Battle Security software that uses BitDefender engine - Discussion

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BoraMurdar

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All these products have among the highest malware detection rates on the market. So in most cases they will protect you well.
But what distinguishes them?
We have most of well known names here, honorable mention would go also for :

Auslogics Antivirus
IObit Advanced SystemCare with Antivirus 2013
Hauri (ViRobot)
Imen,
Immunet,
MultiCore Antivirus
RadialPoint
Roboscan Internet Security,
SafeNSoft,
SecurityCoverage,
SourceNext,
VirusChaser,
Zenok.​
 
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D

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Emsisoft is small company, they couldn't make valuable AV themselves. They have to use 3th party engine.

making their product among the top5 at the moment.

I also don't expect from them to make deep research. It requires time and human resources.
But they are devoted to make their product in security field, and they made own HIPS (Mamutu).

if you knew what some of us know, you will say differently ^^

remember that HMP used both Emsisoft engines not only Ikarus or BD, not bad for a small company without resources /s

Mamutu is not an HIPS it is a Behavior Blocker. the HIPS is in the Online Armor firewall
 
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Neiltullio

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@exterminator20: Making own AV engine is complicated task.
Avast, AVG, Avira, BitDefender, ClamAV, Comodo, DrWeb, ESET, Commtouch/Fprot, Fortinet, Kaspersky, Malwarebytes, McAfee, Microsoft, Norman, Panda, Sophos, Sunbelt/Vipre, Symantec/Norton, TrendMicro, VBA and Agnitum (ex-VirusBuster) are engines developers. They do the job.
Most of AV products on the market use engines from listed above. BitDefender is used most often.

Most AV's use mutliscanning,primarily because no single Av engine is 100% Each engine uses different scanning methods and updates.Using more than 1 increases the chances of catching malware.
I can't agree. AVs working seriously on their own engines rather don't use 3th party engines. It is too slow when you compare it to possible gain (if you have engine detecting 98% of threats and you need to increase scanning time twice to get another 1% you may decide that it isn't too smart)
Even G-Data decided to drop Avast engine (and they used Kaspersky in the past, same with F-Secure). What they use now is BitDefender and inhouse engine called CloseGap. In general this name very nicely describes what vendors do - they focus on closing gaps left by "main" engine.
 

Exterminator

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@exterminator20: Making own AV engine is complicated task.
Avast, AVG, Avira, BitDefender, ClamAV, Comodo, DrWeb, ESET, Commtouch/Fprot, Fortinet, Kaspersky, Malwarebytes, McAfee, Microsoft, Norman, Panda, Sophos, Sunbelt/Vipre, Symantec/Norton, TrendMicro, VBA and Agnitum (ex-VirusBuster) are engines developers. They do the job.
Most of AV products on the market use engines from listed above. BitDefender is used most often.

I understand making an Av Engine is a complicated task as I do that Most Av's use a combination of the Engines you mentioned or those listed and an in house engine.

I can't agree. AVs working seriously on their own engines rather don't use 3th party engines.it is too slow when you compare it to possible gain (if you have engine detecting 98% of threats and you need to increase scanning time twice to get another 1% you may decide that it isn't too smart)
Even G-Data decided to drop Avast engine (and they used Kaspersky in the past, same with F-Secure). What they use now is BitDefender and inhouse engine called CloseGap. In general this name very nicely describes what vendors do - they focus on closing gaps left by "main" engine.

You don't agree that AV's use multi scanning with multiple engines however you are saying G-Data now uses Bitdefender & an in house engine called "CloseGap".That is an example of multi scanning.Using mutliple engines to increase the percentage of catching malware.
Same as Emsisoft using Bitdefender and an in house engine,no different.Saying that Emsisoft employs only GUI programmers is not a statement based on fact.

You want to say that Emsisoft could drop BitDefender and use exclusively results of their own work?
IMHO Emsi is not able to do it.

