- Dec 23, 2014
- 8,510
Let's do not forget that H_C requires an experienced user to configure and occasionally help inexperienced users (if their computers are configured with the H_C setup).
Why are we even messing with anything other than WD these days?
- Thread starter ncage
- Start date
Please provide comments and solutions that are helpful to the author of this topic.
truefacts
Level 1
- Jun 9, 2020
- 12
Let's do not forget that H_C requires an experienced user to configure and occasionally help inexperienced users (if their computers are configured with the H_C setup).
That fact does not diminish the truth that WD is immensely popular nowadays in the market. Most people do not use Hard_Configurator.
- Dec 23, 2014
- 8,510
Yes, that is why Hard_Configurator is not a good example which could be used to prove that people do not need to use 3rd party security programs. This could be true only for advanced users, especially when they use H_C to protect the computers of average users (family, friends, etc.).
- Dec 23, 2014
- 8,510
I have the impression that all discussions about WD generally repeat similar arguments and misunderstandings that were already presented several times. See for example the summary thread about WD:
malwaretips.com
The only difference is the increasing popularity of WD and constant good results in AV real-world tests.
For several reasons, WD free on default settings cannot be compared with commercial AVs. But, it can be used as a base of very good Windows built-in security in the home environment, like for example:
WD (ConfigureDefender HIGH preset) + Edge Chromium + good Email Service Provider (Outlook, Gmail, etc.) + ...
In fact, the most important security is related to the web browser and email protection. For example, many email providers allow unsafe email attachments (like executables and scripts), that are not allowed by Gmail or Outlook online services.
The truth about Windows Defender on Windows 10 (Home & Pro).
I noticed on many MT threads, that one post about Windows Defender (WD) can start the long discussion about its cons and pros. The discussion is usually off topic and simply bloats the particular thread. So, I thought that it might be more fruitful to open the separate thread for such...
malwaretips.com
The only difference is the increasing popularity of WD and constant good results in AV real-world tests.
For several reasons, WD free on default settings cannot be compared with commercial AVs. But, it can be used as a base of very good Windows built-in security in the home environment, like for example:
WD (ConfigureDefender HIGH preset) + Edge Chromium + good Email Service Provider (Outlook, Gmail, etc.) + ...
In fact, the most important security is related to the web browser and email protection. For example, many email providers allow unsafe email attachments (like executables and scripts), that are not allowed by Gmail or Outlook online services.
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- Dec 12, 2013
- 542
Transformation of quantity into quality works actualy only in marxism philosophy...in context of our topic it doesn't takes effect.
Although no...it could have good effect when we would talk about number of complains that are sent to developer...this could affect on better for users development and service.
- Dec 23, 2014
- 8,510
Ha, ha. It works well in many areas when the selection is important (for example in the horse breeding):
quantity ---> selection ---> quality
- Dec 23, 2014
- 8,510
Unfortunately, most discussions about WD are not especially useful and usually misguiding because of imprecise questions and answers. For example, if one would ask if WD is a good AV I could defend both Yes and No answers (for several reasons). The same is about WD performance and detection.
Many people show the test results to prove something, but most of them do not understand the test results and testing procedures. For example, there are big differences between AV-Comparatives Real-world tests and AV-Comparatives Malware tests. In many cases, the testing procedures make a comparison of the results impossible.
There is no simple answer to the OP question, because people perform different activities in a different way with different habits on different hardware with different software ....
The important pros of WD are probably as follows:
WD free (default settings) can be used by any user, even if the user does not know what is an antivirus.
WD is most compatible with Windows among all AVs (although not ideal).
WD free (default settings) on updated Windows 10 with updated software can be used together with Edge web browser as:
If one tried WD and did not like it, then changing it to another good AV would be a natural and justified decision.
Many people show the test results to prove something, but most of them do not understand the test results and testing procedures. For example, there are big differences between AV-Comparatives Real-world tests and AV-Comparatives Malware tests. In many cases, the testing procedures make a comparison of the results impossible.
There is no simple answer to the OP question, because people perform different activities in a different way with different habits on different hardware with different software ....
The important pros of WD are probably as follows:
WD free (default settings) can be used by any user, even if the user does not know what is an antivirus.
WD is most compatible with Windows among all AVs (although not ideal).
