Andy Ful

Level 63
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Content Creator
Security forums are comprised of users with an unusually high interest in security software. On the user spectrum bell curve, such users represent the extreme right tail.
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People on security forums have a natural tendency to maximize security and mountain climbers like high mountains very much. Although they are not typical in their interests, they are also typical, because most people have some special interests.
We should not criticize someone who chose very strong & layered security if this does not kill the computer and the layers are sensible. It would be like criticizing a good alpinist. Of course, the alpinist does not have to climb mountains, except that he/she likes it.
 
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ForgottenSeer 86663

People on security forums have a natural tendency to maximize security and mountain climbers like high mountains very much. Although they are not typical in their interests, they are also typical, because most people have some special interests.
We should not criticize someone who chose very strong & layered security if this does not kill the computer and the layers are sensible. It would be like criticizing a good alpinist. Of course, the alpinist does not have to climb mountains, except that he/she likes it.

They are not guided by reason. They are guided by unfounded fear. That is a completely legitimate criticism. And not only that, it is how they allow an entire software industry to prey upon them, by targeting their fears.

In the face of uncertainty, one does not build a fort. That is a waste. Not only that, it does not solve the problem that they expect it. All it does is assuage irrational emotions. I mean, if people are here for emotional comfort, well you know what, that is probably why most people are here but they just don't know it.

As for the hobbyist nature of these sites, that is not real security. It is about playing with software and fanboyism. No different than gaming sites. Most of these forums have the same inherent problems as gaming sites - notably people not in control of their emotions.

There is no room for emotions in security. In fact, building security upon emotions is not real security at all. What it does foster is disproportionate security that is way out of line with reality.

I'm sorry but being paranoid is a bad thing. Everybody knows that. Yet I find it curious that people get all bent out of shape when you call them out on their paranoia and bad emotion-based behaviors. Reacting by emotion is definitely not OK. The mental health professionals say so.
 

Back3

Level 5
For the last nine months or so, I have been using WD with Configure Defender. Before trying other security software, I make an image with Macrium to be able to get back to my basic setup. Because this is my basic setup.
Three weeks ago, I tried Voodooshield, then Spyshelter, and two days ago Hard Configurator. It used to be fun to tweak my systems. But not anymore. I still like the challenge of learning but it bores me more and more having to look for an hour because links in my emails don't open anymore or having to whitelist folders or exe.
I'm still a learner. But now, it's more fun helping people around me than tweaking my system. Maybe it's old age!
 

Andy Ful

Level 63
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Content Creator
They are not guided by reason. They are guided by unfounded fear. That is a completely legitimate criticism. And not only that, it is how they allow an entire software industry to prey upon them, by targeting their fears.
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You based your reasoning on the unsupported assumption. You would be right if most people on security forums were guided by fear (of course it is true for some MT members too). But there are other possible & probable reasons. In my example, it was an interest in exploration and research (not strictly professional). Many people on security forums just like to discuss and try different security approaches, and you are right that this can be a similar activity to gaming, climbing, and cooking.
Some forum members treat such activity as fun and some can treat it more seriously. Most security forums are not strictly professional, like most forums in general. Anyway, such forums can be very useful for many people.
 

Raiden

Level 18
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My feeling is I prefer the uncontrollably of alternatives to WD - Its maybe hard to explain but it feels the right thing (it is the right thing) if it means paying a few pounds extra I'm very happy with that - I'm never that happy with most inbuilt MS modules, well almost all of them & AV is one of them - I understand some may fee it's a waste of money but it's my cash - I recently got a ten seat KIS for under forty UK pounds, well worth it - Can' see my opinion changing?

And your opinion shouldn't change. Everyone will have different needs/wants and different comfort levels, which is totally fine.

Similarly if someone likes to use WD and W10 security features, they should. No one should try to get them to change. WD and W10 overall has greatly improved on the security side of things, so there's no need to fear it, but that doesn't mean it will meet everyone's needs either.

There are many great options to choose from, just find the one that works for you.(y)

I do not see anything unusual in such an opinion. Windows Defender on Windows 10, should be a starting point. There are many ways to security.:)

Exactly!

For the last nine months or so, I have been using WD with Configure Defender. Before trying other security software, I make an image with Macrium to be able to get back to my basic setup. Because this is my basic setup.
Three weeks ago, I tried Voodooshield, then Spyshelter, and two days ago Hard Configurator. It used to be fun to tweak my systems. But not anymore. I still like the challenge of learning but it bores me more and more having to look for an hour because links in my emails don't open anymore or having to whitelist folders or exe.
I'm still a learner. But now, it's more fun helping people around me than tweaking my system. Maybe it's old age!
I've pretty much gone down the same route as you. I love tweaking and playing with different software/configurations, but like you sometimes all this tweaking becomes exhausting, so i start looking for simpler things.

Some forum members treat such activity as fun and some can treat it more seriously. Most security forums are not strictly professional, like most forums in general. Anyway, such forums can be very useful for many people.