Apparently neither can G-Data but they employ more than just GUI programmers unlike Emsisoft


Please, share with all of us if you can :) It's always good to be positively suprised :D

Umbra is by far the most knowledgeable member here on Security Software,he might even know more about the Software than the companies that make it :D
Everybody uses a different solution for what works best for them based on their system and personal computing habits and level of expertise.I am not trying to be confrontational with you but some statements made are not fact based or contradictory.
 
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Neiltullio

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I understand making an Av Engine is a complicated task as I do that Most Av's use a combination of the Engines you mentioned or those listed and a in house engine.
If you check market share for AVs you will see that most of AVs use one - their own - engine.
AVs working seriously on their own engines rather don't use 3th party engines.

You don't agree that AV's use multi scanning with multiple engines however you are saying G-Data now uses Bitdefender & an in house engine called "CloseGap".That is an example of multi scanning.Using mutliple engines to increase the percentage of catching malware. Same as Emsisoft using Bitdefender and an in house engine,no different.
GData and Emsisoft are not mainstream products. They use "multiscanning" using "big engine" and in-house engine ("closing gaps").

Saying that Emsisoft employs only GUI programmers is not a statement based on fact.
I didnt' mean it that way. I said: FSecure, Gdata and Emsisoft are all companies devoted to security - in opposition to IObit, Auslogic and so on who focus on the GUI.
 

Exterminator

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True, but making PR is not everything ;)
Emsisoft is small company, they couldn't make valuable AV themselves. They have to use 3th party engine.
I also don't expect from them to make deep research. It requires time and human resources.
But they are devoted to make their product in security field, and they made own HIPS (Mamutu).
GData is bigger, they work in security for ages and they have real developers and not only GUI programmers ;)

If I misunderstood I aplogize

If you check market share for AVs you will see that most of AVs use one - their own - engine.
AVs working seriously on their own engines rather don't use 3th party engines.


GData and Emsisoft are not mainstream products. They use "multiscanning" using "big engine" and in-house engine ("closing gaps").


I didnt' mean it that way. I said: FSecure, Gdata and Emsisoft are all companies devoted to security - in opposition to IObit, Auslogic and so on who focus on the GUI.

For me personally,the market share report really means nothing other than a popularity report.I will grant you that of those companies that do use their own AV engine,they are truly the big players in the AV market.However you cannot take that at face value since just about every store purchased PC comes with a trial of either Norton,Kaspersky or Mcaffe.Mainstream is not always the best option or the best product.
 
D

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I would say more but since i am a closed beta tester i cant ;)

I dont care if a vendor uses its own engine or not, if its products gives me excellent protection and fit my needs.

Better a vendor using a performant engine made by another than a vendor with inhouse but weak engine.

Just as an image Apple uses Samsung components for their iphone. Apple could create their own but they prefer Samsung one because they do better.

Meditate
 
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BoraMurdar

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True, but making PR is not everything ;)
Emsisoft is small company, they couldn't make valuable AV themselves. They have to use 3th party engine.
I also don't expect from them to make deep research. It requires time and human resources.
But they are devoted to make their product in security field, and they made own HIPS (Mamutu).
GData is bigger, they work in security for ages and they have real developers and not only GUI programmers ;)
That was the meaning of my question in the first place. I chose to do this poll to see what people think about the companies that borrows the BitDefender engine. I know that GDATA is big company, just said that I will always show more respect to companies like Kaspersky, ESET and "even" Symantec than to companies that invite few people to combine Outpost Firewall + BitDefender engine (like GData or Bullguard), add some behavior blocker, which, like Earth said, can be found in Non-AV software, and start selling the product, changing interface every year and that's it.
Behavior of unknown programs (as malware possibility) should be the top priority, their research is, for me, section that every serious security company should have and improve.
For example, one day some guys create malware that can bypass BitDefender engine (and in the same time bypass a half of AV Market :) ) and it has possibility to run from "ultragiga kernel level" that behavior blocker just can't stop. Now what? Panic, and wait for probably Kaspersky, Norton or Microsoft finds the way to stop the malware.
Many AV-Testers on YouTube, here or there, just consult Malwarebytes as second opinion. But what Malwarebytes consults for?
That's the people I admire the most.
 
