App Review Cylance (old and new) vs. Signature-based AV (in an offline test) with fresh malware and ransomware

[509322]

I better get out of here then so I don't locked into this Cylance thread!

I just think it proves my points over and over. That anyone who really calls out the BS that happens, then it immediately leads to personal and product attacks. And, for whatever reasons, these "NextGen" Ai\ML products seem to be magnets for others lashing out.

Anyone can verify that I never bashed the product. The debate has always been about something else. A whole slew of issues, really, not related to one product or another. This isn't about product A or product B. It isn't about which is the better product ? Nobody at AppGuard cares what people here use, one way or the other. People should use what works best for them on their specific system.

I mean, it isn't like people who spectate here and know better don't see what has been really going on here over the past few months. It is being commented about all over the place.

 

[artek]

This isn't about product A or product B. It isn't about which is the better product ? Nobody at AppGuard cares what people here use, one way or the other. People should use what works best for them on their specific system.

I mean, it isn't like people who spectate here and know better don't see what has been really going on here over the past few months. It is being commented about all over the place.

And yet here you are in yet another Cylance thread, talking rather vaguely about "what's really going on." For some one not concerned about what people use or don't use, you seem to spend a lot of time in Cylance threads.

And they edit a back and forth on wielders about performance issues, which the mods end up cutting apart and leaving a bunch of quotes that reflect well on ESET. And two successive Cylance threads get locked with zero explanation.

 

[509322]

And yet here you are in yet another Cylance thread, talking rather vaguely about "what's really going on." For some one not concerned about what people use or don't use, you seem to spend a lot of time in Cylance threads.

Show me where in this thread where I have attempted to dissuade anyone from using any Cylance product ?

You can't because I haven't done it.

Everyone should use what they like. What works best for them on their specific system. This isn't about Cylance or AppGuard. If you cannot figure out what it is really about, then perhaps you shouldn't make meaningless comments.

 

[oldschool]

. And it isn't like it hasn't been noticed by many others. Go over to Wilders to see the many comments about the Cylance shilling that goes on here.

What I see over there is pretty vicious if you ask me

I just think it proves my points over and over....

...I mean, it isn't like people who spectate here and know better don't see what has been really going on here over the past few months. It is being commented about all over the place.

It was a joke! To counter some of the madness. You could also say the same about what goes "all over the place". :emoji_hushed:

 

[artek]

Show me where in this thread where I have attempted to dissuade anyone from using any Cylance product ?

You can't because I haven't done it.

Everyone should use what they like. What works best for them on their specific system. This isn't about Cylance or AppGuard. If you cannot figure out what it is really about, then perhaps you shouldn't make meaningless comments.

I'm sure all this talk about shilling, personal attacks which I've haven't seen in any of the threads, or weird statements like, "What's really going on," all in Cylance threads are meant to reflect well on the Cylance product.

I guess this weird tangled web of conspiratorial shilling you're hinting at is a good thing.

 

[509322]

What I see over there is pretty vicious if you ask me



It was a joke! To counter some of the madness. You could also say the same about what goes "all over the place". :emoji_hushed:

I am just pointing out the reality of things.

There are those keep maintaining that merely because I work for AppGuard that my presence here is me attacking Cylance. Well I haven't done that. If people actually bother to read every single post in a thread and understand the context of my posts, then it is plainly obvious that I have never made this ongoing debate about the Cylance product itself.

People on these forums assign meaning and intent as they wish. Because some only want to re-purpose posts outside the context of a thread to fit and promote their own biased and\or deranged perspective. That's why the intent and meaning of my posts are only what I say they are - as I explain them. The meaning and intent of my posts are what I say they are - and not how people interpret them.

 

[509322]

I'm sure all this talk about shilling, personal attacks which I've haven't seen in any of the threads, or weird statements like, "What's really going on," all in Cylance threads are meant to reflect well on the Cylance product.

I guess this weird tangled web of conspiratorial shilling you're hinting at is a good thing.

The statements have nothing to do with the Cylance product itself. It is you who are assigning intent and meaning as you wish. And no, they don't reflect on any particular product.

If you don't know what shilling is, then you should research it. There are subtle jabs, stabs, and innuendo against AppGuard in posts here and there in the Cylance threads. Others have immediately identified them. So it's not like most anyone cannot see it.

