Microsoft Updates - Quality Control Concerns

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Apple have messed up badly in the past (e.g. in terms of security - like hard-coded password bypasses) but they've improved a lot. Usually, there is minimal hassle compared to Windows when it comes to updates, in my opinion.

One thing I've never ever heard is, "An Apple update for my Mac has broken it!".

I think the Q&A testing in Apple has proven to be a lot more effective. They have millions of customers and it seems they rarely screw up on a level high enough to cause breakages? At-least I do not hear of such events. Either such breakage issues on Apple products because of Apple aren't prevalent enough for the media to burst a bubble about it, or it just rarely happens.

Microsoft aside, Apple have their own issues, like trying to sue people over censorship control (e.g. hide news stories from the media - like the one about the malicious chips from China) and having repair equipment seized from people by the U.S government because some people wanted to offer others a chance to get Apple product repairs when Apple refused to do so (such events are recent).
Is extremely unfair to compare Microsoft and Apple, when:
  • Apple works in a closed ecosystem (with limited hardware and software).
  • Microsoft works in an open ecosystem (with a huge range of hardware and software).
If Apple can't manage updates in a closed ecosystem, I can't imagine them manage an open ecosystem. As already said before most of the Update issues on Windows are caused by third-parties (both in Software and Hardware).
 

Andy Ful

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But don't ordinary people's PCs get much infected less now than in the year 2000?
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I doubt it. There are far more computers and malc0ders now than in the year 2000. But, not ignoring people security is a pretty new strategy for M$ (it begins with Windows 8), after many years of developing Windows.
Windows OS is a winning strategy rooted in the XX century. Both M$ and partially the customers are responsible for its actual shape. If people would prefer the 'solid/safe/not cheap' solutions, then Apple would be a winner.
 

Andy Ful

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Is extremely unfair to compare Microsoft and Apple, when:
  • Apple works in a closed ecosystem (with limited hardware and software).
  • Microsoft works in an open ecosystem (with a huge range of hardware and software).
If Apple can't manage updates in a closed ecosystem, I can't imagine them manage an open ecosystem. As already said before most of the Update issues on Windows are caused by third-parties (both in Software and Hardware).
Apple and M$ can be compared on the strategic level, and the winner is M$.
I think that everyone on MT could agree with the cause of the broken updates that you mentioned.
The problem is that many people demand from OS creator to make the product that will not destroy their data after update, if everything worked well before update. The green part ot the sentence is very important!
 

bribon77

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M $ If I wanted to make a perfect system, I think it has the ability to do it. But he would lose his charm. And many people would be out of work.:giggle:
 
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oldschool

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M $ If I wanted to make a perfect system, I think it has the ability to do it. But he would lose his charm. And many people would be out of work.:giggle:

And there would be no MalwareTips! Can you imagine such a world? We'd have nothing to explore, learn, not learn, no friends to follow or ignore and most important - nothing to b**ch about! :LOL: I don't want to live in a perfect world. I like my world with all its imperfections - although some of them are truly horrible!
 

bribon77

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And there would be no MalwareTips! Can you imagine such a world? We'd have nothing to explore, learn, not learn, no friends to follow or ignore and most important - nothing to b**ch about! :LOL: I don't want to live in a perfect world. I like my world with all its imperfections - although some of them are truly horrible!
It would be boring.:p
 
D

Deleted Member 3a5v73x

Is extremely unfair to compare Microsoft and Apple, when:
  • Apple works in a closed ecosystem (with limited hardware and software).
  • Microsoft works in an open ecosystem (with a huge range of hardware and software).
If Apple can't manage updates in a closed ecosystem, I can't imagine them manage an open ecosystem. As already said before most of the Update issues on Windows are caused by third-parties (both in Software and Hardware).
Do you work at the computer repair shop?
 

Vasudev

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We can take a look at the recent files deleted problem, it was actually caused by user error. When using KFR you're not supposed to keep using the old folders, in fact those folders remained behind due to a bug on Windows 10.

Anyone who lost files probably doesn't know KFR stands for Known Folder Redirection.

In your particular case was probably caused by third-party software/hardware, like we've seen in the past with Avast, HP and Samsung problems.
But most users are upgrading from W7/W8.1/W10 that way. I did it and didn't face any issue on v1607,v1703 and v1803. I have been blocking v1809 ever since.

but there's nothing that proves W10 is more problematic than any previous version of Windows, in fact it has become more stable (compared to W7).
W10 as an OS is not a problem its the damn updates that break 3rd party apps which we use daily even though 3rd party says MSFT has certified that SW is compatible with W10 version xxxx.
That statement simply is not accurate.
Completely Agree with you! If W10 breaks due to User files/apps then the OS must be killed off just like Windows Mobile and MSFT should focus on Azure ecosystem.
Sometimes I feel the new Win 10 updates/forced upgrades are utter garbage with new emoji's with PC users will never use. I don't want a different looking emoji to be sent to recipients. For example, :) turning into :mad::devil:
 
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Deleted Member 3a5v73x

So I end up managing Windows Computers in multiple companies, and none of them has complaints about Windows (contrary to popular believe).
What are the core secrets to keep endpoint devices with Windows in companies running so smooth? Are you saying that Windows problems what others companies encounter are the problem of IT specialists who might be low?
 
