Advice Request Is Windows 7 Really Outdated?

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Exterminator

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Microsoft is trying to convince everyone to upgrade to Windows 10, and after offering the operating system free of charge in the first 12 months of availability, the company is now trying a different tactic aimed directly at Windows 7 users

The firm says that Windows 7 has “outdated security,” explaining in a blog post that only Windows 10 can deal with today’s security threats and no matter how hard you’d try, you still can’t make Windows 7 just as secure as this latest Windows version.

The post was made on the company’s German blog, which is a bit surprising given that no English version was published, but it still shows that Microsoft is already preparing its arsenal for moving users off Windows 7.

“Windows 7 is based on outdated security architecture,” Microsoft says. “Companies and users who won’t upgrade from Windows 7 within the next three years are facing enormous dangers.”

Windows 7 end of support
Judging from third-party data provided by market research firms, Windows 7 continues to be the number one operating system on the desktop, despite the aggressive push for Windows 10.

Windows 7 is now running on nearly 48 percent of PCs worldwide, while Windows 10 is the runner-up with about 24 percent. While Windows 7 indeed lost market share because of the arrival of Windows 10, it’s still the dominant operating system on the desktop, running on nearly 1 in 2 PCs across the globe.

With Windows 7 support coming to an end in January 2020, Microsoft doesn’t want to experience another Windows XP moment, so it’s starting the struggle to upgrade users a lot earlier. Although Windows XP no longer receives updates since 2014, it’s still running on 9 percent of the world’s PCs.
 

Stas

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RAM usage has nothing to do with light or not. This the typical mistake common/beginner users makes.
RAM is supposed to be used, because it is faster than writing on Pagefile or Swap (aka the portion used on the HDD to recuperate the excess datas if you run short of RAM ) . You can see it with ESET which load all his signatures in RAM instead of the HDD, that makes ESET footprint very light.

This is the same behavior as users who put the whole Windows into RAM Disk , Windows becomes faster.



How to Create a 10 GB/s RAM Disk in Windows - TekRevue

Lightness is based on the speed of accessed and computed datas.

Window,s to operate properly, must have at least 50% or more RAM free , what makes Windows sluggish isn't windows itself, but all the applications/background tasks devouring the RAM needed by Windows. It is why i disable many Windows' services on low end machines. Less process eating RAM , faster Windows is; and Windows 10 is quite better in managing resources usage compared to Windows 7.
Like I said then you'll run 3rd party programs the ram will decreases and win 10 wont have enough Ram to run smoothly.
 
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Rolo

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RAM usage has nothing to do with light or not.
Yes, it does. The beginner mistake is to use that metric out of context, which is what you're contending with and not relevant here.
The more RAM an OS uses, the less RAM available for applications (what the OS is there for; we don't run Windows to run Windows; we run Windows to run software).

This is the same behavior as users who put the whole Windows into RAM Disk , Windows becomes faster.
Anyone who does that has no idea how Windows works or how they are hindering its performance.

Besides, you've gone completely off the topic's context here, which is 10 vs. 7 on old machines--machines that aren't going to have RAM to create a RAMdisk. Rather than buy memory for a trick that was effective in 1990, buy an SSD (still not for a 10+-year old computer though).


Lightness is based on the speed of accessed and computed datas.

Performance ("lightness") is a culmination of all of the above, to include the OS's ability to adapt to it's user--a capability that Microsoft has been continuously developing. Performance is largely a function of efficiency and dropping Aero alone was a boost to efficiency.

That's performance; we didn't even touch security, which, in a security forum would be paramount. Given that 7 doesn't even have the capability to implement security features 10 has, yes, again, it is outdated.

Not as much as xp/Vista but still outdated nonetheless. "Outdated" doesn't mean useless, though, so let's not read into things.
 
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tim one

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Honestly I always think that an operating system has to bring me where I want, without too many problems.
Windows 10 always find some way to consume resources, such as
Windows Modules Installer Worker that uses values as the 99% CPU.This problem causes considerable slowing down on my system right from the start up, and to realize the problem just open the Task Manager. The problem of Windows Modules Installer Worker often occurs because there are several applications open in contrast, so it seems.
I don't remember similar issues with Windows 7.
 

tonibalas

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I know that the the thread is if W7 is outdated but i have another question.
On an old laptop like mine's with 4gb ram ddr2 800 mhz and cpu core 2 duo P8400 is it better to run W7 or W10?
If i remember correctly W7 was putting less strain on my laptop.
W10 starts faster but the fan doesn't seem to stop working.
Your opinion please:)
 