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Nico@FMA

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I personally don't like the BitDefender engine, I believe it is highly over-rated because of AV testing sites which are paid well for the testing results. Even if the detection rates were accurate, detection is only one factor to consider when choosing an AV. From high false positives to system performance issues and bugs, it just not a good engine for real-time protection.

However Emsisoft probably is the best because they actually take steps to remove the high false positive detections and their own engine is pretty good by itself, bugs and system performance issues not as bad as others. Still I only prefer to use it as a on-demand scanner.

Thanks. :D

Cheer Cheer GREAT comment.
Personally i agree a 1000% with your comment, and i would like to add that: Most people do not realize that there are a dozen AV Vendors out there who strictly rely on the technology and signatures of bigger names.
So its not uncommon that scanning engines and malware signatures are being shared or made available to "smaller vendors".
But this does not mean that Vendor X who uses Bitdefenders engine will have the same result as the flagship version of Bitdefender itself.

On top of that on needs to realize that testing results and even a test marathon will produce snapshot results which are being based upon that particular time and moment.
And this does not reflect the performance in a real home or business environment. Mainly because within a testing lab a program is being tested rigorous BUT human intervention, underlying business infrastructure and different software which is being used in real world is NOT a factor do give accurate results from a testing lab POV.
However if you are reading the test results of the known testing labs then they will generally give you a idea, about what you could expect from a chosen AV solution.
Fact thou is that, real world environment, and network infrastructure based external settings and configurations can drastic change the performance of a AV solution in both a good way, and equally bad way.

In regards to Bitdefender and MANY others listed here, there is not a single one that is being used within a respectable company who takes security serious.
Immunet does have a premium solution which is regarded as really good, but even they will not be installed at in a business environment.
One needs to realize the differences between "home" "allround" and "business" versions of AV solutions and security applications that is being used.
For example Bitdefender they are a respectable AV. But they are focussed on Home environments, where the protection gained from their solutions is aimed at being user friendly. Also its being made with the average user in mind, who MAY not have enough technical know how.
So its whole internal architecture is based upon that.
Which also means that their effectiveness is limited, and that false positives are prone to happen.
You have to realize that within a company network environment, people will not use Kazaa, Bearshare or Limewire or Torrents.
Also weird sites will not be accessed and user actions are limited to actual only use the pc when strictly needed.
To put it in simple words: A company employee who uses the pc will not pull crap on their system, while a home users usually do not have a clue what they are doing and using their pc in a way that would make a system admin go wanna beat them to pulp with a wet tuna if they would pull such a stunt within a protected company network.
Really the general home pc user is just one brain cell away from being classified as brain death.
They do not need a high end solution, they need a solution that keeps their system running long enough to BUY the next cheap pc.
As generally they do not have a clue. Generally the typical home user will not even be allowed near a company pc.
So this also changes the scope of protection needed. So all this user friendly and user GUI and all these modules that are made are really not needed within a business environment, and everything is being emphasised on detection, removal, monitoring and crash prevention / fallback configs with the specific idea of keeping the system online no matter what (system continuity)

My point here is aside from being a home product, the BD engine is really not that good, and the core engine that BD uses themselves is light years better then the "export" versions which are usually stripped down older versions.
If they would ship their full option engine to a other AV vendor then they would put themselves out of business.
Also some vendors ONLY use the internal structure of engines and add stuff of their own, so technically its a hybrid engine BASED upon BD.
Emisoft is one of the very few vendors who are allowed to modify the BD engine, and they have actually improved the BD engine.
In the field it is proven to be less FP and more accurate then the engine used in Bitdefender products.
Anyway most have their own AV flavour and their own experience and thats ok. But one needs to realize that home packages and business packages are 2 complete different worlds, and by default the potential of a home package is nowhere close to what a industrial AV solution already achieves on minimal settings. Disagree all you want, but there is a reason why there are only 5 names within the AV industry that are dominating the industrial security market: Symantec, Mcafee, Sophos, F-Secure, Kaspersky and obviously this is not because they are cheap or have great marketing. Sure some might say that there are some other brands out there Sure whatever.