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What are the core secrets to keep endpoint devices with Windows in companies running so smooth? Are you saying that Windows problems what others companies encounter are the problem of IT specialists who might be low?
There are many IT Engineers who don't even know the difference between MBR and GPT, so it's safe to say the education system doesn't work.
All I learned about IT was self-taught, the rest at work, the only thing I learned while studying was letters (read & write), even programming courses are lacking.

I saw many Engineers the last 4y that fail to install Windows, due to not knowing about the UEFI/GTP Partition Rules, this is what happens when ITs fail to constantly evolve and learn (most of them will just blame Microsoft as always, when it's them who lack knowledge).
So there's no secret to keeping Windows running smooth on companies, knowing what you doing and the client needs is enough, setting everything properly and knowing how to fix common bugs is part of the job.

PS: Updates are not forced/automatic on the Enterprise, they're manually installed and in bulk across the devices (testing is and should be done on a single machine to pinpoint any issues and fix them, before major deployment).
 

Andy Ful

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W10 as an OS is not a problem its the damn updates that break 3rd party apps which we use daily even though 3rd party says MSFT has certified that SW is compatible with W10 version xxxx.
...
(y)(y)
That is damn truth ... especially when the users are forced to update. The Windows OS is an extraordinary product. It is not like TV or refrigerator. Refrigerator manufacturers do not force customers to replace the working appliance with another one that can freeze well some popular products, but other products only with probability 1/2.:emoji_pray:
The important question is, why the Windows 10 Home users are forced to make updates. The answer "they are stupid" is not the right one.
 
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Eddie Morra

W10 as an OS is not a problem its the damn updates that break 3rd party apps which we use daily even though 3rd party says MSFT has certified that SW is compatible with W10 version xxxx.
It's even worse when documented things are randomly changed out of the blue (like documented APIs becoming deprecated and made obsolete) without anyone actually being notified of such behaviour.

Sometimes, I'll be going through some documentation, and magically stumble on the fact that a well-known and commonly-used API has just been made obsolete out of the blue... and as-per-usual, there'll be no real explanation as to why this was the case (which doesn't help anyone either - it would be nice to know why the API was made obsolete to improve knowledge and extend experience), and another API will be shilled instead. How is anyone else who are already using the now-obsolete API supposed to know about this if they aren't notified? It isn't feasible for developers of large software-projects to re-check the same documentation every day of every week when they are using a variety of different APIs, sometimes in the hundreds or thousands. I doubt many here have worked on projects which consist of hundreds of thousands of lines of code (through a variety of different languages) or even in the millions, but I certainly have, and I can tell you right now that it isn't feasible.

It's a bit like the privacy policies which state they have the right to be updated at any moment without the user being notified about the changes. It just isn't feasible for the user to re-read the entire privacy policy every hour of every day just in case it is updated out of the blue.

Microsoft need a proper system for developers where they can view a summary of internal changes for anything that is to do with something Microsoft have in the past documented and officially vouched/supported. And this "proper system" should not be exclusive to specific companies or individuals, but be open to everyone and everywhere. Completely free of charge.

Randomly updating documentation or changing documented things without updating the documenting causes third-party software to have more issues than they may already have, which in turn screws things up for the rest of us. A bit like how the lack of documentation for AMSI led everyone apart from Microsoft to be unable to use AMSI to its full potential (at-least without the difficulty of having to manually spend time reverse-engineering the whole implementation).

Moving back to Microsoft and user-feedback, there's not much point in having feedback systems when you aren't going to take it on-board. The whole point of a feedback system is to get insight on what your customers actually want from you and to adapt accordingly to keep the customers happy.
 
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Andy Ful

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Microsoft need a proper system for developers where they can view a summary of internal changes for anything that is to do with something Microsoft have in the past documented and officially vouched/supported. And this "proper system" should not be exclusive to specific companies or individuals, but be open to everyone and everywhere. Completely free of charge.
...
Moving back to Microsoft and user-feedback, there's not much point in having feedback systems when you aren't going to take it on-board. The whole point of a feedback system is to get insight on what your customers actually want from you and to adapt accordingly to keep the customers happy.
We can forget about the above.
  1. M$ will say that making the full documentation available, will make Windows vulnerable, too.
  2. The feedback system works only in the M$ direction. They are going to accept those solutions which can match their corporate strategy. The true customers are not home users and software developers, but rather Enterprises and Institutions.
  3. The true Windows OS is Windows Enterprise edition or Windows Server (customers connected to the big local networks). The other versions (Home, Pro, Education) are just stripped versions of the Enterprise edition. The Home edition could be called a Shareware edition.
Personally, I could not blame M$ for their strategy. But unfortunately, all of this leave too much space for shortcomings, like obsolete APIs, quick & forced updates, etc.
Though, some things can be considered as improvements, like for example, Insider Program, Bug Bounty Programs, Coordinated Malware Eradication, Microsoft Virus Initiative, Virus Information Alliance, File Submission for Software Developers, etc.
 
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