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tim one

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I know that the the thread is if W7 is outdated but i have another question.
On an old laptop like mine's with 4gb ram ddr2 800 mhz and cpu core 2 duo P8400 is it better to run W7 or W10?
If i remember correctly W7 was putting less strain on my laptop.
W10 starts faster but the fan doesn't seem to stop working.
Your opinion please:)
I am running W10 on my laptop and the specs are very similar to yours, only the processor with a slightly higher frequency.
If we consider the problem mentioned above, then I can't use the system, fan continuously working and I have to restart and then the situation normalizes.
Sometimes the PC works perfectly without any slowdowns, it depends.
 
W

Wave

windows 7 is less secure if it is used of this way:
No, the actual functionality embedded within the kernel is outdated in terms of security practices. Simple things like vulnerable system processes makes a big difference when it comes to exploitation and bypassing security products. ';)

Anyway moving away from system processes, it's just the differences between security compared to Windows 10... The things I can do on Windows 7 which I cannot do as easily on Windows 7... Very nice.

As for Windows XP, it's a walk in the park once you've got your code running. You can even hook the System Service Dispatch Table from user-mode through memory manipulation (saw it in an online PDF from like 2009 or something a few years back). Maybe it was patched through Patch Tuesday when XP was supported but I doubt it... It could be done slightly differently on Vista originally as well, but they patched that one.
 
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tonibalas

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@tim one i see what you mean.
That's why i am considering to downgrade to W7 or to dual boot W10 and W7.
Just to keep the laptop up and running as long as possible;)
W10 seems to really stress my laptop:(
 

Sana

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Yes, sadly I lost my laptop after 4.5 years of use. Most likely to be overheating! Never buying mid/high-end laptops, celeron and the like should just be fine :)

Edit: Btw, I did end up upgrading the RAM from 6gb to 8gb and a HDD with SSD just for Windows 10.
 
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Like I said then you'll run 3rd party programs the ram will decreases and Windows 10 wont have enough Ram to run smoothly.
Windows used unused memory and give priority to Applications, if not enough RAM , then windows will use pagefile.


Install Windows XP on a computer and you’ll probably see it using several hundred megabytes of memory when the system is idle. Install Windows 7 on that same computer and you’ll likely see Windows 7 using several gigabytes of memory in the same situation.
So what’s going on? Is Windows XP just a lighter, faster operating system? Are modern operating systems bloated and wasteful with memory? Not quite.
RAM is more plentiful than it was when Windows XP was the shiny new operating system, and modern operating systems take advantage of it. Modern operating systems use your computer’s RAM as a cache for frequently accessed files and program data.
In Windows, this feature is known as SuperFetch, which was introduced in Windows Vista. SuperFetch watches the applications you use and loads commonly-used application files and libraries into your computer’s RAM before you need them. When you launch an application, Windows loads the application’s files from your RAM instead of reading them from disk, which is a slow process. This speeds up application launching and generally makes your computer faster and more responsive.

Why It’s Good That Your Computer’s RAM Is Full

you want compare things :

1- use Win7 with the average available hardware when it was released (Pentium 3, 2-4gb RAM), check the resources usage and lightness.
2- compare win10 with the average hardware at the moment (mostly i5-i7, 6-16gb RAm), check the resources usage and lightness

You dont compare modern OS on old hardware, and old OS on modern hardware. are you serious?
run a modern game in a Celeron , it won't even start. You must compare things properly. this is what hardware requirements are made for; and those mentioned by MS are the absolute minimum ones to run Windows not to have a blazing fast Windows; you must at least double the amount of RAM and use a higher cpu.

Yes, it does. The beginner mistake is to use that metric out of context, which is what you're contending with and not relevant here.
The more RAM an OS uses, the less RAM available for applications (what the OS is there for; we don't run Windows to run Windows; we run Windows to run software).

yes Theorically, now how many open applications you open at same times 20? I barely have 2-3 open at same time.
i have only 6gb RAM and i barely goes above 50% RAM usage with Chrome and Words open. the Win10 alone use 20-30%. so no, OS RAM usage doesn't matter if you know how to use your OS. what matter is the hardware specifications on where you put the said OS.

Anyone who does that has no idea how Windows works or how they are hindering its performance.
you misunderstood me, i pointed the article to demonstrate than RAM is faster and is made to be used. However you have some interesting uses from RAM Disk, especially in term of privacy or security (because datas won't stay once the computer is shut down) ; but this is another topic.
if i want pure performance, i personally won't use a software-made RAM disk, but rather a RAM-based SSD for maximal speed (if i could afford it) .

