromebooks have less than 10% of the total marketshare! Also left out of the claim is the major reason, and that is cost. Chromebooks are cheap with many offerings under $200 - a major consideration for parents of K-12 kids, and school districts.

Another "HUGE" reason Chromebooks are often preferred in the K-12 environment is simply because they lack flexibility! They are so locked down (by design!) that whiz-kids can't dink with them and break them. That makes it much easier for school IT people and parents to ensure their kids still have usable computers. And that IS a good thing, for kids.

But think about that for a second. Why don't so many people like Macs? It is because Apple controls nearly everything about them. What is one of the biggest complaints about Windows 10? It is that Microsoft has removed so many options we used to have to change how Windows works, looks and feels. Look at Windows Update. Contrary to what many Microsoft bashers and FUD spewers want us to believe, Windows Update is a very reliable and robust update feature. It has worked flawlessly consistently for 100s of millions of users. Is it perfect? Of course not. But the fact is, very few people have problems. They just are very vocal and those complaints are relentlessly amplified with exaggerated headlines by those biased bashers, and wannabe attention seeking journalists and bloggers.

The Chromebooks lack of flexibility may certainly be a plus for many and I fully understand and appreciate that. But that same lack of flexibility is a huge minus and limiting factor for many others.

So while this thread's Chromebook barker tries to convince everyone the Chromebook is our panacea for all the world's security woes, don't believe it for a second. Chromebook processors are dominated by the very same vulnerable Intel processors as used by other platforms. And contrary to the hype presented, Windows 10 can indeed, easily be secured with very little user effort. Will W10 stop in their tracks a determined bad guy specifically targeting you? Of course not. But neither will a Chromebook.

So now that all this Chromebook marketing hype has been debunked, lets get off this Chromebook marketing promotion and Windows FUD spewing and back to the subject at hand - which is the "hardware" issue of these processors which are used in all sorts of products, including Apple, Android, Windows, Linux and Chromebook devices.
 

Slyguy

Level 35
Joined
Jan 27, 2017
Messages
2,434
OS
Other OS
#60
The average user is not running VMs on their computer.
You clearly don't understand anything about Meltdown and Spectre, do you? VM's aren't the least of the worries, and yes, the average user could quite easily be impacted by it because it's a kernal/user space issue that impacts the privacy and security of an entire system.

As always, it is important to take what fanatics, biased people and salespeople say with a big hunk of rock salt.
It's also crucial to not take what charlatans say to heart. Some people are those 'old guy' IT dudes, they think nothing evolves and their old tactics are still valid today. They run around fixing PC's for grandparents and get worshipped by average Joes that know 'just a bit less' than they do but seem like geniuses. We run into these guys a lot, they are annoying, they cause more harm than good. They're a dying breed that has no business in IT.

Are Chromebooks subject to Meltdown and Spectre vulnerabilities? Absolutely! Are Chromebooks immune from such attacks?
Actually, they aren't. A huge percentage of Chromebooks don't even use Intel but the list of vulnerable CB's is very very tiny because Linux already patched their Kernal and some of the popular CB chipsets were never vulnerable. It would be pretty rare for anyone to have a vulnerable CB right now. Also, Intel isn't a big player in CB market because it's well understood that Intel suffers when running Android Apps, while other chipsets are much speedier.

Is Chromebook as big a target as Windows or Mac OS devices? No. Why? In part because in comparison very few people use Chromebooks. Why? Because Chromebooks are very limited in their capabilities. If you need a productivity machine, a gaming machine, a file management machine, a media playback machine, a photo and video editing machine, if you value choices in hardware options, if you value browser options, and much much more, don't get a Chromebook.
Haven't played with a Chromebook I see... I won't even bother to address this individually other than to say it's mostly hogwash.

And if you are worried about your privacy, don't get a Chromebook! That's right! Google is much more a privacy threat than Microsoft or Windows 10 any day of the week.
Again, no experience with a Chromebook I see.. For one, Chromebook has extremely limited telemetry and virtually no logging if you select the checkbox and uncheck 'Help Google with this OS' when you first run it or after each powerwash. I know, I spent several days collecting outbound activity from a brand new CB into a SIEM. It's a very very quiet OS. That quietness itself helps reduce the threat surface of it. I don't even need to address Windows Telemetry, Logging, Keylogging, Spying, that's why there are 30 tools and batch files out there to 'try' and address that...

And local storage for personal data files are very limited with Chromebooks.
Actually, storing in the cloud is optional. No experience with CB's I see? Each file/folder has the option to store locally and/or in the cloud. Your choice.

The reason some of the best and brightest recommend Chromebooks are because of very valid reasons relating to threat surface, attack vectors and vulnerabilities. There is no expert in the world that disputes that fact - none. Since Chromebooks are a distributed opensource OS nobody profits by recommending it. It's nothing knew that Windows is the most insecure OS in the world, that's old news. It's also the only OS in the world that needs security products like antivirus software. This is for a reason, it's largely a spaghetti code kludge OS designed with security as an afterthought.

Bill, please don't take all of this personally, we're just dealing with facts here. You are Bill Bright from Wilders right? The legendary troll?
 
Likes: Umbra
Forgot your password?