And it's funny, the ones who originally stated Cylance was nothing but a full-on puppet of the CIA surveillance establishment are now promoting it so hard. But you don't have a problem with that. And why should you ? Are you even aware of the actual origins of this debate and the central issues it involves ? I doubt it. What's happening here is merely you jumping in to this thread because you can.

 

[artek]

Almost the entirety of both of the Cylance threads were people blasting Cylance and saying that it would not protect home users adequately vs alternatives. I don't know how you pick a jab about appguard out of that haystack.

 

[509322]

Almost the entirety of both of the Cylance threads were people blasting Cylance and saying that it would not protect home users adequately vs alternatives.

I didn't blast Cylance.

And there were 4 Cylance threads running simultaneously.

I don't know how you pick a jab about appguard out of that haystack.

If you cannot see them, then you need to learn to read and comprehend the subtleties of English. Others can see them as plain as day.

Like I said, it is just you jumping in to a thread because you can, but not really knowing what you're talking about. You have a pattern of doing it.

 

[Nightwalker]

@Lockdown is spot on about this Shill practice, I dont know why people are attacking him for this.

Example of Shilling for Trend Micro:

Trend 2015 arrives tonight. Take a look.

Wikipedia definition:

In online discussion media, satisfied consumers or "innocent" parties may express specific opinions in order to further the interests of an organization in which they have an interest, such as a commercial vendor or special interest group. In academia, this is called opinion spamming.[4] Web sites can also be set up for the same purpose. For example, an employee of a company that produces a specific product might praise the product anonymously in a discussion forum or group in order to generate interest in that product, service, or group. In addition, some shills use "sock puppetry", where they sign on as one user soliciting recommendations for a specific product or service. They then sign on as a different user pretending to be a satisfied customer of a specific company.[citation needed]

In some jurisdictions and circumstances, this type of activity is illegal. The plastic surgery company Lifestyle Lift ordered their employees to post fake positive reviews on websites. As a result, they were sued, and ordered to pay $300,000 in damages by the New York Attorney General's office.[5]

Reputable organizations may prohibit their employees and other interested parties (contractors, agents, etc.) from participating in public forums or discussion groups in which a conflict of interest might arise, or will at least insist that their employees and agents refrain from participating in any way that might create a conflict of interest.

 

[artek]

@Lockdown is spot on about this Shill practice, I dont know why people are attacking him for this.

Example of Shilling for Trend Micro:

Trend 2015 arrives tonight. Take a look.

Wikipedia definition:

You're forgetting the other edge of the sword.

FUD was first used with its common current technology-related meaning by Gene Amdahl in 1975, after he left IBM to found his own company, Amdahl Corp.: "FUD is the fear, uncertainty, and doubt that IBM sales people instill in the minds of potential customers who might be considering Amdahl products."[7] The term has also been attributed to veteran Morgan Stanley computer analyst Ulrich Weil. This usage of FUD to describe disinformation in the computer hardware industry is said to have led to subsequent popularization of the term.[8]

As Eric S. Raymond wrote:[7]

The idea, of course, was to persuade buyers to go with safe IBM gear rather than with competitors' equipment. This implicit coercion was traditionally accomplished by promising that Good Things would happen to people who stuck with IBM, but Dark Shadows loomed over the future of competitors' equipment or software. After 1991 the term has become generalized to refer to any kind of disinformation used as a competitive weapon.​

By spreading questionable information about the drawbacks of less well known products, an established company can discourage decision-makers from choosing those products over its own, regardless of the relative technical merits. This is a recognized phenomenon, epitomized by the traditional axiom of purchasing agents that "nobody ever got fired for buying IBM equipment". The aim is to have IT departments buy software they know to be technically inferior because upper management is more likely to recognize the brand.

 

[509322]

@Lockdown is spot on about this Shill practice, I dont know why people are attacking him for this.

As soon as I made a post on this thread, people immediately made drama responses to my post.

I'm not the problem.

People who cannot control themselves, who can't stop themselves from becoming emotionally involved, and who cannot stop themselves from responding and creating drama are the problem.

You're forgetting the other edge of the sword.