WD free (default settings) on updated Windows 10 with updated software can be used together with Edge web browser as:
- a base of good security in the home environment,
- a replacement for another free AV,
If one tried WD and did not like it, then changing it to another good AV would be a natural and justified decision.
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- Apr 24, 2016
- 7,249
If you add Microsoft 365 you get 1TB OneDrive with ransomware protection.
- Apr 1, 2019
- 2,868
Microsoft 365 is actually a pretty good value these days.
- Apr 1, 2019
- 2,868
I believe it is very telling that the person here who is the most knowledgeable about WD, and built-in protections, is the most dispassionate voice of reason.
- Dec 23, 2014
- 8,510
No excitement is normal for a retired man.
truefacts
Level 1
- Jun 9, 2020
- 12
The number 1 reason people state that they use Hard_Configurator is because they want to use W10 WD. So, yes, the incidence of Hard_Configurator use here is a direct measure of W10 WD popularity. The fact that non-advanced users need help using Hard_Configurator is irrelevant when all those users are using W10 WD anyway.
I never said that W10 WD will be all things to all people. Yet at the same time the fact remains that people do not need to install 3rd party security software in the vast majority of typical use cases.
Nobody is going to write a 10 page post so as to explain all the meaning, intent and specifics about what they are really saying.
When I say nobody needs 3rd party programs I am talking ONLY about W10 WD on the latest build of W10 that is fully updated every single time there is a Windows Update for W10 using the regular update channel on hardware from the past 4 years. This is Microsoft's official policy about Windows and its features. This is what the vast majority of W10 users do. They do not use W7 and XP on ancient hardware. Every single Microsoft Security blog post applies to the most current iteration of Windows. So my statements are quite accurate.
My discussion includes no usage on W8.1, W8 or W7, because all of which are no longer supported and Microsoft is not going to release any performance updates on those Windows versions. Any discussion of those OS versions and legacy hardware is irrelevant. Just because people continue to use it does not mean that Microsoft needs to do anything. They're all EOL or soon to be EOL with no support.
Plus any discussion whatsoever of WD resource problems on Intel Pentium 2 GB RAM is not relevant. Microsoft does not support such old hardware nowadays. Nobody, not even Kapsersky and Bitdefender, go out of their way to support ancient technology.
Microsoft has been clear for over 10 years about it not supporting or EOL W8 series and W7.
Microsoft has been very clear that WD is a freeware "as is" software. Yet people keep comparing WD to paid 3rd party solutions (and lab tests that anything but a fair comparison) with a sales revenue supported development. The labs continue to test W7 because large sections of the world populace refuse to upgrade to W10. That's their problem and pointing the finger at Microsoft is just plain wrong.
Just because Microsoft is a trillion dollar company does not mean it should try to accommodate everyone. If it did, it would not be a trillion dollar company for very long. People that complain about WD are typically in that group that does not pay for anything. Plus, they do things that cause their own problems with WD because they just don't want to change so that WD experience is better. Therefore, it creates a confluence of circumstances that they use to bash WD.
I stand by the facts which are that most people nowadays use W10. They also use WD. Most never get an infection. Most do not do the things that make for a better WD experience.
There is nothing misleading about any of this.
To summerize all posts: an endless game of tug of war.
- Dec 23, 2014
- 8,510
@truefacts,
You do not need to refer to my post
https://malwaretips.com/threads/why...ng-other-than-wd-these-days.93326/post-889492
and explain your position.
This post was not intended to discuss any of your posts. When I want to discuss the statements of the concrete poster, I use the Reply feature or mention the poster directly.
Furthermore, I do not say that your statements are wrong (or even controversial), but only that one of them (about the H_C) can be easily misinterpreted without your fault.
You do not need to refer to my post
https://malwaretips.com/threads/why...ng-other-than-wd-these-days.93326/post-889492
and explain your position.
This post was not intended to discuss any of your posts. When I want to discuss the statements of the concrete poster, I use the Reply feature or mention the poster directly.
Furthermore, I do not say that your statements are wrong (or even controversial), but only that one of them (about the H_C) can be easily misinterpreted without your fault.