Besides, you've gone completely off the topic's context here, which is 10 vs. 7 on old machines
which is itself irrelevant, because you don't compare them on old machines as i said above, you compare them based on hardware available at the moment the OS was released.
Rather than buy memory for a trick that was effective in 1990, buy an SSD (still not for a 10+-year old computer though).
indeed as you said SSD if your hardware can support it..., if you don't ? buy RAM, anyway you still have some use with software RAM Disk. Not saying modern RAM transfert speed is 10-15 times faster than a modern SSD.

Performance ("lightness") is a culmination of all of the above, to include the OS's ability to adapt to it's user--a capability that Microsoft has been continuously developing. Performance is largely a function of efficiency and dropping Aero alone was a boost to efficiency.

OS adapt to the user? the user has to adapt to what the OS can manage. If i take your statement to the letter, so i can open all my application, run 20 high graphic games, 1000 browser tabs , and expect my OS to deliver me fast performance...will never happen.
MS just calibers Windows' performance based on the applications used (to a certain limit), but at the end it is like everything , it is the user decisions that affect the OS; like it is the user decision that affect how the security of the OS will be effective or not.
stupid user , bad results.

That's performance; we didn't even touch security, which, in a security forum would be paramount. Given that 7 doesn't even have the capability to implement security features 10 has, yes, again, it is outdated.
on this i agree, win7 is weaker compared to win10 in term of security.
 
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shukla44

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Look for your specific drivers for Windows 10 or for people who got your hardware working properly on Windows 10. Often, Windows 8.1 drivers will work just fine (not unlike some Vista drivers working on 7). Additionally, some manufacturers took a while to release Windows 10 drivers (e.g. Creative Labs).

My point is: don't let software tell you as it's only going to base its recommendation on the user not having to do anything, not whether your hardware won't work effectively at all.

Thanks for your advice. But you are giving this advice on general approach. My situation is a little different - My sound card & graphic card is super out-dated, legacy (if you will), I found the drivers for win7 after so many hours of search. There is no win8/8.1 supported drivers available for my hardware, Neither am i going to research on my drivers on how to make it work.

Before auto-upgrading to win10 through GWX app, i check my hardware if it was compatible or not, it showed all will work well, but after the upgrade, no sound or graphic settings. Didn't want to install the default motherboard sound & graphic drivers so reverted to win7 again through windows restore image(as the restoring option during the duration of 1 month corrupted my windows).
 
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Sana

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Planned obsolescence! New software would need new hardware and vice versa. There can be numerous bottlenecks within a system. Having a floppy disk drive (don't even know if you can install one or find one), can bring down the fastest computer on the planet for a few seconds :p

Not the pro here on Linux, but I'm sure it might be worth a try if you still want to use the old PC. Then again you'd have to get used to all the new apps.

Or you could try Windows 10 IoT Core - a slimmed-down version of the OS and NOT exactly what you expect from normal Windows. Windows 10 on the Raspberry Pi: What you need to know - TechRepublic

bottleneck.png
 
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Planned obsolescence! New software would need new hardware and vice versa.
exact, all are marketed plans like gaming console and games. I wonder why people desperately want use modern OS on old hardware. just use the OS that fit to the hardware.


Not the pro here on Linux, but I'm sure it might be worth a try if you still want to use the old Pc. Then again you'd have to get used to all the new apps.

and not every Linux. Common popular Linux as a bit faster sure, but not excessively unless you use lightweight and stripped version (XFCE , etc...) which are exactly same as Win98/XP GUI...
 
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StriderHunterX

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While I love Windows 10 and the new things it has brought(That I'm still discovering...:eek:), I will still support and recommend Windows 7.

It's stability and reliability is great.As long as it's protected and updated,it won't fail you....and if you're here,you know about protection.;)
 
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While I love Windows 10 and the new things it has brought(That I'm still discovering...:eek:), I will still support and recommend Windows 7.

It's stability and reliability is great.As long as it's protected and updated,it won't fail you....and if you're here,you know about protection.;)
by definition an OS shouldn't need to be protected, it should be secure by default; now since Windows is always targeted, making it secure is quite a difficult job unless rewriting it from scratch with a multi-user separation model (a la Linux).

Win7 (home) is by default very weak in term of security compared to Win10. So i won't advise Average Joe to stay on Win7 but rather move to the most "secured-by-default" OS.
 