FUD was first used with its common current technology-related meaning by Gene Amdahl in 1975, after he left IBM to found his own company, Amdahl Corp.: "FUD is the fear, uncertainty, and doubt that IBM sales people instill in the minds of potential customers who might be considering Amdahl products."[7] The term has also been attributed to veteran Morgan Stanley computer analyst Ulrich Weil. This usage of FUD to describe disinformation in the computer hardware industry is said to have led to subsequent popularization of the term.[8]

As Eric S. Raymond wrote:[7]

The idea, of course, was to persuade buyers to go with safe IBM gear rather than with competitors' equipment. This implicit coercion was traditionally accomplished by promising that Good Things would happen to people who stuck with IBM, but Dark Shadows loomed over the future of competitors' equipment or software. After 1991 the term has become generalized to refer to any kind of disinformation used as a competitive weapon.​

By spreading questionable information about the drawbacks of less well known products, an established company can discourage decision-makers from choosing those products over its own, regardless of the relative technical merits. This is a recognized phenomenon, epitomized by the traditional axiom of purchasing agents that "nobody ever got fired for buying IBM equipment". The aim is to have IT departments buy software they know to be technically inferior because upper management is more likely to recognize the brand.

No one was creating FUD. No one was bashing. There was only an open debate. It's people like you that immediately start to cry "Foul ! Foul ! No fair ! Bashing !" when something is posted that you simply don't like or you disagree with. The post might or might not have anything to do with anything. Your objective is just to get involved because you don't like it. And it is obvious that you didn't even read every single post in every thread - across all of the threads - to even know the origins and the reason this debate continues on the subject at-hand.

Nope. I certainly don't need to create FUD. Nor did I.

You peoples' own testing of Cylance demonstrated and proved any FUD all by itself. All in all, Cylance is an OK AV with some strengths and weakness. I've gone on public record stating that it is a decent AV. But you won't acknowledge what I just said. You'll just continue to maintain that I am here just creating FUD and bashing Cylance.

But like I keep saying, this really isn't about any Cylance product. And if you cannot figure out what it is really about, then you should stay out of it because you're saying things based upon your own interpretation of things - and your interpretations are dead wrong. You are assigning intent and meaning as you wish. It doesn't work that way. Like I've said repeatedly, the intent and meaning of my posts are what I say they are -- and not how you interpret them.

 

[artek]

As soon as I made a post on this thread, people immediately made drama responses to my post.

I'm not the problem.

People who cannot control themselves, who can't stop themselves from becoming emotionally involved, and who cannot stop themselves from responding and creating drama are the problem.



No one was creating FUD. No one was bashing. There was only an open debate. It's people like you that immediately start to cry "Foul ! Foul ! No fair ! Bashing !" when something is posted that you simply don't like or you disagree with. The post might or might not have anything to do with anything. Your objective is just to get involved because you don't like it. And it is obvious that you didn't even read every single post in every thread - across all of the threads - to even know the origins and the reason this debate continues on the subject at-hand.

Nope. I certainly don't need to create FUD. Nor did I.

You peoples' own testing of Cylance demonstrated and proved any FUD all by itself. All in all, Cylance is an OK AV with some strengths and weakness. I've gone on public record stating that it is a decent AV. But you won't acknowledge what I just said. You'll just continue to maintain that I am here just creating FUD and bashing Cylance.

But like I keep saying, this really isn't about any Cylance product. And if you cannot figure out what it is really about, then you should stay out of it because you're saying things based upon your own interpretation of things - and your interpretations are dead wrong. You are assigning intent and meaning as you wish. It doesn't work that way. Like I've said repeatedly, the intent and meaning of my posts are what I say they are -- and not how you interpret them.

I'm not accusing anyone of FUD. I'm merely pointing out that it works both ways. If you read any of the locked threads, and you saw "rampant shilling"I would consider it a very selective reading. I am not sure what you mean about this not being about any Cylance product. These have all been threads about Cylance Smart Anivirus. What else would we be talking about?

 

[ForgottenSeer 58943]

These have all been threads about Cylance Smart Anivirus. What else would we be talking about?

This is the real issue here. We're of course supposed to be talking about Cylance in this thread. I'm sorry if Cylance killed your chickens or something, but the reality is - this simple logic seems to evade people. This is the Cylance thread and that's what we're here to talk about.

PS: I like Cylance, but would only use it as a part of a combination of things. One of the best parts of Cylance is the awareness it gives you of things that are misbehaving or trying to install this or that which is even remotely risky. Someone I recommended Cylance to tried to install a cracked Swords and Sandals today and it flagged it. I sent it up to VT, and only 5 AV's flagged it as malicious. Good to know.. I told him to buy the game..

 

[509322]

I'm not accusing anyone of FUD. I'm merely pointing out that it works both ways. If you read any of the locked threads, and you saw "rampant shilling"I would consider it a very selective reading.

There is much more going on in these threads than merely Cylance product discussion.