Don't understand Emsisoft is small company, they couldn't make valuable AV themselves
Most AV's use mutliscanning,primarily because no single Av engine is 100% Each engine uses different scanning methods and updates.Using more than 1 increases the chances of catching malware.

Emsisoft uses an in-house engine with BitDefender engine

G-Data AntiVirus uses Avast and BitDefender's engine

F-secure uses an in-house engine with BitDefender's engine


"GData is bigger, they work in security for ages and they have real developers and not only GUI programmers"

I know people that work for Emsisoft and would have to disagree with the above comment

Just for the record, Emisoft is NOT a small company and dates back to 2003 (granted their team is small but their importance within the Zero day community is HUGE and is pretty much as important as Sophos.) , And G-Data is actually the new kid on the block here.
Just a few small differences here, Emisoft is a fully qualified AV vendor and developer, they also are part of the Zero day team which is reserved to only a few names in the industry. Needless to say G-data is not a part of that and neither are they a fully qualified AV vendor and developer.
They are so called GUI developers, even tho i need to mention that this is changing as right now they actually are a fully qualified developer as they released a in-house hybrid engine.
Its not even subject to debate its fact and public knowledge.

Each engine uses different scanning methods and updates. Using more than 1 increases the chances of catching malware.
Really? O may <facepalm> you got to be kidding me. This little thing is utterly Bull my friend. Dunno which self proclaimed internet Guru told you that but take my word for it as professional multiple engines CAN increase detection true, and specially with more mature brands this seem to be the case.
However a single engine configuration can be just or even more effective: http://go.eset.com/us/resources/white-papers/cfet2011_multiscanning_paper.pdf

Sure will not deny that you do have a point by saying that M-Scan does increase chances, but understand my comment and where i come from.
There is a reason i say this. Also you should understand the difference between multi engine scanning where there are different modules running as different process within a program (Not so effective FACT) or single engine scanning who use multiple scanning techniques within the same process (Highly effective Fact Lol)

Anyway no disrespect intended buddy.
Ps edit: Littlebits i quoted your post and commented on it but the reaction is generally and is not towards you. Just realized that i sound like someone who was giving you a lecture lol.
 
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Exterminator

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@ n.nvt the following was not my quote but a quote from another member,that I quoted
Don't understand Emsisoft is small company, they couldn't make valuable AV themselves
Most AV's use mutliscanning,primarily because no single Av engine is 100% Each engine uses different scanning methods and updates.Using more than 1 increases the chances of catching malware.

Emsisoft uses an in-house engine with BitDefender engine

G-Data AntiVirus uses Avast and BitDefender's engine

F-secure uses an in-house engine with BitDefender's engine


"GData is bigger, they work in security for ages and they have real developers and not only GUI programmers"

I know people that work for Emsisoft and would have to disagree with the above comment

I know Emsisoft is not a small company.I am an affiliate partner with Emsisoft.I know people that work for Emsisoft.

this was my quote

Each engine uses different scanning methods and updates. Using more than 1 increases the chances of catching malware.

This was in regards to a comment made about Emsisoft using multiple AV engines by another member.Maybe if you read the entire thread that would be clearer.I am not saying this is better and set in stone. I am just saying that this is the idea behind using more than 1 AV engine in regards to another post.