Exactly.

Security forum members are not all paranoid, fear mongers, its just a group of geeks that like to discuss this topic. As I said in my previous post, the fear and paranoia that does present itself has more to do with not understanding what's being said, or what said data means. It's all about context, if taken correctly it's fine, if taken out of context, then you have a recipe for the fear and paranoia that is sometimes evident.
 
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DDE_Server

Level 21
Verified
My feeling is I prefer the uncontrollably of alternatives to WD - Its maybe hard to explain but it feels the right thing (it is the right thing) if it means paying a few pounds extra I'm very happy with that - I'm never that happy with most inbuilt MS modules, well almost all of them & AV is one of them - I understand some may fee it's a waste of money but it's my cash - I recently got a ten seat KIS for under forty UK pounds, well worth it - Can' see my opinion changing?
i have the exact feeling. i feel 3rd party security soft is still powerful and user friendly than built in windows defender mechanism.may be i am wrong as AV tests prove that windows defender has improved a lot since the first time it has been introduced in windows 8 but still find the 3 rd party more dedicated and specialized with more experience in that field other than Microsoft. the only advantage i find in windows defender is it is well integrated with windows OS less conflict and more stable however that will not be the sufficient reason for me to switch to it :) :)
 
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Up til it was revealed Avast was selling user Data, i was unsure about leaving 3rd Party Security Software behind, after that was revealed i switched all household systems to using Windows Defender, with Malwarebytes Free.

hopefully safe enough for daily usage, so far scans with eset online scanner, Emisoft Emergency kit, and Malwarebytes Free always find nothing--so guess pretty safe thus far
 
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ForgottenSeer 86663

You based your reasoning on the unsupported assumption. You would be right if most people on security forums were guided by fear (of course it is true for some MT members too). But there are other possible & probable reasons. In my example, it was an interest in exploration and research (not strictly professional). Many people on security forums just like to discuss and try different security approaches, and you are right that this can be a similar activity to gaming, climbing, and cooking.
Some forum members treat such activity as fun and some can treat it more seriously. Most security forums are not strictly professional, like most forums in general. Anyway, such forums can be very useful for many people.

This is a hobbyist and social media site, right ? I never said there is anything wrong with. Just because it is amateur does not make it bad. Like I said, places like this are bascially the same as gamer websites. The same behaviors one sees there are almost identical to what happens here.

Anyway, most people that people who participate on these forums are predisposed to be paranoids. I'm not going to take some poll to confirm. My experience across decades tells me what I'm saying is true.

The truth of the matter is that most people make security decisions based upon emotions and not reality. The entire security software industry knows it very well. It is what makes them rich.
 

South Park

Level 7
Verified
For the last nine months or so, I have been using WD with Configure Defender. Before trying other security software, I make an image with Macrium to be able to get back to my basic setup. Because this is my basic setup.
Three weeks ago, I tried Voodooshield, then Spyshelter, and two days ago Hard Configurator. It used to be fun to tweak my systems. But not anymore. I still like the challenge of learning but it bores me more and more having to look for an hour because links in my emails don't open anymore or having to whitelist folders or exe.
I'm still a learner. But now, it's more fun helping people around me than tweaking my system. Maybe it's old age!
After years of testing and tweaking many different security products on Windows XP and 7, I've settled on H_C for Windows 10 because it's set-and-forget. I don't need the extra paid-for tools (like password managers) in security suites because I already use a collection of open-source tools, and I'm no longer inclined to spend a lot of time troubleshooting issues with 3rd-party products :)
 

Evjl's Rain

Level 45
Verified
Trusted
Content Creator
Malware Hunter
there are 3 major downsides of WD for me (dealbreakers):
- The latest technologies are not available for older Windows versions (older 10, win 7 and 8). I use windows 7 and 8.1. All of my PCs can't handle Windows 10 smoothly
- There is no way to optimize for better performance. Tweaks mostly increase resource usage
- When we mess with Windows Update services or tweak via registry -> WD stops updating properly and it's not easy to fix (although cloud is still working)

optional:
- Context scan has completely no integration with cloud + offline signatures are extremely poor/outdated -> this makes periodic or on-demand scans next to useless
=> open the folder you want to scan and let WD's realtime protection scans it automatically -> this has cloud integration
 
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SeriousHoax

Level 29
Verified
Malware Tester
Btw, Microsoft has added the option to enable PUP protection from the UI which is currently available in Windows Insider builds.
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SeriousHoax

Level 29
Verified
Malware Tester
Finally! It took them a long time.
Another feature, Windows Defender sandbox mode the feature which puts Windows Defender itself in a sandbox is also enabled by default in Windows Insider builds but it's still extremely buggy. When I tested, it couldn't delete most of the threats even though Protection History showed it did. It kept detecting those threats every time I entered the folder. So it needs work and not going to be enabled any time soon I think.
 
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