The locked threads are the result of only one or two people - a few at most - getting too emotionally involved and crying & complaining because they could not control the thread and\or didn't like something that was posted. The post-reporting is at the tattle-tale 1st-grade level. The emotionally charged and childish post reporting is, for example, just one of the ongoing issues.

I am not sure what you mean about this not being about any Cylance product. These have all been threads about Cylance Smart Anivirus. What else would we be talking about?

There is a lot more that happens in threads other than the subject matter defined in the thread title.

If you don't understand what the central issues are, then you should stay out of it.

Like I keep saying, what is going on is what I mean it to be - and not how you interpret the thread. I have seen all the Cylance threads going all the way back to 2016 and the very first CylancePROTECT threads. And I have read and sometime re-read every single post to know exactly what has and has not been said, and to know what is and is not actually happening in each thread and all the threads collectively.

 

[ForgottenSeer 58943]

Back to Cylance..

I've seen a few combos in use;

Cylance+VoodooShield
Cylance+CF w/CS
Cylance+FortiClient (interesting combo)
Cylance+OSArmor
Etc..

The new one which shows promise I am hearing about.. Cylance+Thor Foresight/Vigilance...

 

[artek]

There is much more going on in these threads than merely Cylance product discussion.

The locked threads are the result of only one or two people - a few at most - getting too emotionally involved and crying & complaining because they could not control the thread and\or didn't like something that was posted. The post-reporting is at the tattle-tale 1st-grade level. The emotionally charged and childish post reporting is, for example, just one of the ongoing issues.



There is a lot more that happens in threads other than the subject matter defined in the thread title.

If you don't understand what the central issues are, then you should stay out of it.

Like I keep saying, what is going on is what I mean it to be - and not how you interpret the thread. I have seen all the Cylance threads going all the way back to 2016 and the very first CylancePROTECT threads. And I have read and sometime re-read every single post to know exactly what has and has not been said, and to know what is and is not actually happening in each thread and all the threads collectively.

I've never been one for subtext or running to teacher when something happens I don't like. I love the spirit of open debate here. It's one of the things that keeps me coming back.

 

[509322]

This is the real issue here. We're of course supposed to be talking about Cylance in this thread. I'm sorry if Cylance killed your chickens or something, but the reality is - this simple logic seems to evade people. This is the Cylance thread and that's what we're here to talk about.

PS: I like Cylance, but would only use it as a part of a combination of things. One of the best parts of Cylance is the awareness it gives you of things that are misbehaving or trying to install this or that which is even remotely risky. Someone I recommended Cylance to tried to install a cracked Swords and Sandals today and it flagged it. I sent it up to VT, and only 5 AV's flagged it as malicious. Good to know.. I told him to buy the game..

There is no argument that Cylance should be discussed. But like I said, there is more going on in a thread than mere topic discussion.

Oh Please. You're the one who has repeatedly taken jabs at AppGuard for no purpose other than to lash out. And not just here. You've done it multiple times on different threads. Just pointing out an indisputable fact. It is on public record. That is one issue. And I am asking nicely at this point for you to stop doing it.

And another primary issue is people getting too emotionally involved, bent out of shape and reporting valid opposition posts that don't coincide with their wishes. There is intolerance of the points of view held both those that don't match that of the thread hive.

These threads always generate a slew of child-like, extremely immature temper tantrums via lashing-out and or post-reporting and complaints to staff. All because people can't tolerate the views of others. It would be different if there was harassment and illegal stuff, but that isn't what has been happening here.

And another thing that proves my point... all I had to do was to make a single post and the drama response was immediate.

 

[509322]

I've never been one for subtext or running to teacher when something happens I don't like. I love the spirit of open debate here. It's one of the things that keeps me coming back.

If these threads were truly about open debate - with all legitimate points of view welcomed and embraced - then there would not be one single bit of drama on any of them. Instead we have multiple threads now locked along with ongoing drama because I keep calling out the same issues that keep happening over-and-over.

 

[Deleted Member 3a5v73x]

I have read every single post, and to me it seems security software not liked by hardcore geeks which has 10+ pages in MT is overrated hype and threads have higher chanse to be locked because those opinions appereantly have higher value than other 10 members feedback. "People reporting not-desired replies" and "some are too emotionally attached to specific software and can't handle truth" is just an excuses to cover up what's going on. Free speech and opinion expression is suppressed to a point people is afraid to talk to not get banned/harassed afterwards.