Really? O may <facepalm> you got to be kidding me. This little thing is utterly Bull my friend. Dunno which self proclaimed internet Guru told you that but take my word for it as professional multiple engines CAN increase detection true, and specially with more mature brands this seem to be the case.
However a single engine configuration can be just or even more effective: http://go.eset.com/us/resources/white-papers/cfet2011_multiscanning_paper.pdf

Sure will not deny that you do have a point by saying that M-Scan does increase chances, but understand my comment and where i come from.
There is a reason i say this. Also you should understand the difference between multi engine scanning where there are different modules running as different process within a program (Not so effective FACT) or single engine scanning who use multiple scanning techniques within the same process (Highly effective Fact Lol)

Anyway no disrespect intended buddy.

Now after the nice flaming you gave me above,you agree with my point on the Mult.AV engines. Professionally speaking I really don't know the reason for the above comments in light of miss quotes and posts taken out of context.
You seem very knowledgeable and that is an asset to this site,but remember there are members here who are not on the same level as you.Posting comments like that doesn't do a non experienced member any good,even if they weren't the intended target.

"Anyway no disrespect intended buddy" None taken,I do have a username though.

Thanks
 

Nico@FMA

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@ Exterminator20

I stand correct some words came out wrong, for that i am sorry. I really did not see that you quoted comments from Neiltullio
However that does not change what i wrote as i was right, because Neiltullio does not seem to know what he was talking about.
Hence i got carried away.

Now after the nice flaming you gave me above,you agree with my point on the Mult.AV engines. Professionally speaking I really don't know the reason for the above comments in light of miss quotes and posts taken out of context.
You seem very knowledgeable and that is an asset to this site,but remember there are members here who are not on the same level as you.Posting comments like that doesn't do a non experienced member any good,even if they weren't the intended target.

Sorry for the flame lol no flame was intended. And i was not trying to pull things out of context but the fact that i did not see it got multi quoted from other users did screw up a bit in the way how i was going to reply.
Anyway in regards to MAV Engines i made a mess explaining what i was trying to say.
Maybe this due the fact that english is not my native language so my use of words my come out wrong.
So perhaps you could summarize what i was trying to point out. Because i honestly think that we both have a very solid point here.

You seem very knowledgeable and that is an asset to this site,but remember there are members here who are not on the same level as you.
Nope i am the dumbest person on the planet, and i am not afraid to admit it. But generally i always say: You do not have to be smart as long as you can read. :) lmao.
But yeah you are right i need to work on the way how i write things down., I did take the trouble to go trough my posts and yes not everyone is as nice as i would like.

Cheers
 
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Neiltullio

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@n.nvt :

Neiltullio does not seem to know what he was talking about
:)
Just for the record, Emisoft is NOT a small company and dates back to 2003 (granted their team is small but their importance within the Zero day community is HUGE and is pretty much as important as Sophos.) , And G-Data is actually the new kid on the block here.
Just a few small differences here, Emisoft is a fully qualified AV vendor and developer, they also are part of the Zero day team which is reserved to only a few names in the industry. Needless to say G-data is not a part of that and neither are they a fully qualified AV vendor and developer.
They are so called GUI developers, even tho i need to mention that this is changing as right now they actually are a fully qualified developer as they released a in-house hybrid engine.
Its not even subject to debate its fact and public knowledge.
:)

Facts:
http://www.emsisoft.com/en/company/about/
We are one of the youngest and smallest companies amongst the international competitors of the antivirus industry (...)
Our approximately 25 employees are located all over the world (...)
http://www.linkedin.com/company/emsisoft-gmbh
Company Size: 11-50 employees

http://www.gdatasoftware.com/about-g-data/company-profile.html
http://www.virusbtn.com/vb100/archive/test?id=127
November 2000, GData product tested by VB100

What do mean by "zero day team" ?
 