- Aug 4, 2016
- 1,465
@ truefacts: Most people on product forums go there when they have in issues:
It's not usual for users of a product whatever it is to go to help & say I'm having a jolly good time with x product, they go only if having issues (same with hospitals, dentists etc) -As for searching the internet, fair enough but after starting with windows 3.0 I've also come up with my own opinions, I'm not going to delete my opinions based on tens of thousands of hours using PC's, building them, others opinions, maintaining more than I can even remember to find people who have badly if even configured PC's/networks who have a single issue - If you wish to fair enough - My opinions stand until I find good reason to change which I often do but not today
(I'm always very wary when I hear the word 'experts')
It's not usual for users of a product whatever it is to go to help & say I'm having a jolly good time with x product, they go only if having issues (same with hospitals, dentists etc) -As for searching the internet, fair enough but after starting with windows 3.0 I've also come up with my own opinions, I'm not going to delete my opinions based on tens of thousands of hours using PC's, building them, others opinions, maintaining more than I can even remember to find people who have badly if even configured PC's/networks who have a single issue - If you wish to fair enough - My opinions stand until I find good reason to change which I often do but not today
(I'm always very wary when I hear the word 'experts')
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They are the true cold hard facts, experts know everything about security. /s
Bonorex
Level 1
- Jun 12, 2020
- 39
I guess there are two main reasons why somebody still prefers messing with AV solutions other than WD:
1) Windows 10 is installed only on 53% of PCs
2) WD still can't compete with professional AV solutions, when it comes to online banking.
Have a look at the latest MRG Effitas tests. (May 2020):
https://www.mrg-effitas.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/2020_OBQ1_v1.pdf
WD and TrendMicro are the only programs to have failed the Botnet test (8 other solutions passed it). At the end, only 6 products received the online banking certification and WD is not among them. Since I sometimes do online transactions on my PC, I would never trust WD. I feel much safer using Kaspersky, ESET or Bitdefender internet security solutions that include the secured browser option.
WD is programmed to give good results in some tests like VB100 and AV comparatives, but can't be used for serious stuff.
1) Windows 10 is installed only on 53% of PCs
2) WD still can't compete with professional AV solutions, when it comes to online banking.
Have a look at the latest MRG Effitas tests. (May 2020):
https://www.mrg-effitas.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/2020_OBQ1_v1.pdf
WD and TrendMicro are the only programs to have failed the Botnet test (8 other solutions passed it). At the end, only 6 products received the online banking certification and WD is not among them. Since I sometimes do online transactions on my PC, I would never trust WD. I feel much safer using Kaspersky, ESET or Bitdefender internet security solutions that include the secured browser option.
WD is programmed to give good results in some tests like VB100 and AV comparatives, but can't be used for serious stuff.
- Dec 23, 2014
- 8,510
Although using commercial AV with Banking Protection is a simple and effective solution, there are some probably better solutions (not free) that can include WD.
There are mobile apps available for some Banks in Microsoft Store. Many people use mobile banking apps on tablets or smartphones. On Windows 10 Pro, one can also use the Edge Application Guard.
The commercial AVs can be a better solution if one needs more features and services like Banking Protection, VPN, Password Manager, Cloud Storage, Help Assistance, etc. One could buy them separately to use with WD, but the cost of it would be greater than buying a good commercial AV with a family license.
Post edited.
I have checked that Heimdal products, turn off real-time WD (one can use it only for offline scans).
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Bonorex
Level 1
- Jun 12, 2020
- 39
Maybe adding other programs to WD could be a more secure way of protecting the PC than a single AV, but the question of the thread was "Why are we even messing with anything other than WD these days". If I should choose only one security program, that would never be WD. I also do not know how heavy a combo WD + Heimdal Thor would be, but I know for sure that Kaspersky and ESET are both extremely light on my system and tests seem to prove that they would both protect me during my online transactions. As a matter of fact, I used them both in the past and never in their full featured versions. I don't need another VPN or some useless optimization tools, but a secured web browser is a must on my PC. When it comes to the costs, Kaspersky (KIS) is quite cheap here in Europe (18 €/3 PCs/1year) and I find this solution to be perfect for carrying out any task on my computer, with no impact on my PC's performance.
I'm also not concerned that much regarding botnet attacks, I was just pointing out that WD was one of the rare programs to fail the test.
- Mar 16, 2019
- 3,862
Out of curiosity, do you use any additional software for banking transactions?
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