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Evjl's Rain

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I'm using windows 10 home for my main laptop because it was shipped with windows 8 -> updated to 10

I installed windows 7 Pro for 2 other machines: 1 desktop with 1Gb of RAM and the other laptop with 4Gb of RAM.

All machines are heavily tweaked. The fact is, the old i5 laptop with 4Gb of RAM + W7 runs smoother than my i7 laptop in W10 with 8Gb RAM. It reponds instantly to my clicks while the one with W10 has some slight delay. I'm very sensitive to any small change in my system performance

W10 requires at least 6Gb of RAM of run smoothly. The performance of W10 on my 4Gb RAM laptop was unacceptable. W8.1 ran much much faster. Finally, I installed w7 on it and now it's lightning fast

In terms of security, W10 is the best but usability and performance are a lot more important for me. I backup all my important data so I have nothing to lose in my machines
 
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In terms of security, W10 is the best but usability and performance are a lot more important for me. I backup all my important data so I have nothing to lose in my machines

Which is a good reason , as i always said: people must use what fit their needs, not what say other people.
 

Winter Soldier

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Windows 10 here.
I agree with the fact that between about three years, Windows 7 will be obsolete due to the end of support and this means that any vulnerabilities will not be patched.
But perhaps MS pushes the times, by considering that those who use Windows 7 still has three years of "protection".
I used W7 for many years without problems, well protected by third-party products: Emsisoft mainly and never a problem.
Windows 10 kernel and system implementations absolutely are a +1 in security terms, but however, I always entrust my protection to third-party applications.
 
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Wave

Windows 10 here.
I agree with the fact that between about three years, Windows 7 will be obsolete due to the end of support and this means that any vulnerabilities will not be patched.
But perhaps MS pushes the times, by considering that those who use Windows 7 still has three years of "protection".
I used W7 for many years without problems, well protected by third-party products: Emsisoft mainly and never a problem.
Windows 10 kernel and system implementations absolutely are a +1 in security terms, but however, I always entrust my protection to third-party applications.
On Windows 7 those third-party applications can have their self-protection bypassed relatively easily since system processes like csrss.exe are vulnerable to abuse, whereas on Windows 10, processes like csrss.exe cannot be injected into from user-mode. ;)
 

Winter Soldier

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On Windows 7 those third-party applications can have their self-protection bypassed relatively easily since system processes like csrss.exe are vulnerable to abuse, whereas on Windows 10, processes like csrss.exe cannot be injected into from user-mode. ;)
Thanks for pointing out that :)

Indeed, I recall an old trojan that tried to create its copies with the name csrss.exe in the System32 folder, even though in this directory was already present the original csrss.exe file.
So it did a search for the csrss.exe file trying to kill and replace it, also trying to get administration and debugger privileges.
But sometimes this process caused BSOD :D
 
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Wave

Thanks for pointing out that :)

Indeed, I recall an old trojan that tried to create its copies with the name csrss.exe in the System32 folder, even though in this directory was already present the original csrss.exe file.
So it did a search for the csrss.exe file trying to kill and replace it, also trying to get administration and debugger privileges.
But sometimes this process caused BSOD :D
No I mean that csrss.exe obtains a handle for every newly executed process, therefore if you can get code execution from within the address space of crss.exe (e.g. since it's a system process you'll need to create the remote thread via ntdll.dll!RtlCreateUserThread) then you can search for the opened handles and once you find the one for the AV product being used, pass it in as the parameter for NtTerminateProcess.

Since you cannot patch the kernel on x64 systems of Windows since Vista and on-wards, the most secure and reliable self-protection mechanism would be through the usage of kernel-mode callbacks (to be precise, popular AV products use ObRegisterCallbacks). The kernel-mode callback, ObRegisterCallbacks, will allow you to prevent a handle from being obtained to the process/es you wish to protect for both handle creation and duplicaton. However, of course csrss.exe will be an exception since it's required to obtain the handles to all new process start-ups.

Therefore, since Windows 7 does not implement any functionality to protect system processes like csrss.exe, all you need to do is enable debugging rights (SeDebugPrivilege) and then you can open a handle to csrss.exe. Whereas, on Windows 10, doing this from user-mode will result in 0xC0000022 (STATUS_ACCESS_DENIED) because the handle with the requested access rights will simply be refused.

On top of this, Windows 10 contains many PatchGuard/Kernel Patch Protection improvements, plus new functionality like the system-wide SmartScreen filter which is extremely beneficial.

Overall, Windows 10 is more secure. :)
 
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