Exterminator

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Facts:
http://www.emsisoft.com/en/company/about/
We are one of the youngest and smallest companies amongst the international competitors of the antivirus industry (...)
Our approximately 25 employees are located all over the world (...)
http://www.linkedin.com/company/emsisoft-gmbh
Company Size: 11-50 employees

http://www.gdatasoftware.com/about-g-data/company-profile.html
http://www.virusbtn.com/vb100/archive/test?id=127
November 2000, GData product tested by VB100

What do mean by "zero day team" ?

n.nvt said:
Just for the record, Emisoft is NOT a small company and dates back to 2003 (granted their team is small but their importance within the Zero day community is HUGE and is pretty much as important as Sophos.)

n.nvt and many of us by saying Emsisoft is not a small company,are talking about their software and dedication to the antivirus industry.Not by the number of employees.That is evident in the bold highlighted quote from n.nvt.

The Zeroday Emergency Response Team (ZERT) was a group of volunteer security researchers who produced emergency patches for zero day attack vulnerabilities.The team included several members prominent in antivirus and network security work.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeroday_Emergency_Response_Team

A zero-day attack or threat is an attack that exploits a previously unknown vulnerability in a computer application, meaning that the attack occurs on "day zero" of awareness of the vulnerability.This means that the developers have had zero days to address and patch the vulnerability.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_day_attack


The November 2000 VB results mean absolutely nothing 5 days from 2014.
 
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Nico@FMA

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n.nvt and many of us by saying Emsisoft is not a small company,are talking about their software and dedication to the antivirus industry.Not by the number of employees.That is evident in the bold highlighted quote from n.nvt.

The Zeroday Emergency Response Team (ZERT) was a group of volunteer security researchers who produced emergency patches for zero day attack vulnerabilities.The team included several members prominent in antivirus and network security work.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeroday_Emergency_Response_Team

A zero-day attack or threat is an attack that exploits a previously unknown vulnerability in a computer application, meaning that the attack occurs on "day zero" of awareness of the vulnerability.This means that the developers have had zero days to address and patch the vulnerability.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_day_attack


The November 2000 VB results mean absolutely nothing 5 days from 2014.

Thanks for pointing this out, saves me typing.
 

Nico@FMA

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@Neiltullio

For your information, company size does not say much, and neither does it say anything if they are a small player or not.
Many of the major AV and Security vendors outsource their dedicated patch solutions to relatively small companies.
In regards to the ZERT team which does not exist anymore, a new international team has been setup some time ago, and i believe they are called SANS www.sans.org.

The reason i said you seem not to know what you talk about is because of the following post:

Emsisoft is small company, they couldn't make valuable AV themselves. They have to use 3th party engine.
I also don't expect from them to make deep research. It requires time and human resources.
But they are devoted to make their product in security field, and they made own HIPS (Mamutu).
GData is bigger, they work in security for ages and they have real developers and not only GUI programmers
Its not even remotely accurate and its totally baseless and filled with person ideaś. Emisoft has contributed considerable to the industry and their expertise is very highly regarded. In regards to their research capacity, they have a shared infrastructure with several other companies where development and research takes place on the highest levels and most innovative solutions, which is not limited to Emisofts own software and security products. And they are a leading European supplier of behavioural analysis technology for detecting damaging software.
So as a rule of thumb if somewhere around the world some super rootkit, or seriously damaging trojan is being released, the odds that the Emisoft research team has contributed to the "cure" and understanding of the very makings and its abilities is pretty much a given.
Because they really are specialized in this field. Which some of the HUGE AV vendors cannot say.
Also one needs to understand that even tho the industry is highly competitive its not uncommon that rival AV vendors share their resources in order to find a cure and to understand how a certain type of new malware is being created and what it can do.
For example "Flame" "Netsky" "Mydoom" "Sasser" "Codered" "Bagle" and others, where serious malwares that did circulate the internet, and most where released in MANY hybrid versions, even to this day there are new types coming out of Codered, Netsky. Back then the industry did have a real problem detecting and solving these malwares. And it took nearly the whole industry and its resources to do so, as individually most of them did not even have the resources. Needless to say Emisoft played a huge part in this and contributed their expertise.

Cheers
 
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